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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:15 AM   
blhollo2


 

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From: fuquay varina, NC, USA
Status: offline 		you wont be doing any high flyng with that dinky radio system Spektrum Dx5e you have and also it seems like your new to this and i would suggest baby steps..the spyhawk seems like a good starting point for you. good luck.

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:57 AM   
bogbeagle


 

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Status: online 		Yes, I agree with you, re the camera' quality and such ... though I'm not at all experienced in such matters, I have experimented a bit with various devices.

The Spyhawk in the video is not mine; I was just "having a go with it".

I flew it with the auto-stab engaged and it seemed fine. In fact, I flew it to a range far beyond what I would have flown LoS.


Anyway, at one point, I decided to dis-engage the auto-stab. I thought, "This little thing will be a sweetie; doesn't need a load of technology for local flying." What happened? .... immediate spin. Aggressive, too. Couldn't believe it, nor could I recover manually. Had to re-engage the stabiliser.

On investigation, I discovered that the owner (a fairly experienced pilot) had the CG back beyond 50%. That is why I'm so impressed with the electronics. A model that it was impossible for me to fly manually, was tamed by the auto-stabilising system.

Anyway, the CG problem has been addressed and the model is much better behaved.




I was thinking that the auto-stabilising system allows a relatively small aeroplane to be flown to quite great height in safety ... you can't lose control.


Model planes ... they always find some new way to fox you... especially when you think you've seen it all.


< Message edited by bogbeagle -- 11/13/2012 8:42 AM >

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 7:09 AM   
Maximilionalpha


 

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 11:50 AM   
AA5BY


 

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Status: offline 		Ya never know. Just two weeks ago, I heard the sound of a plane that was evidently close and low coming from the rear left. No one saw it until it was over the field as it came from behind our pavilion. I was flying and when hearing the plane dived to about thirty feet off the deck and it was a good decision as the plane flew directly over our flying field at about two hundred feet.

There was a rush of gasp and someone noted that the idiot flying the plane was in violation of minimum height requirements. Someone else reminded it didn't matter, RC'ers are still responsible to avoid any flight that will pose a hazard to full scale flight.



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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 1:53 PM   
HoundDog


 

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Status: offline 		Besides flying in an airport traffic area. which is an area ( within 5 miles of an airport with extensions for instrument approaches) Most of the USA is covered by some form of  controled airspace wich if U look at an Aeronautical Secetional chart U will notice areas that have a blue (700 ft AGL) or Majenta tint ( 1200 ft. AGL). This indicates the altitude that VFR meterlogical conditions must be met. Usually 3 milse visibility 500 ft below 1000 feet above and 2000 feet horizontal distance from clouds. Not flying through  or close to any clouds even if your are flying more than 5 miles from an airport traffic aera. U could be leagle if you were not in controled air space and stayed clear of clouds ie below 700' or 1200' in certian aeras. Again it's not a wise idea to post such videos on U-Tube ... no sence giving the FAA or anyone else the excuse to regulate us out of the air. Beleave me it is much eaiser for them to out law us if they feel they can't regulate us.


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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 1:57 PM   
FBaity


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

Thats not neat, its stupid, when the RC pilot cant see the plane he or she endangering manned aircraft.



+ 1


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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 2:02 PM   
HoundDog


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AA5BY

Ya never know. Just two weeks ago, I heard the sound of a plane that was evidently close and low coming from the rear left. No one saw it until it was over the field as it came from behind our pavilion. I was flying and when hearing the plane dived to about thirty feet off the deck and it was a good decision as the plane flew directly over our flying field at about two hundred feet.

There was a rush of gasp and someone noted that the idiot flying the plane was in violation of minimum height requirements. Someone else reminded it didn't matter, RC'ers are still responsible to avoid any flight that will pose a hazard to full scale flight.


U wre absolutly right about who has the right of way ... but if you get the aircraft registration numbers U can go to Landings.com US registrations http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*193800884!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/search_nnr.html
and find out where that plane is based and who owns it ... Contact the pilot and make HIM/HER aware of where your field is and where U fly. Alos if there is an mid air between his/her plane it  porbbaly will "Ruin his whole Day" and distroy a perfictally good model airplane.


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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 2:54 PM  1 votes
pmerritt


 

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Status: offline 		Hey, Wrice4, life is short.  You go fly into those clouds and don't let all the Barney Fifes here tell you what to do.  I hope they don't let these Deputy Dawg wannabe sheriffs around here have any corks for their guns.  Geeze.

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 3:34 PM   
Wrice4


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1320Fastback

Wing span is what you want (the OP, not the BS above)

You can easily fly LOS very high if your plane is big.
Have seen many gliders at "clubs" we'll over 1K feet and well within LoS.



Thank you, haha. So if I am wanting a plane that can go higher than most, I jsut need to look for one with a greater wingspan so I can see it better? Like a Radian? or Bixler?

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 4:03 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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quote:

ORIGINAL: pmerritt

Hey, Wrice4, life is short.  You go fly into those clouds and don't let all the Barney Fifes here tell you what to do.  I hope they don't let these Deputy Dawg wannabe sheriffs around here have any corks for their guns.  Geeze.

Exactly the reason we will have the FAA regulating us

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 5:14 PM   
jester_s1


 

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Status: offline 		+1 that everything the OP is looking to do is a bad idea. I'll list the problems I see.

1. Flying beyond line of sight is a violation of the AMA safety code. I do understand that some macho jerks think they don't need a safety code because they are somehow endowed with super human abilities to not damage property they can't see with a plane they can't see, but the fact is the safety code has been developed with about 70 years of RC experience. It works.

2. Flying high enough to be in the clouds near an airport is illegal. You have DFW and Love Field near you, so there's nowhere in Dallas where you can do what you want to do legally. That's not to mention the smaller airstrips and medical flights that happen every day.

3. Using inadequate equipment won't get you good results. You're wanting to do this cheaply as most beginners do, but if you don't have the quality of FPV equipment you need and a radio with adequate range you're just going to lose your plane.

4. FPV stunts are a PR nightmare for the hobby. As others have mentioned, our hobby is getting lots of negative attention lately, and these sensational videos are a big reason why. FPV is a truly exciting new way to do the hobby, but if we aren't responsible with it we are going to bring regulations upon ourselves from people who know jack squat about what we do. They will err on the side of appeasing public fear and keeping full scale planes safe, not on preserving our freedoms to enjoy our toys. That may not matter to you as you may be one of the guys who flits from one hobby to the next every few years, but some of us plan to do this for a long time and don't want some newbie ruining it.

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 5:43 PM   
Maximilionalpha


 

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Status: offline 		Did anyone here mention that if you're within a 5 mile radius of an airport,(small airport), that you can go and sit down with the people in charge of things and let them know what you do and ask them if it's okay to fly above 1000 ft in your particular area.  I live 6 miles away from the nearest small airport, but I've still let the people in charge of it know what I do and where I do it from and all they wanted, was to see video footage of one of my flights, not to mention that one of those in charge of that airport, is also the president of my rc flying club.

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:00 PM   
opjose



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quote:

ORIGINAL: blhollo2

you wont be doing any high flyng with that dinky radio system Spektrum Dx5e you have and also it seems like your new to this and i would suggest baby steps..the spyhawk seems like a good starting point for you. good luck.


I don't know where that first comment comes from nor the basis for it?

The DX5e is a full range TX that has exactly the same Milliwatt output rating as the DX18 high end radio, or JR's, Futaba's etc.

I agree about the Spyhawk. Good "all in one" package.



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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:03 PM   
schooner.cdn


 

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G'day all,

Only my two cents as a full scale commercial survey pilot and rc flyer from Canada so please don't flame me!

VFR charts or sectional charts may not necessarily show all airports.  My experience has been the charts are updated somewhat infrequently and wont always show all airports in your vicinity. It is also possible someone has mowed out a grass strip for private use and their field isn't registered and mapped accordingly. I've overflown many private fields that are not marked on charts.

In Canada the minimum altitude for aircraft is 500' from persons, vehicles, buildings, boats etc and 1000' over built up areas.  That being said there is nothing illegal about me flying around at 200' in a remote area free from all the above mentioned.  So if you decide to fly in a similar area there is potential for conflict where the low flying aircraft may not be in the wrong.  Bear in mind even in built up areas many survey aircraft have exceptions in their operating certificates to operate legally at lower altitudes (ex. the company I work for is approved to operate down to 80m or 262' AGL)

As far as flying in cloud goes, in my opinion this is just a bad idea regardless of AMA or FAA regulations.  Even if you have made all reasonable efforts to create a safe environment can you guarantee you are free of conflict with IFR aircraft?  There are many situations where a full scale aircraft may be cleared down to the lowest sector altitude or min alt on an airway while in cloud.

In Canada the air regs say.
Model Aircraft, Kites and Model Rockets
602.45 No person shall fly a model aircraft or a kite or launch a model rocket or a rocket of a type used in a fireworks display into cloud or in a manner that is or is likely to be hazardous to aviation safety.

Be sure the FAA does not have the equivalent. Has anyone looked into having the FAA mark your flying field as Advisory airspace or at least NOTAM your area when you're flying FPV? I've had one near miss with a rc glider and let me tell you they are very hard to see until you're right on top of them and when you're looking for other full scale aircraft it is very scary.  Fly safe. Cheers....

Schooner



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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:05 PM   
opjose



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Status: offline 		Guys the original poster stated:

"I am talking about flying high to make aerial videos...? Of course I would want to see the plane so I wouldnt crash. "

So he IS talking about flying within LINE OF SIGHT.

However he is also a novice, and what appears to be very high to him in reality will not be so much.

He'll be quite surprised at how small the Spyhawk appears in the sky at 800'.

It is unlikely he will get far beyond that height.

Even with a larger plane like the Radian, an effective slant height limit of 2000-2200 feet means an effective altitude far less than 2000 feet.

As long as he is not within a local airspace/airport zone he may be fine, though it is up to him to check as people are suggesting.

Remember there's a LOT of open land in Texas.


I'm always on the bandwagon against any form of irresponsible behaviour.

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:14 PM   
Maximilionalpha


 

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Status: offline 		No offence, but I've had my Radian up to 3126 ft, AGL and nothing about it was "slant".  I stay vertical  above head, when I wish to acheive such heights.  Here's one video where I was flying in low heavy cloud cover and almost lost my Radian, not because it was obscured by the clouds, but because I was flying slant about 300ft out and became disoriented, as to which direction the aircraft was pointing in.



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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:31 PM   
opjose



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Status: offline 		What TX/RX did you use?

Almost all 2.4gHz gear only works out to around 2100 feet.

Even 72mhz is limited to around 2400'.



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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:37 PM   
Maximilionalpha


 

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Status: offline 		I use Spektrum Ar6210, w/Sat. Rx and my DX6i.  Well, maybe my setup is kinda like the Road Runner(Beep, beep) , who didn't learn about gravity???    My next recorded feat, will be to attain an altitude of 3500-4000ft AGL, by naked-eye alone.  Even at 3000ft, my Radian still appears to look about the size of your thumbnail.

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:43 PM   
opjose



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maximilionalpha

I use Spektrum Ar6210, w/Sat. Rx and my DX6i.  Well, maybe my setup is kinda like the Road Runner(Beep, beep) , who didn't learn about gravity???    My next recorded feat, will be to attain an altitude of 3500-4000ft AGL, by naked-eye alone.


You've been somewhat lucky and probably flying in a relatively RF noiseless area extending your range.

There are plenty of posted videos where both 2.4gHz and 72mhz line of sight ranges are tested.

2100' or so is about the max range. In the videos you see a LOT of frame loss after that, and by 2600' a complete loss of control unless something like a "Cantenna" is used. Even here range barely approaches 3100'.

I've had gliders up around 2100 AGL, and could not see the plane at all.

I hope you are flying at least 15 miles away from any non-private airport.



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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:45 PM   
Maximilionalpha


 

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Status: offline 		over 30 miles from any non-private airport and 6 miles from private one in the one direction and 11 in the other direction.

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:48 PM   
PLANE JIM



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Status: offline 		WOW-you admitted and supplied a video of your activity with your mug at the beginning.

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 6:53 PM   
Maximilionalpha


 

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Status: offline 		 Who are you, FAA ?  I'm only a drop in the bucket, when it comes to rc pilots who fly well above the normal park flyer, as well as, your regular club member.  Soon, I intend to get into atmospheric research, using my rc gliders and then you'll be seeing a whole lot of my mug, in the videos.  lol

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 7:01 PM   
bogbeagle


 

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Status: online 		I haven't checked the range of my 2.4 gear ... I'll have to do that.

However, my 35 MHz Multiplex has a ground range of 2,200 yards... which is about 7 times as far as I can fly, LoS.

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 7:24 PM   
Maximilionalpha


 

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Status: offline 		2.4ghz gear has the capabilities of traveling far beyond the LoS, and as long as you're going predominantly vertically above you, and are staying within a 300 ft radius of your flying area, you can acheive greater altitudes than you'd believe. 

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RE: Flying to the clouds - 11/13/2012 7:29 PM   
PLANE JIM



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Status: offline 		no sir I am not the FAA-just a pilot that has concerns about flying with model airplanes in the same airspace with no seperation, also I am one of many indiviuals that would like to be able to continue to fly models without government interference and probaly one of the many individuals that would testify against you in case of a tragic accident.

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