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Dangerous flyers II - 9/11/2003 1:43:47 PM   
Zpat



Posts: 558
Joined: 11/9/2002
From: Lima, OH,
Status: offline 		After my first post on dangerous flyers it seems the majority in this forum has concluded that these flyers need more instruction.
What better place to do it than right here.
I think I will talk about one of the most confusing things at our field and that is the traffic pattern.
The traffic pattern is set up to organize aircraft traffic around the flying field. It is flown in a rectangular pattern around the field.
When landing it consists of three legs. A downwind, which is parallel to the flying field and downwind or crosswind, a base, which is a 90 degree turn from downwind and final, which is another 90 degree turn in which you should be lined up with the runway.
A standard pattern is a left hand pattern. (All turns are left)
The wind will dictate the pattern. All take offs and landings will be into the wind.
If there is a direct crosswind across the runway, a left hand pattern will be observed.
Our field has an east and west direction, with the flight line on the north side.
If the wind is out of the east, southeast, northeast, the flight pattern is right hand (right hand turns).
If the wind is out of the west, northwest, southwest, the pattern will be left hand.
I think this may cover it.
Does anyone have more to add?
       Post #: 1

Does anyone have more to add? - 9/11/2003 3:13:40 PM   
causeitflies



Posts: 203
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Steubenville, OH, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Does anyone have more to add?


At some fields obstacles play a big role in the landing pattern. For instance trees or a hill at one end of the field may make a right hand pattern preferable.

_____________________________

Mark P
An Expert has made every mistake - A Master has made every mistake twice

(in reply to Zpat)
       Post #: 2

RE: Dangerous flyers II - 9/11/2003 4:10:46 PM  1 votes
Jim Branaum


 

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I think you have a valid idea, but your implementation might be improved. Let me share what I teach beginners as I think it fits the need a little bit better. See what you think.

At ANY new field this is the way to fly the correct pattern. I teach new flyers to always keep their nose pointed at their airplane since it turns out that until you have a couple years flying experience, most have tunnel vision.

Step 1 Get permission to stand on the centerline of the runway.

Step 2 Stand on the centerline of the runway with your shoulders pointing to the point on either side where the centerline hits the ends of the runway.

Step 3 Look (I get folks to put their arms up with the hand in a level blade position - pinkie down - and look over it) in a distance to see what is in line with that centerline on that side on the horizon. Do this for both sides! Make a point to do this while standing straight. In other words DO NOT twist your body.

Step 4 Move to a flight station and stand shoulders parallel to the runway centerline.

Step 5 Lift your arm up and point at the object identified in step 3 with your arm AND your nose. Check BOTH sides this way. That is the imaginary line you do not want to be behind with your airplane. I make a big point here of telling folks to notice the feeling of the neck muscles as it is much different from when they were on the centerline!

Step 6 Point your arm and nose 45 degrees from the departure direction. This is where you should turn to make the downwind. I tell my students to always climb straight out until they see daylight UNDER their airplane. This tends to keep them in the same county as the field.

Step 7 Repeat step 6 but for the approach direction. This is where you should turn base.

Step 8 Point your arm and nose about 15 or 20 degrees from the approach path and you have an idea where you should turn final.

Step 9 Ask the local flyers if there is any area (or obstacles) to be avoided and look to see which turn you need to adjust to comply. At one of my club fields, I have them turn base at 60 degrees.



Hope this helps

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to Zpat)
       Post #: 3

RE: Dangerous flyers II - 9/11/2003 6:07:16 PM  1 votes
Cactus.



Posts: 6138
Joined: 12/19/2001
From: CamborneCornwall, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		first let me point out our field rarely has more than 4 planes up at once...

we don't fly circuits, its asking for trouble, we all fly diffrent speeds and asking everone to be in a "sky road" is asking for a midair, becides we're not that dull and like to fly the plane, their not control line after all.

what happens is certian types end up flying in mixed groups or certian people fly together, then you'll find one guy flying slow around the patch with his funfly, a trainer or old guy up high and a fast one doing low passes while the funfly climbs a bit. these diffrent types use diffrent parts of the sky and have little chance of meeting. Most mid airs happen here when the same style plane is sharing the airspace or people start to fly circuits...

now, landing.. i do propper landing circuits, it's habbit, however the lenght of the approach varies hugely on what i'm flying.

when teaching i use points in the horrizon for them to line up with, the huge hills in the distance help lots here. i also never teach them to take off with them behind the plane. they will always learn from the side with me, they do this by low passes turning into touch and gos, this way they never learn this bad habbit of standing on the runway. i hate people that stand there for ages after they've taken off and slowly wander back to where your meant to stand.
our patch is round btw and wind direction is unimportant. we just move the pits and standing point.

when i'm flying a plane other than a funfly i do fast passes over the patch up and down wind. whats the point wasting fule flying in the distance. however the aera has to be clear for this, one reason i fly these planes in an empty sky..

some clubs do things one way, some another. respect your clubs flying standards and practices, thank god i'm in one that likes to fly the planes with some freedom

_____________________________

My half dead website www.philsrcworld.fsnet.co.uk new site coming soon.
Redruth & District model flying club www.rcflye

(in reply to Zpat)
       Post #: 4

RE: Dangerous flyers II - 9/11/2003 6:36:16 PM   
Zpat



Posts: 558
Joined: 11/9/2002
From: Lima, OH,
Status: offline 		The point I want do drive home is the fact that I want everyone to take off and land in the same direction.
It's kind of upsetting to land to the west while another lands to the east at the same time.
I'm probably considered a big pain when I fly because I rarely go any further than directly in front of me. I don't even attempt to fly anything resembling a pattern but I do know what direction to land and take off. I have to dodge the guys flying the pattern. I 'm pretty good at dodging them if they all come from the same way but when they come from both ways it gets pretty intense.

(in reply to Zpat)
       Post #: 5

RE: Dangerous flyers II - 9/11/2003 7:07:21 PM   
greenboot



Posts: 1173
Joined: 1/16/2002
From: St Louis, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Jim,
Those 9 steps sound like a good way to warm up for a marathon run!

Zpat,
I find it interesting that you are compelling everyone else to fly a regular pattern so you can occupy the area directly in front of and/or over the runway. Your original post gave the impression you were proposing a strict flight pattern for everyone. Now I see you would like to be the exception.

I also enjoy flying right in front of the main runway, but I thought it would be rude to ask everyone else to go fly somewhere else.

To

(in reply to Jim Branaum)
       Post #: 6

RE: Dangerous flyers II - 9/11/2003 7:33:58 PM   
Zpat



Posts: 558
Joined: 11/9/2002
From: Lima, OH,
Status: offline 		greenboot,
My objective is to have everyone landing and taking off in the same direction. Once they are in the air I really don't mind what they do.
It's called the flight pattern for taking off and landing. The fact that everyone flys in a rectangle around the flying field is a moot point.

(in reply to Zpat)
       Post #: 7

RE: Dangerous flyers II - 9/11/2003 10:19:26 PM   
Cactus.



Posts: 6138
Joined: 12/19/2001
From: CamborneCornwall, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		take off and land into wind, thats all that matters, however at our filed that isn't as easy as it sounds, i have a rater interesting GIF showing our flag going every direction in about 2 mins. shame i missed the one where it went right up!!!!

assuming the wind stays in the same direction and you land the same way you took off, isn't the only possible action inbetween a rectangle? unless they take off and fly over the pits that is.

_____________________________

My half dead website www.philsrcworld.fsnet.co.uk new site coming soon.
Redruth & District model flying club www.rcflye

(in reply to Zpat)
       Post #: 8

RE: Dangerous flyers II - 9/13/2003 5:44:17 AM   
Sincraft



Posts: 220
Joined: 9/5/2003
From: n/a, PA,
Status: offline 		What do you do when you fly at a field where the wing is ALWAYS cross and you are also partially flying with and not into it both for landing and takeoffs because the proper way is blocked by a walking path (hey the park devs didn't know better) and trees...?

A good 15 mph crosswind and you can expect about 10 missed approaches here. The width of the runway including the grass portion (not like I can hit the pavement anyway) is about a 10 sec walk which I conclude to be about only 25 yards wide.

S

(in reply to Zpat)
       Post #: 9

RE: Dangerous flyers II - 9/13/2003 11:03:12 AM  1 votes
Cactus.



Posts: 6138
Joined: 12/19/2001
From: CamborneCornwall, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		we recently did a display at a field with a hedge, then the crowd, pits, pilots flightline etc and the wind was coming over the hedge at quite a speed. as we're not really used to cross wind landings we all did really well coming in sideways dealing with the turbulence.
our rough cut strip was about 6-7meters wide and we had to come in across it slightly too but keeping well away from the flightline, pits, public, etc.

i've seen PRO pilots flying at a UK display unable to get their FUNFLYS! on a runway of similar size with perfect wind.

_____________________________

My half dead website www.philsrcworld.fsnet.co.uk new site coming soon.
Redruth & District model flying club www.rcflye

(in reply to Zpat)
       Post #: 10

RE: Dangerous flyers II - 9/13/2003 12:11:28 PM   
Taildrager


 

Posts: 921
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Oregon, IL, USA
Status: offline 		On a usual summer day at our field one takes off heading west, then north then east, flying east is where vertical manovers are to be performed, then fly south, turn west, and horozonal manovers and low fast fly byes are performed. This worksout pretty well most of the time till the 3Ders start their antics stage center.

(in reply to Zpat)
       Post #: 11

RE: Dangerous flyers II - 9/13/2003 11:24:29 PM   
BasinBum



Posts: 5717
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Hawthorne, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Some of you guys are analyzing flying way to much. And another person crying safety as an exscuse to tell others how to fly doesn't make anyone safer.

(in reply to Zpat)
       Post #: 12

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