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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 1:06 PM   
Luchnia


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCFlyerDan

I too, love Zenoah's, but they really aren't for the airframe that the OP asked about for his quesitons. IMHO, Zenoah's and DA's are the best out there for reliabiltiy and performance, and customer support, should you need it from them. I have owned BME's, Zenoah, ZDZ, DA, and worked on just about all of the Chinese junk that my students have bought, one even had a Robi conversion that really never produced power. There is a little .17 Chinese gas engine that is being sold on the Bay and other places! Pure junk, had one student get one of those...it now sits in the closet as a boat anchor. It never ran right, or produced power, no matter how long he and I worked with it. AND NO customer support!!! I go to the field to fly, not to tinker with junk. As I have said before, I am a turbine CD/gas Instructor that is tired of messing with the junk that shows up, because of guys trying to save a hundred or two here and there. Good Luck!

PS- I have an Italian Student that bought one of the new Mintor .38's. Beautiful designed engine. During break in, and yes we were running it very rich, the inside of the crank, and piston started to come apart. After only 10-12 flights, the engine is back at Top Dawg Aviation for repairs. Now, the Student did find out that it was in the production of the engine, and Mintor had issues with the .33 and .38's. But, it is considered an off brand here in the USA. He bought it, because he is Italian. Enough said. I have another student that we just started his Evo-.45....so far, so good! But, another student had an Evo-.26 or .35 and the magnet was bad on the sensor...never had that happen before, but now I have seen it.


It seems you have had some problems and not sure why. Most are randon though and not just because an engine is built in a foreign land. In the clubs I am a member at your view of problems would not fit. We fly everything from Zenoah to "mock" engines without a name. The irony is that DLE and some others have performed flawlessly with countless flights at a much cheaper cost to the modeler.

The 50/50 rule simply has not been applicable in the clubs I belong to. There have been random failures and no more or less than with any manufacturer. The DLEs have been outstanding in performance and reliability and if you buy from Tower Hobbies you get top level support. We just don't have many engine failures at all.

I think DA engines are fantastic engines, but well paid for to get that quality. Do I think it is that much difference in quality and performance than a comparible DLE for the average flyer? No way. What is really cool, is you can almost buy two DLEs and put a second plane up in the air!

Of which case I did just that. I went with DLE savings and was able to scratch a few more funds together and have two planes flying instead of socking all the money into one engine and only have one plane. To each his own though - different strokes for different folks (pun intended)

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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 1:10 PM   
RCFlyerDan


 

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Status: offline 		It is because we fly year around down here in Florida, so, we are exposed to more then just the "summer" flyer up North. It is also, because I am the "go to guy" at the fields that I fly, due to my experience level and I am asked to maiden and help teach guys that are new to gas or turbine. So, I am exposed more then the "Sunday, Summer flyer" of up North.

< Message edited by RCFlyerDan -- 11/2/2012 1:38 PM >


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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 1:28 PM   
RCFlyerDan


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCFlyerDan


quote:

ORIGINAL: bgw45


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCFlyerDan

Let's put it this way.......Do you want to go to the flying field and fly? Or do you want to go to the flying field and have a 50/50 chance of having issues from a Chinese engine? How much is reliablity worth to you? Let me say too, that I do not work or get any benefit from DA, I am just a turbine and gas instructor(look at my gallery) that is tired of the crap engines that guys show up with at the field, and expect them to work perfectly. I will say, that you do have a 50/50 chance of getting a good Chinese engine, as some have, but if you buy DA, you will have a 100% chance to have an excellent engine. The DA-50 has been out now for maybe ten years? So, all issues are gone on the newer models. DA did have initial issues with the carb on the earlier 50's, but those have been resolved. IF you buy a DA, and you have an issue at the field, chances are good that it is operator error! With Chinese, you have a 50/50 chance that it is operator error or an engine/ignition issue. I have been flying r/c since I was 11 years old, and will be 53 in December.....I have seen it.


I have 4 DLE55s. According to you two of them should be bad, but not so. .

Maybe........just maybe..........some other poor sucker got the other 4.......lol


Another thought, is even if it isn't 50/50 chance, as someone,the OP, that is new to gas, doesn't know them, would you want your first engine to be even 10% chance of the bad engines that come out of poor production and design?


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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 2:09 PM   
flyinwalenda


 

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Status: offline 		So because we fly "up North" and   "only  on Sundays in the summer" our conclusions on gasoline engines can't be trusted ?
That's rich !  
What's next......telling us to throw away our transmitter mitts, snow skis and pontoons along with our 40+ years experience on RC gas engines ?


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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 3:53 PM   
Rocketman612



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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCFlyerDan

It is because we fly year around down here in Florida, so, we are exposed to more then just the ''summer'' flyer up North. It is also, because I am the ''go to guy'' at the fields that I fly, due to my experience level and I am asked to maiden and help teach guys that are new to gas or turbine. So, I am exposed more then the ''Sunday, Summer flyer'' of up North.



Dan,
We fly "year round" here in Bama too and the DLE's have a better than 50% performance rate. I have setup 4 of these for a friend and all have been good. The other 5 or so in the club also were good.

What is not mentioned is how we Prop, Tune and treat these engines and the oil used along with the ratio mixed. Over propping, trying to get every last rpm, poor cooling and the wrong oil or mix has killed as many DA's, Zenoah's as DLE's.

As I said in my earlier post my Patty has a DA 50 that has been Flawless from day one. Broken in with Pennzoil air cooled at 32 to 1 for 4gal before going to 50 to 1. earlier this year switched over to Redline 2 stroke racing synthetic at 50 to 1. The DLE's in our club treated similarly have done well. Several members have commented that my DA does pull harder than the DLE and that always brings a smile to my face.

I stand by my prior post if you have the money the DA is the choice but if your needing to save a few hundred dollars and want a steady reliable engine the DLE 55 is a good option no matter what part of the country you live in.

Pete

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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 4:23 PM   
hugger-4641



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Status: offline 		No one has beat up the OP yet over this one yet, which is good, but I'll give a gentle correction. "Motors" are electric, If it burns gas or other fuel, it is an "Engine" .   

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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 5:08 PM   
flyinwalenda


 

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Status: offline 		I agree if you want to drop the money on an expensive engine and/or don't have the expertise or don't want to spend the time doing a little work on engines then fine,but don't knock the guys who have done it successfully.  Yes as stated , there is some junk out there but  it's been documented of what it is and where to stay away from. Otherwise most "cheaper" engines only need a little modification and some not much at all to be a decent performer and reliable .  I built a Ryobi that hauls around a 13lb biplane with authority and it's reliable while some guys clam they could never get them to run well at all.
If you aren't comfortable doing that kind of work then spend the bigger bucks and buy one that will work right out of the box. Just don't label the less expensive engines as all junk and no one can make then run right. It's just not so.


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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 5:19 PM   
Truckracer


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hugger-4641

No one has beat up the OP yet over this one yet, which is good, but I'll give a gentle correction. ''Motors'' are electric, If it burns gas or other fuel, it is an ''Engine'' .   

While from a technical standpoint you are correct, I have known many auto racers, professional and amateur who call that power producing machine under the hood a "motor". And then there are "outboard motors" on boats, etc. The list is long.So I guess it really doesn't mean a hoot whether you call a gas engine a motor or an engine. In general conversation, written or spoken, we all know what is being discussed.

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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 5:49 PM   
RCFlyerDan


 

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ORIGINAL: flyinwalenda

So because we fly ''up North'' and   ''only  on Sundays in the summer'' our conclusions on gasoline engines can't be trusted ?
That's rich !  
What's next......telling us to throw away our transmitter mitts, snow skis and pontoons along with our 40+ years experience on RC gas engines ?


I never said that your conclusions couldn't be trusted, just saying that because we fly more in the South(including AL) in general, chances are good that we have seen more issues, especially if you instruct. Who in here is regularly instructing? You know? I will appoligize for the 50/50 comment. I did generalize to much, but I said earlier, do you want to even be the one person in 100 that got the bad engine. I went flying Wednesday, maiden a Comp-ARF Extra with a DA-50. Perfect set up, no issues. Then flew today. Don't think you did that this week in PA? So, there is two more days of experience then you have this year. In Full Scale Plane, the pilot calls this a logbook of experience. I too, have been flying them since I was 11, but really don't think gas engines in R/C has been around 40 years.....glow...yes. I didn't really get into gas until the late 90's, and not sure of the history of when the first r/c gas engine was stuck on an r/c plane? But, we aren't here to arugue that point. I am just recommending from my experience level and IMHO to answer the OP of what to buy? And, yes, it is good no one has said anything neg about the OP. He is just here to learn.

To the other guy's post. I am not knocking the guys' whom have had success with the variations of engines out there. I am knocking the quality of workmenship coming out of the foreign countries, primarily China, and this isn't political either, it is quality of manufacturing that is being pond off to us.

To the guy who talked about taking all of the Chinese made stuff off the market here , ARF's, engines, electronic, what do we have here left in the States? I don't want to answer that question, because that does get political and how as Americans', we want to be paid top dollar for our labor, but yet, when we want to buy something, we don't want to pay for it, and find it as cheap as possible?.......hence, China. But, in reality, it would be the next cheapest country out there who would subcontract from all of the manufacturers here in the States that are contracting out those ARF, etc.

Also, Gentlemen, I don't think in any of my post that I have name a specific manufacture's engine that was bad, just that they are manufactured in China. I also never said that I couldn't get them to run for the student, just that there seemed to always be issues with the Chinese engines. I have only recommended what I would personally buy and own.
Again Gentlemen, this is all just IMHO>>>>>>

< Message edited by RCFlyerDan -- 11/2/2012 8:30 PM >


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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 10:00 PM   
Luchnia


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hugger-4641

No one has beat up the OP yet over this one yet, which is good, but I'll give a gentle correction. ''Motors'' are electric, If it burns gas or other fuel, it is an ''Engine'' .   


What about a hydraulic motor? It is not electric.

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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 10:18 PM   
flyinwalenda


 

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Status: offline 		I flew yesterday and today. So what is the price of tea in China ?
Again, how does flying anywhere other than Florida  have a bearing on  knowing (or not) anything about building, tuning gasoline engines or having opinions on such? So what's next, telling the OP he has to move to Fl in order to get the most out of his new gas engine?


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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 10:57 PM   
RCFlyerDan


 

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ORIGINAL: flyinwalenda

I flew yesterday and today.


So, you flew your gas airplane outside in low 40's yesterday and today. Part of that time you got some rain too? Your a better man then I for the love of aviation.


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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 11:09 PM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: offline 		time to turn the channel............................................................................... .     .............. ............... ..............................................................................................................................................................

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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/2/2012 11:10 PM   
RCFlyerDan


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you, I agree. Good Luck to the OP on your engine! Take care! Dan


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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/3/2012 5:35 AM   
gard72977


 

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Status: offline 		This plane is 259.99 from tower with the discount code. I would not mind having one to fly aerobatics. I have a mintor 38cc. This is gonna end in me getting in trouble!!!!

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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/3/2012 10:54 PM   
Uncas


 

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Status: offline 		First you need to decide if you are going 50cc or 30-35cc. This plane falls in between those engine sizes. So think of which direction you are going for your next plane. There some great airframes out there in both directions.

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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/4/2012 6:16 AM   
bcchi


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flyinwalenda

So because we fly ''up North'' and   ''only  on Sundays in the summer'' our conclusions on gasoline engines can't be trusted ?
That's rich !  
What's next......telling us to throw away our transmitter mitts, snow skis and pontoons along with our 40+ years experience on RC gas engines ?


It is really bad weather here in Wyoming.Got fly all day today .Blue sky,no wind and about 65F.We all flew in short sleved shirts.
We had a flier move from Lander Wy to FL a few years ago he moved back to Lander said there was more flying days out of the year in Wy then in FL.We have very little wind here and little rain and snow.Most of the winter storms miss here in the valley.Flying tomorrow too. I have never seen it below -54 F in Riverton . Our winters are not nearly like they used to be. You no Globel warming.LOL
BCCHI. Grumpy no two. AMA 2500

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RE: New to gas what motor should I use - 11/11/2012 11:48 AM   
RCFlyerDan


 

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Status: offline 		Another DLE comes apart!! Surprise! Surprise!!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10299136/anchors_10299136/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#10299136


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