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is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/5/2012 5:25 PM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		Gents,,

I'm trying this out in engines forum as well... I just started assembling the BH FW 190a and wanted to know what gas motor I should use to make it go really fast. I have a DLE 20 and just traded for a DLE 30 but wondered if I should think bigger?

Is there such a thing as too much motor? Will i sheer the wings off with a DLE55?

There's a really cool Zero at my flightline (flyocma.com) that goes really fast (looks and moves like a warbird should). I see a lot of guys and their 70+ inch P51's and P40's crawl around the patern. I want to get that thrill of a low fast pass on the dead line.

btw.. its a BH FW190a ARF...

BlackHorse site

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/5/2012 5:48 PM  1 votes
flyinwalenda


 

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Status: offline 		Yes!
Like I said in your other thread. Warbirds should be flown scale. What you refer to as crawling  around is actually the plane being flown at a scale speed based on it's size to the full scale plane. If you want a pylon racer then build a P51 and overpower it.
The plane you reference  only has a 70" wingspan and only weighs 10lbs.  The recommended 120FS would equal a 20cc gasoline. Put a 55cc on it and the extra 2lbs and added torque  would probably rip the firewall out  if you could even get it to fly without the prop hitting the ground. Plus the added dead tail weight needed, added stress on the airframe, etc...etc...
 It should fly well with a 20cc , a 30cc would be overkill ....but it's your plane and you can do what you want to it.



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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/5/2012 5:58 PM   
da Rock



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If you want a plane that flies good, a bit more power helps. A lot more doesn't, it usually hurts.

A buddy of mine overpowers everything HUGELY. His throttle stick is nothing more than a switch with every one of them. He has a hell of a time getting them to land because they simply won't slow down. He maybe has one that does, but he isn't happy since it is slower than his other rockets. He flies around at about 1/4 throttle and passes everyone. This last season I think he's blown the tail off 2 of them and one simply blew completely up before they could tell where the flutter started.

Is there such a thing as too much motor. Yeah, absolutely.

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/5/2012 6:53 PM   
sparky4lawndart



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Status: offline 		Flyinwalenda, I'm just looking for ideas... I'm not trying to piss you off... I absolutely hear what you're saying about scale flying and the speed has a lot to do with that...

The FW 190a had a 10meter wing span and a top speed of 416MPH... That puts the scale version of my 70inch Folke Wulf at about 72MPH.

I don't know the physics behing fluid dynamics and what happens when the airfoil hits some limit (like the affects of cavatation, etc). I'm just jazzed about going fast and looking for pointers, brother.

All respect to the folks that fly scale for the purpose of flying scale... My dollars are precious and that's why I'm doing a little homework before I do something stupid like plumb a turbine engine on top of the fuse (that was a joke).

The DLE 20 is a great little engine.. started easy and with my limited prop experience left me wanting more. granted the Sukhoi is a completely different airframe and not built for speed... Hey.. that just struct me... do you think the airframe has a lot to do with how that motor will pull a plane through the air? Will the warbird airfoil on this plane make it easier for this engine to pull higher speed with a 16X8 prop?

don't know... but appreciate your comments... I love coming here and asking questions.. don't want to appear a dope or make enemies...

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/5/2012 7:31 PM   
hugger-4641



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Status: offline 		"Scale" is also a subjective term when it comes down to it. If you are talking about speed and only speed as compared to physical dimensions, then a 1/4 scale P51 that is truly 1/4 scale should do 1/4 the speed of a full scale P51. So using that example, a 1/4 scale P51 should max out about 125mph since the full scale model can do about 500mph. But if you want to factor in wing loading, drag, and other fluid dynamic factors, a 1/4 scale model would not have exactly 1/4 the speed capability of the full scale plane. 

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/6/2012 1:31 AM   
ccostant



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Status: offline 		Listen to flyinwalenda and da Rock. You can probably get away with way too much engine in the air, assuming the airframe can take it. The biggest problems will be torque on take off and slowing down for landings. All warbirds will pull left on take off even with normal adequately sized power. This will be far worse with signficantly over powered planes. And most warbirds need flaps to help slow down, again with normal adequately sized power. Trying to land a warbird that doesn't slow down usually doesn't end well.

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/6/2012 11:43 AM   
carlbecker



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Status: offline 		Yes I believe there is such a thing as to much motor. Never do it though, I tend to not have enough but I don't have a need for speed. Stress, torque and size are some "too much" issues. Having anything stick out of the cowl really destroys the scale look, carbs, heads, mufflers, etc

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/6/2012 5:06 PM   
prop wash



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Status: offline 		Sparky just go with the max engine that the manufacturer says and then you can deal with different props and so on.I agree that with heads and carbs sticking out doesn't look good.In my TFGS P51s I put Moki 210s in them and there is more than enough power.So have fun and good luck!
Tom

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/6/2012 9:18 PM   
foodstick



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Status: offline 		I had a friend that put an OS 1.60 in a Pitts, a Monster Pitts. If you would hammer the throttle to hard on takeoff that plane would just sort of twist itself into a BAD PLACE to be.. he actually wrecked it once just throttling up to hard while climbing out. It WAS spectacular though.. He rebuilt it

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/7/2012 12:36 AM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		Also remember "Scale" and "Warbird" are 2 different things. Sure our warbirds represent real aircraft, but scale they are generally not.

That being said, it seems especially with gas, just throwing more engine will not give you any more speed, but will shake the C#@P out of your airframe. We have a guy in our club with a new Top flite giant P47 that started out with a DA 85, but now he switched it to a DA 60. The vibration was killing the plane, and it was not any faster than it is with the 60. Maybe just more vertical.

But Yes< you can go too big.

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/7/2012 1:13 AM   
Thunderbolt47



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Status: online 		Engine size has little effect on speed. That is the props job. ( as long as the engine can turn it)
I can elaborate more if need be.


BTW I like to go really fast too. I get LOTS of positive comments on my Mustang. (I fly at lots of Fly-ins)

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/7/2012 1:20 AM   
Thunderbolt47



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Status: online 		OMT, Don't let anyone tell you how your warbird is to be flown. Fly it for your pleasure. (as long as it safe)

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/7/2012 12:22 PM   
carlbecker



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Status: offline 		Yes most events I go to have many pilots with the hammer down. I don't really get it but many do. The engine does have something to do with speed, it is the driver for the prop and those big high pitch props at high rpm give speed. IMHO it is all about balance not speed. I live in a different world though ;~D

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/7/2012 2:04 PM   
fordy8


 

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Status: offline 		No, there is no such thing as too much motor. I'll never understand where this idea ever came from. Now, granted..., sometimes there just isn't enough airplane!!! I've had it happen myself!!

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/7/2012 5:43 PM   
hugger-4641



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Status: offline 		I have to use an analogy here. The Boss Hoss motorcycle is a good example to look at. Way more power than is possible to make use of in a motorcycle frame. Does it work?  Yes! ... Is it cool?  Absolutely!!  Is it practical, efficient, or easy for the average rider to handle? Afraid not.

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/7/2012 7:27 PM   
dadragon


 

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Status: offline 		With a 70" WS even a 50 would be good power for that plane,but vert-grim said it best about scale & warbirg,find the engine to where you wont need a ton of weight to balance it.

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/8/2012 9:14 PM   
Meschmidt


 

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Status: offline 		It's only too much motor if it sticks out too much, too nose heavy, or vibrates the airframe apart. As far as speed, the throttle is for that. Exp: TF P51 GS with Husky 4.4.

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/9/2012 12:06 AM   
Peter_OZ



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Status: offline 		hmmm two words to consider here.

Safety

Litigation



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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/9/2012 12:37 AM   
aa2dd


 

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a good rule of the thumb I have followed for many years is this ....... as long as you can slow the plane down enough to land, you do not have to much motor!


Bruce

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/9/2012 2:27 AM   
Johnny_Zero


 

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Status: offline 		30cc gas....perfect for that plane.

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/9/2012 3:19 AM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		Wanna go fast? Use a thinner airfoil! I have pylon planes to fulfill my need for speed. I find too much engine in my warbirds makes take offs trickier than anything. Must stay under 1/ 4 throttle! lol

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/9/2012 3:36 AM   
Peter_OZ



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Status: offline 		FFS!!! [>:]

it is a WARBIRD, not a bloody pylon racer

Like 3D fliers should just bite the bullet and buy and fly a heli

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/9/2012 11:48 AM   
carlbecker



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Meschmidt

It's only too much motor if it sticks out too much, too nose heavy, or vibrates the airframe apart. As far as speed, the throttle is for that. Exp: TF P51 GS with Husky 4.4.



And that is way to much sticking out. Still fly it and enjoy!

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/9/2012 2:46 PM   
larry@coyotenet


 

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Status: offline 		Look up definition of "wing loading". Many a nice plane has met it's maker because the builder ignored those two words.
Larry

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RE: is there such a thing as too much motor? - 11/9/2012 11:28 PM   
da Rock



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quote:

ORIGINAL: larry@coyotenet

Look up definition of ''wing loading''. Many a nice plane has met it's maker because the builder ignored those two words.
Larry



Good suggestion.

While the dictionary is out, check out power loading too. It's what kills a lot of models on takeoff when the throttle moves forward too fast and the airplane hasn't yet.

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