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120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/10/2012 3:12 AM   
Terry Bolin


 

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Status: offline 		Did I see somewhere that a 20 gas motor is the same output as a 120 4 stroke glow?
is that true 20 gas is close to 120 4 strk?
I am putting together a Waco and the 4 stroke recommendation is 120 but the gas was like 30 to 50 size motors..
Thinking that the 30 gas is quite a bit more output than the 120. My 1/4 stearman has LOTS with a 120 Magnum.
Thanks Terry B

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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/10/2012 11:29 PM   
karolh


 

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Status: online 		Most current 20cc gas engine are very similar in power to 1.20 2 stroke engines, and are much more powerful than 1.20 4 strokes.

Karol

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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 4:02 AM   
w8ye



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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 4:10 AM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		The gasoline powered engines from the earlier days didn't develop as much power as the more modern gasoline engines do. A modern 20cc gas engine develops as much if not more power than the older 30 to 40cc engines did. Plus the modern engines weigh a lot less too.
But a 20cc glow engine still can out power a 20cc gasoline engine. So you still should bump up the gasoline engine's power some more. But a 25cc or 26cc modern gasoline engine is probably very close to matching a 20cc glow engine though. The older engines were mostly piston port induction types, with the carburetor mounted to the side of the cylinder so it could use the piston to control the intake port. The modern engines tend to all be rear intake with reed valves controlling the port timing. But there are some gasoline engines that use the crankshaft as a rotary valve intake and those are quite powerful, not giving up much in power compared to a same size glow engine.




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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 4:13 AM   
w8ye



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ORIGINAL: earlwb

The gasoline powered engines from the earlier days didn't develop as much power as the more modern gasoline engines do. A modern 20cc gas engine develops as much if not more power than the older 30 to 40cc engines did. Plus the modern engines weigh a lot less too.
But a 20cc glow engine still can out power a 20cc gasoline engine. So you still should bump up the gasoline engine's power some more. But a 25cc or 26cc modern gasoline engine is probably very close to matching a 20cc glow engine though. The older engines were mostly piston port induction types, with the carburetor mounted to the side of the cylinder so it could use the piston to control the intake port. The modern engines tend to all be rear intake with reed valves controlling the port timing. But there are some gasoline engines that use the crankshaft as a rotary valve intake and those are quite powerful, not giving up much in power compared to a same size glow engine.


In addition to having the pyramid reed plate in the rear, the DLE 20 also has a 3rd boost port on the intake that the old piston ported gas engines did not have.



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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 4:25 AM   
BubbasanJohn



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Status: offline 		I'm not trying to start a flame war or high jack his tread but aree you guys saying that piston. Porting is weaker than rear feed valve designs?  If so I would kindly disagree. My piston ported Brison just flew with a similar size DLE and the DLE had nowhere near the power of the Brison.  Just trying to understand the difference and advantages   

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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 4:35 AM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		The first DLE 55's did not have the extra port


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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 4:51 AM   
captinjohn


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye


quote:

ORIGINAL: earlwb

The gasoline powered engines from the earlier days didn't develop as much power as the more modern gasoline engines do. A modern 20cc gas engine develops as much if not more power than the older 30 to 40cc engines did. Plus the modern engines weigh a lot less too.
But a 20cc glow engine still can out power a 20cc gasoline engine. So you still should bump up the gasoline engine's power some more. But a 25cc or 26cc modern gasoline engine is probably very close to matching a 20cc glow engine though. The older engines were mostly piston port induction types, with the carburetor mounted to the side of the cylinder so it could use the piston to control the intake port. The modern engines tend to all be rear intake with reed valves controlling the port timing. But there are some gasoline engines that use the crankshaft as a rotary valve intake and those are quite powerful, not giving up much in power compared to a same size glow engine.


In addition to having the pyramid reed plate in the rear, the DLE 20 also has a 3rd boost port on the intake that the old piston ported gas engines did not have.



What makes a Mintor 22 more powerfull that a DLE 20???   Just saying...both are reed valves

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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 4:56 AM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		Take it apart and find out?

To look at the cylinder bore on a DLE, it is amazing the engines run as good as they do for the bore is not very accurate compared with a Zenoah.


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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 3:20 PM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: offline 		I know what you mean. Took my DLE 30 apart and replaced the piston ring with a good Boman ring.  The cyl bore looks like you say...kinda leaves a lot too be desired...but the porting does allow for good power.   Also a Zenoah you could run it wide open for extended periods...don,t try it with certain DLE engines.

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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 5:02 PM   
earlwb


 

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ORIGINAL: captinjohn
What makes a Mintor 22 more powerfull that a DLE 20???   Just saying...both are reed valves


The Mintors are carefully built up at the factory to close tolerances. Although the DLE engines are pretty good, I don't think they pay that much attention to its assembly and tolerances. The DLE's are assembled more like mass production utility engines for trimmers, blowers, and so on. Cost being the main driving factor.  I think the port timing is more agressive with better porting that what the DLE engine has too. The reed valves are key to good performance too. Good reed valves can make a huge difference in how a engine runs. With the Mintors, they have better piston to cylinder fitting, better quality piston rings, the porting is nicer with little to no ragged edges and roughness, the reed block is nicely done without the rough edges, too.  Quite a few Chinese made engines have noticeable improvements using a Frank Bowman piston ring, as the Chinese rings aren't as good as they could be. Sometimes up to a 500 RPMs or better improvement could be had with a Bowman ring. I don't remember anyone getting much if any improvement with a Bowman ring in the Mintor engines.  Anyway it is all of the little things that add up to more performance.

I think that the Mintors are really nice engines. Kudos if you have one too.





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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 5:34 PM   
karolh


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: earlwb


I think that the Mintors are really nice engines. Kudos if you have one too.




Karol


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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 10:10 PM   
johnsh1234


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terry Bolin

Did I see somewhere that a 20 gas motor is the same output as a 120 4 stroke glow?
is that true 20 gas is close to 120 4 strk?
I am putting together a Waco and the 4 stroke recommendation is 120 but the gas was like 30 to 50 size motors..
Thinking that the 30 gas is quite a bit more output than the 120. My 1/4 stearman has LOTS with a 120 Magnum.
Thanks Terry B


I have a DLE20 and a Saito 115 that I'm useing presently, the Saito is a great engine and I realy love the way it performs, useing 10 per cent nitro.

The DLE20 has only a few flights on it , but so far, I'm very impressed with it as well, great low idle, and leaves the Saito Standing power wise.

If a 120 nitro 4 stroke will power that A/C properly, then the DLE20 will will do it easily.

Mintor 20 looks like a beutifully engineered engine as well, if it performs anything like the DLE it may be a more reliable buy.

Good luck whatever you choose.

John



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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/11/2012 11:03 PM   
kochj


 

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I read it as He/she wanted to know if a 4-stroke glow engine converted to gasoline, will put
out as much power as the glow version....


Apparently the Heading on the post, was dif than the q/...

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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/12/2012 2:32 AM   
RiverLarry


 

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Status: offline 		Yes thay ARE   BUT   that muffler is but ugley     R/L

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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/12/2012 2:43 AM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: offline 		Hi River Larry...I got too agree with you about that muffler is Butt Ugly.  I have been planning to make a custom one on my vertical mill.  The only thing that would stay the same is the port dia and the 4 bolt pattern where it bolts on. I will commet there..... with 4 bolts it never viabrates loose, and I did not lock-tite then at all. 

Wow....that muffler looks has got too change...your right on there.  Shoot...it was too windy too fly today...missed you Guys.   Capt,n

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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/12/2012 3:04 PM   
karolh


 

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Status: online 		Capt,n if you ever get around to making a custom muffler for your M22 do share it with a picture here.

Karol

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RE: 120 4 stroke to gas CID - 11/29/2012 10:39 PM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: offline 		I have been thinking about making a custom exhaust.  We have the Mintor 22cc size. I was looking at views of the exhaust on the Mintor 38 and one could use that as a starting point idea. Take a look at it Karolh and give me some thoughts.   Thanks, Capt,n

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