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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/15/2012 8:35 PM   
Mr Cox



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From: Karlstad, SWEDEN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PWF63
Screw in liner and cooling fins as oposed to the current engine with hold down bolts.



I believe all the smaller sizes (.03-.061) are screw in liners, and the hold down bolts are on the .09 and up.
I have a green anodized one somewhere...

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/15/2012 8:41 PM   
fiery


 

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Status: offline 		I inherited an old PAW that was tiny and had three hold down bolts. I believe that some time ago the 049 and 06 were re-designed and are now "screw-in" liner and fins.

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/15/2012 8:54 PM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: offline 		Not quite right-the PAW 55 was first introduced in plain form-subsequently a 'de-luxe' version was offered with light red/pink (it's a subjective call on colour!) fins and a spinner of the same colour. The 049 and 06 were developed from the 55, as it was the first PAW to use a screw-in cylinder setup. They came with mauve and green heads respectively-right from the start. The 09 had a blue head, and some came with a matching anodised hex stock spinner. Some of the multitude of 249 models had a black head and spinner, and at one time the 49 and 60 had anodised heads-dark green and black (but I forget which way round-I don't own a 49 or 60).

You are correct though that PAW did drop anodising as a cost cutting measure about 5 years ago-(a pity in my opinion!)

That being said the vast majority of PAWs out there (and there must be many tens of thousands by now after 50+ years of production- perhaps even hundreds of thousands) are plain without any form of anodising.

My comment was directed specifically at Martin's gold PAW 55-which is not a normal colour for any regular PAW [yes I'm aware that Peter Fisher had a short run of PK 86's made for him by PAW and these were anodised gold-but they were in the nature of a rebadging exercise-he also did similar things with several DC models]
If you take the time to compare the current small PAW's (55,049,06) you'll notice that the head shape has changed slightly from the earlier versions-the top of the head is now a lot flatter, without the gentle upwards taper towards the centre-I think (but I'm not certain) that this change came in around the time PAW ceased anodising. Personally I prefer the earlier shape (and colour!)

ChrisM
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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/15/2012 9:09 PM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: offline 		Fiery-the small 3 bolt job would be either an '80' or '100' -the 80 came first-around 1980-ish and was the first new PAW for nearly 20 years. There were a number of variants though-plain bearing, single ball bearing, and a very few twin BB-as well as the 'Vintage Classic 80' [whatever that means!][Physically it means a PAW 80 with a single rear exhaust, single BB shaft and a nice polished spinner nut-but I've never seen any description of where it is different internally from the normal 80]. The box states 'Hi torque' as well so one might assume the timing has been altered or possibly even the S/B ratio. Both 80 and 100 models were superseded by the 049 and 06 screw in versions, after the commercial success of the 55 which IIRC was introduced in the mid 80's-85 or 86. The 049 and 061 followed ca 1994.

Mr Cox-quite right-only the three smallest PAWs are screw in, the 09 up are bolt down cylinder and fins. I've read somewhere that the bolt centres are different for the 149 and 09 models, meaning you can't interchange them....and perhaps other components as well.......

ChrisM
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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/15/2012 10:06 PM   
fiery


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Chris, most informative.



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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/16/2012 4:46 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: offline 		Here is the "Racing Green" 1cc engine. It is a pitty they stopped making the anodizing, I could imaging paying a little extra for that. The mufflers are additional options, so why not have anodizing as an extra feature too.



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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/16/2012 7:32 PM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: offline 		Here's a selection of coloured PAWs-ranging from the black 15 Texaco down to a 55 De Luxe. The second photo shows that there is some variation in the production. The lighter coloured R/C 06 was a second hand Ebay purchase, the dark one I bought new here in NZ-it appears the same as Mr Cox's. Note the spinner nuts are also different........both the R/C 049 and 06 were bought as a pair-the instructions for the 06 are over stamped with 'Carlson Engine Imports' at the bottom of the first page. A case of simple time fading of the colour-or a different batch of anodised components..........?

ChrisM
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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/16/2012 7:45 PM   
ffkiwi


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Cox

Here is the ''Racing Green'' 1cc engine. It is a pitty they stopped making the anodizing, I could imaging paying a little extra for that. The mufflers are additional options, so why not have anodizing as an extra feature too.




This is exactly what DC did with the Merlin and Super Merlin after a period-the Merlin was the economy model-no anodising, no integral tank, no spinner, the Super Merlin had all 3. Internally they were the same. I forget what the price differential was-but it wasn't much. Presumably competition drove this-the Merlin originally appeared in 1954 with a red head, but no tank or spinner, and was well accepted, and pretty much had the market to itself (the Mills 75 was relatively expensive) till the Frog 80 appeared in 1957. IIRC the Frog was cheaper than the Merlin and in its Mk2 version was the cheapest diesel on the UK market. No doubt this did impact on DC's sales and they must have decided to offer two versions. Both Frog and DC I think were caught unawares when the ultra cheap ED Pep 0.8cc hit the market in the early sixties-(1963?)luckily for them the Pep proved a flash in the pan...........and as a consequence is highly sought after these days.

ChrisM
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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/16/2012 9:01 PM   
gcb



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Status: offline 		Here are pics of the PAW .08 three bolt head version in CL and RC...sorry for the poor pic of the RC version.

George


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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/16/2012 9:13 PM   
gcb



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quote:

ORIGINAL: cubflyman

Hi Guys; I have an old E-Z just mount, and have taken the carrage bolt out and put it in from the top. and put a nut and washer on the bottom, giving clearence for the muffler on some engines. just a thought. Tom P.


Yes, I ran into that situation with a couple of .10's and decided to break-in small engines without the muffler. When I bought some NORVEL .049's and .061's I also got a tank mount and screwed it to a board, then held the board with a BIG "C" clamp...it didn't go anywhere.

George

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 12:35 AM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		OK group change of countries made in USA Cox front intake ( medallion I think) 6x3 white tornado prop Davis head teflon disc davis 1/2 A fuel NO spring starter on it
after a prime and about 20 quick snap flips off it went martin

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 7:25 AM   
Mr Cox



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Status: offline 		They may well fire, if you are lucky, but I have never managed to get any flying out of the teflon seal heads. I cannot get them too seal. The head is either too loose, and leaks because of that, or when tightened the head flattens and punches through the teflon and then it leaks because of that. With a metal gasket though they can run, I have gotten up to ten tanks and then the seal/disk needs replacement.

The RJL is better then as it has an o-ring that seals the counter piston.



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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 2:24 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Mr Cox I think the Davis Cox conversion has been around since 1975 and many thousands have had success, yes the RJL in conventional in design, I think it is interesting that Cox international made and is selling direct copies of the Davis Cox conversions I would expect this of China but not Canada but I guess imitation is a form of flattery martin

the killer crank is a good idea eliminates the issue of breaking the standard cox crank, even in glow use a good idea

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 2:42 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: offline 		I have not seen any successful Davis cox conversions around here, and have my own experience with the teflon disk that says that it is a very bad design from the start.
Why someone Canada would copy it, I cannot see any other reason other than a lower production cost, compared to a proper head. For the end user the RJL heads are superior in every aspect.

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 2:46 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Mr Cox I understand some folks have backed up the teflon with a thin aluminium one over it martin

you still have the perfect seal no blowby cut from a beer or soda can

Mr Davis is very quality orinated and ethical, he did make a head sometime back for the TT07 which is a pretty badly preforming engine on glow the diesel head did not help and he dropped it from production, the cox engines production was in the millions over the years and he has sold thousands of his conversions

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 3:18 PM   
Mr Cox



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quote:

ORIGINAL: AMB

Mr Cox I understand some folks have backed up the teflon with a thin aluminium one over it martin

you still have the perfect seal no blowby cut from a beer or soda can



Yes, with no teflon and an aluminium disk from a soda can, you get to run a tank or two before the gasket is shot. A brass disk will last a little longer, possibly up to about ten, depending on the thickness of the brass.

In comparison the RJL head is a dream to use and adjust.

What type of head did he make for the TT07, a Teflon style too?

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 3:35 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		The TT 07 was the conventional Davis design, I had one, thikk it went with the engine "down under" a re work of liner porting may help Davis thought crankshaft timing off also I cannot understand why TT could not get these issues fixed, too bad very nicely made engine and carb
understand they did make an update of the original looked nice but no better as a runner I had the updated one martin

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 4:07 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: offline 		The updated TT07 are quite nice engines, they fixed several issues, while the regular glow plug still gives away a little on the outright power. With a turbo-plug they are in between the Norvel .061 and .074 in terms of power. On the regular glow plug they can at least match the Norvel .061 on a 6x3 prop, and they throttle better.

Here are some numbers with a turbo-plug head (and about 10% nitro fuel);

Graupner 6x3; 18700 rpm
APC 7x3; 16700rpm

Here is a short video on the 7x3 prop. Incidentally the wooden mount and work-mate are there too. Keeps this on-topic




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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 4:33 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Mr Cox decent numbers maybe this needs a relook for a diesel conversion I had gotten mine used it very well may have been an early edition should have held onto the head martin

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 9:07 PM   
Mr Cox



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Status: offline 		If it was used then it may well have been abused too. They are prone to overheating and need fullcastor fuel. I've also added a baffle in the muffler on mine to improve the fuel draw.

What happened to the head you had?
It would be a pity if a worn out engine alone gave it a bad reputation as a diesel.

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RE: test stand for the little ones - 11/17/2012 9:37 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Mr Cox not sure. but think Fiery has it now martin

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