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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/9/2012 10:36 PM   
downunder



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ORIGINAL: qazimoto
There is an interesting article published in the Australian Control line News mid 2000's by a chap called Lance Smith which describes his experiments with Ethanol as a Methanol substitute in glow fuel for C/L B Class Team Racers.

Finally found it. http://dkd.net/clmodels/acln/acln111.pdf

I used to subscribe to ACLN when it was just a paper newsletter but now that it's online..... .

About 6 months ago I mixed up a tankfull of 75/25 Diggers Metho/castor to try in my ST GS45 and it ran very well although it didn't (hand) start quite as easily. It was just a quick test to see if the ethanol worked with a glow plug so I didn't use the tacho or check head temps. The 25% castor was to ensure it'd have enough lubrication because the air/fuel ratio of ethanol is much leaner than methanol (about 9:1 compared to 6.5:1).

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 1:37 AM   
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Status: online 		at 25% oil that must have made one hell of a mess on the plane after each run!?

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 4:47 AM   
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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 5:57 AM   
qazimoto


 

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ORIGINAL: Twin_Flyer

at 25% oil that must have made one hell of a mess on the plane after each run!?

Bill S.


I'm guessing that Downunder, like all good engine-men, uses a dedicated engine testing stand.



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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 6:25 AM   
Twin_Flyer



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Status: online 		true, but still. Thats a lot of oil...


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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 1:36 PM   
hllywdb



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Status: online 		It is a lot, but will run. Remember diesil fuel is close to that, but has much higher compression. A 35cc gas motor will run closer to a 32:1 oil mix. Remember that gasoline is an oil product to start with. Not that it is a great lubricant by itself, but better than methanol

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 3:22 PM   
downunder



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Status: offline 		Absolutely it was on a test stand . Actually I find almost no difference in the way an engine runs between 20% and 25% oil, in fact my ST G51 is so economical it overheats with 20% but runs perfectly on 25% but that's a special case.

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 3:50 PM   
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Status: online 		my comment about the % of oil wasn't about how it ran, just wondering how messy it was while running. I know when i run Sig fuel in my glow engines, it has a high content of caster oil in it. they run great on it, with no issues, but its leaves the plane 10 times more messy then other brands that have a higher content of synthetic oil vs. caster.

I know normally gas engines, at 30:1 or so are a lot cleaner running, but haven't had any experience running one on caster.

Thats all i was asking...

Bill S.

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 5:29 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Status: offline 		I know this oil discussion is off the subject slightly, but I thought I'd note that indeed more castor makes a big mess.. But there is no doubt the engine is well lubricated. I run 20% castor in most of my engines (including an Enya 4-stroke even), and 25% castor in my bushed K&B's, and my lapped Enya SS30bb. It makes a mess, but thats part of running glow. I run a little castor in my weed wacker and ice auger (with a touch of nitro too) and it isnt any messier than normal gas + 2-stroke oil. With the oil mix predominantly synthetic, there is very little carbon and no ring sticking. It smells good too.

Normal castor wont mix with gasoline unless you add the castor to some methanol (or other co-solvent) and add it to gasoline. Klotz Benol will mix with gasoline though and it has additives (supposedly) to prevent carbon build up and ring sticking). I've never used the stuff myself though.

With the technology being utilized on this little Norvel glow engine to run on gasoline, I wonder if this type of technology could be used on larger gas 2-strokes (converted chainsaw and weedwacker engines for example) to be able to run on a glow plug (who makes adapters for glow plugs these days that don't cost a fortune?) and thus remove the flywheel and magneto/coil to reduce weight and not using any glow fuel in the mix like Gas/Glow guys use.



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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 10:29 PM   
NM2K


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I know this oil discussion is off the subject slightly, but I thought I'd note that indeed more castor makes a big mess.. But there is no doubt the engine is well lubricated. I run 20% castor in most of my engines (including an Enya 4-stroke even), and 25% castor in my bushed K&B's, and my lapped Enya SS30bb. It makes a mess, but thats part of running glow. I run a little castor in my weed wacker and ice auger (with a touch of nitro too) and it isnt any messier than normal gas + 2-stroke oil. With the oil mix predominantly synthetic, there is very little carbon and no ring sticking. It smells good too.

Normal castor wont mix with gasoline unless you add the castor to some methanol (or other co-solvent) and add it to gasoline. Klotz Benol will mix with gasoline though and it has additives (supposedly) to prevent carbon build up and ring sticking). I've never used the stuff myself though.

With the technology being utilized on this little Norvel glow engine to run on gasoline, I wonder if this type of technology could be used on larger gas 2-strokes (converted chainsaw and weedwacker engines for example) to be able to run on a glow plug (who makes adapters for glow plugs these days that don't cost a fortune?) and thus remove the flywheel and magneto/coil to reduce weight and not using any glow fuel in the mix like Gas/Glow guys use.






Speaking of which (see above), whose glow plug is in the NV .40 gasser? Do they have their own, or are we back to using Enya's special glow plug, which will not fit our 1/4"x32 threaded engines? Sorry if I missed this info before.


Ed Cregger


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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 10:46 PM   
qazimoto


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NM2K


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I know this oil discussion is off the subject slightly, but I thought I'd note that indeed more castor makes a big mess.. But there is no doubt the engine is well lubricated. I run 20% castor in most of my engines (including an Enya 4-stroke even), and 25% castor in my bushed K&B's, and my lapped Enya SS30bb. It makes a mess, but thats part of running glow. I run a little castor in my weed wacker and ice auger (with a touch of nitro too) and it isnt any messier than normal gas + 2-stroke oil. With the oil mix predominantly synthetic, there is very little carbon and no ring sticking. It smells good too.

Normal castor wont mix with gasoline unless you add the castor to some methanol (or other co-solvent) and add it to gasoline. Klotz Benol will mix with gasoline though and it has additives (supposedly) to prevent carbon build up and ring sticking). I've never used the stuff myself though.

With the technology being utilized on this little Norvel glow engine to run on gasoline, I wonder if this type of technology could be used on larger gas 2-strokes (converted chainsaw and weedwacker engines for example) to be able to run on a glow plug (who makes adapters for glow plugs these days that don't cost a fortune?) and thus remove the flywheel and magneto/coil to reduce weight and not using any glow fuel in the mix like Gas/Glow guys use.






Speaking of which (see above), whose glow plug is in the NV .40 gasser? Do they have their own, or are we back to using Enya's special glow plug, which will not fit our 1/4''x32 threaded engines? Sorry if I missed this info before.


Ed Cregger



Yes, you did miss the information!

Apparently it's a special glowplug and isn't in a standard 1/4" x 32 package. It is bottom sealing according to the original poster. He hasn't said exactly what form it comes in.

The Norvel has a head button not a conventional head anyway. Some simple close up pictures of the engine including the plug would have been nice to see.

It's not that it's some new secret version of the iphone after all.







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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/10/2012 11:05 PM   
NM2K


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: qazimoto


quote:

ORIGINAL: NM2K


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I know this oil discussion is off the subject slightly, but I thought I'd note that indeed more castor makes a big mess.. But there is no doubt the engine is well lubricated. I run 20% castor in most of my engines (including an Enya 4-stroke even), and 25% castor in my bushed K&B's, and my lapped Enya SS30bb. It makes a mess, but thats part of running glow. I run a little castor in my weed wacker and ice auger (with a touch of nitro too) and it isnt any messier than normal gas + 2-stroke oil. With the oil mix predominantly synthetic, there is very little carbon and no ring sticking. It smells good too.

Normal castor wont mix with gasoline unless you add the castor to some methanol (or other co-solvent) and add it to gasoline. Klotz Benol will mix with gasoline though and it has additives (supposedly) to prevent carbon build up and ring sticking). I've never used the stuff myself though.

With the technology being utilized on this little Norvel glow engine to run on gasoline, I wonder if this type of technology could be used on larger gas 2-strokes (converted chainsaw and weedwacker engines for example) to be able to run on a glow plug (who makes adapters for glow plugs these days that don't cost a fortune?) and thus remove the flywheel and magneto/coil to reduce weight and not using any glow fuel in the mix like Gas/Glow guys use.






Speaking of which (see above), whose glow plug is in the NV .40 gasser? Do they have their own, or are we back to using Enya's special glow plug, which will not fit our 1/4''x32 threaded engines? Sorry if I missed this info before.


Ed Cregger



Yes, you did miss the information!

Apparently it's a special glowplug and isn't in a standard 1/4'' x 32 package. It is bottom sealing according to the original poster. He hasn't said exactly what form it comes in.

The Norvel has a head button not a conventional head anyway. Some simple close up pictures of the engine including the plug would have been nice to see.

It's not that it's some new secret version of the iphone after all.







The info about this glow plug is far more interesting to me than an iPhone. I won't own anything that Apple has anything to do with. As you may have guessed, I don't like Apple the company, nor its products.

After all of that, I do thank you for your response.


Ed Cregger


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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/11/2012 4:11 PM   
hllywdb



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Status: online 		qazimoto is correct. All NV engines use a head button. The reason for this, as it was explained to me, is that they sell to a world market. In many countries, Russia included, Nitro is hard to come by. This provieds an easy way to adjust the compression ratio to meet different fuel, climate, and even prop size requirements. To this end the copper "gaskets" in the parts manual are refered to as "Shims" and depending on the model, are offered in different thicknesses. Much in the same way as Leroy Cox did on most of his motors.

As I stated in the begining of this thread, this is not an in-depth review into all the dimensions and specs of the motor as Clarence Lee would do, first because I am certainly not CL, and because the final configuration of the motor will be determined as they go into final production, at which point NV will announce it on their site. So I have not been authorized to get too specific on actual specs as to not give any misleading information until all of that is finalized.

I am not the only person in the only country testing this motor. The reason I was given is that it is below freezing there now and flight testing is limited. Even in the middle of summer they do not come near the 95 degree, 95% humidity I have here in FL. Anyone living in the south notices a marked difference in the way their motors and planes run in the summer vs the winter. Flyers living in high altitudes have their own set of differences. Personally I like the fact that they take the time to get as much feedback from regular fliers as possible before they release a motor. Most of us tend to fly our planes out at the field, not on a test stand in a lab and I wish more manufacturers took this approach. If you have been in this hobby long enough you have probably spent your hard earned money on the latest and greatest new motor only to have it not meet your expectations or advertised claims. It seems too many new products today are rushed to market without enough testing. D$#m I'm starting to sound OLD.

For the record, I have tested a number of new NV motors in different sizes which have not been released yet. I have also been sent new mufflers and updated carburators for their existing lineup to test. I stopped flying control line in the 70's, so those motors are sent elsewhere for testing. I have been flying the gas motors since early this spring, so I have been runing it through 3 seasons of temperatures. It has generated a lot of interest at my field where many modelers are flying gas engines and would like to be able to fly gas in their smaller planes as well and realize the savings in cost, fuel efficiency, and the added simplicity. So I did recieve permission to post a video here.

So look at this simply as a "First Look" or flight summery. It is just the impressions of an average modeler flying it in an average plane, using average radio equipment and possesing average skills who goes up to the field and likes to fly his planes when time allows. Since, like many of you, I do that for enjoyment, equipment that works well is appreciated.

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/11/2012 6:30 PM   
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Status: online 		thanks hllywdb, we appreciate your straightforward style without the hype and salespitches.

I have had an AX-40 for 4 years now and I like it. I read in the NV website about a possible .60 in the works? Any comments about that?

Thanks

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/11/2012 7:03 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Status: offline 		My primary interest is in the glow plug, as with NM2K. I'd like to know whats so different about it than any other platinum alloy glow plug (aside from the tapered seat).

I don't really care about any other details about the engine, its internal specs, etc. I dont care for gasoline because of the smell, but I am curious about the glow plug and what its all about.




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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/12/2012 12:20 AM   
hllywdb



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Status: online 		Hi hsukaria,
I have the same info you do on the 60 size. I think that since they started that post on the NV site, they are looking at that. I do not know where they are in the process. I do know that many of the guys at the field who have seen the 40 gas run have said they would love to see a 60 size gas version, just because of the wide range of applications.

1QwkSport2.5r,
I have no specifics on the plug other than noted. I would assume it has to be something different based on what I have read of other people trying this and on what little I know of the Enya engine. I think it has to be different requirements for them to design a new head. If a regular style would work well, why not use the existing design that takes a standard plug. As to the smell of fuel, I am kind of partial to Nitro and castor myself as my wife never questions whether I was actually at the field

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/12/2012 12:43 AM   
qazimoto


 

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ORIGINAL: hllywdb


1QwkSport2.5r,
I have no specifics on the plug other than noted. I would assume it has to be something different based on what I have read of other people trying this and on what little I know of the Enya engine. I think it has to be different requirements for them to design a new head. If a regular style would work well, why not use the existing design that takes a standard plug. As to the smell of fuel, I am kind of partial to Nitro and castor myself as my wife never questions whether I was actually at the field



Can you take the plug out and post a picture please?

It wouldn't need to be a closeup.

That would clear up some questions.



< Message edited by qazimoto -- 11/12/2012 7:02 AM >

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/12/2012 4:30 AM   
Ernie Misner



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Status: offline 		If indeed the element is platinum I wonder why a regular hot glow plug wouldn't at least fire the engine on gasoline.

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/12/2012 2:23 PM   
AJsToyz



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Status: offline 		Are you getting slimed? Lol

The only reason I don't fly as much glow as I used to is the slime factor. I don't mind cleaning a plane but I wish I could recycle all the oil. I could use it to oile hinges, shine up my tires, and the list goes on!



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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/12/2012 2:41 PM   
NM2K


 

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Status: offline 		In spite of my grumpy attitude, I want to thank you very much for posting your very honest article and replies. Without your original post on this topic, the majority of us (we fellow forum members) might not have known about this engine's existence. Thanks again.


Ed Cregger


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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/12/2012 3:36 PM   
hllywdb



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Status: online 		Thank you Ed,
Much appreciated.

Andy,
I get far less "Slime" with the gas and it is easier to clean off, however it is darker in color than nitro, as gas must burn a little dirtier than methanol. In the end, it still takes a lot less effort to clean up. I'm not sure how it does keeping the hinges oiled though and I haven't tried it on my tires yet

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/12/2012 5:38 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		Sounds like a good alternative to ignition.  I wonder if the plug is merely a hot Turbo plug.  I think it is an M8 x .75mm pitch thread.  I hope Norvel sells the plugs seperately for more experiments.  Some guys were running combinations of methanol and gas in the weedwacker conversions to do away with the weight of the ignition.  I think the last I read, it was 1/3 glow fuel to 2/3 gas. The rods on the bigger motors have ball/roller bearings. They used a spark plug adapter to a glow plug.  It is in this website in the conversion forum.  gas to glow.  There were a couple of guys did a lot of testing.  I think a carb would need a shallower taper on the idle needle to idle properly with the gas.  I have a bunch of Norvels, It looks like one more for the pile when it comes out.  Most of their stuff is pretty good.

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/12/2012 7:02 PM   
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Status: offline 		I like the sounds of this one, best of luck with testing! If all goes well I know what I will be purchasing as long as it does not end up in limbo.

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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/12/2012 10:05 PM   
hllywdb



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RE: Testing the new NV (Norvel) .40 size (6.5cc) gasoli... - 11/14/2012 1:57 PM   
AJsToyz



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quote:

ORIGINAL: hllywdb

OK, but you guys can't have mine LOL


And I like mine broke in! LOL just wonder how looooooooong it will take to hit production.

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