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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/21/2012 3:02 PM   
hrdflite


 

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From: tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		by the way are you building an arrow or an aeromaster nice first sentance for arrow build thread


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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/21/2012 3:21 PM   
dphillips3


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hrdflite

the ARROW is a QUALITY LINE KIT  that we own the rights to do not plagerize the ARROW .autherized kits avalable from HOBBY BARN/quality line kits.. fly the real thing not a lousy copy.P.S my ad comes out in FLY RC  march issue.   thanks ROB at HOBBY BARN/QUALITY LINE KITS.


apparently this was not directed at me. (I hope) I was just the last person to reply to this forum before you made your statement. I just don't take it well when somebody calls an airplane that I am extremely proud of PLAGERIZED JUNK. Maybe you should tell us a little more about who is copying what? Some of us know but not everyone. How about clearing the air for us.

DP#3

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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/21/2012 4:35 PM   
stuntflyr



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Status: offline 		There is no air to clear, Dave. 
It's all public domain, it doesn't matter who makes what. Wolfgang sold the design to MK. It was all wood at first. That left it wide open to copy in fibreglass by anyone. 5 or more U. S. outfits made one through the 80's with various names, so all of them were bootlegs if one was. Anyone that says they have "permission" is pulling your leg. Don ran it by his lawyer, it's a non-issue.
I know you usually build old kits and restore old models, the Tucson guy was referring to Don's mention of his own kit of the Arrow which is a splash off of another kit from the 80's outfit long defunct. I buy from Don because he's local and a friend, but I think his stuff is tops and he is swamped with orders because he produces.
Chris...


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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/21/2012 5:24 PM   
dphillips3


 

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From: Adger, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Chris!
I feel like you do. I just wanted to see his take on this and why his is superior to all the other knockoffs.
I got caught in the crossfire due to lack of forum etiquette.


DP#3



















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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/21/2012 11:44 PM   
flywilly


 

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From: glen allen, VA,
Status: offline 		Hi Chris,
Good response. I asked an attorney friend about this issue and he just laughed when I told him how much money was probably involved. I will pass on a few points he made (after he stopped laughing). First, most copyrights (production rights or whatever you want to generically call them) have an expiration date and since the Arrow was originally designed in '77 or '78 and the agreement with Quality Line probably occurred in the early 80's; well, it's been at least 30 years. Second, the plans to build the airplane were published in M.A.N. in 1979 which pretty much makes them public domain from that point on. Third, the cost of litigating this issue makes the whole disagreement completely laughable.
I will just add that the Quality Line molds have been sitting around for a couple of decades not producing a kit or a dime of profit. They should be elated that they can make a few more bucks from them. Don at rcaiir can't be profit motivated - he's still in the red and creating new kits (at his expense) on a regular basis. He just loves classic pattern and we are all benefiting, otherwise we'd be beating each other up for the occasional classic kit on ebay or stuck flying the Hangar 9 Phoenix or Tower Dirty Birdy (OK there are a few other sources: Eureka, etc. but good glass kits are hard to find). Hopefully everybody can make enough money to stay happy and we can continue to have a terrific selection of classic pattern kits available.
-Will

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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/21/2012 11:46 PM   
countilaw



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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuntflyr

There is no air to clear, Dave. 
It's all public domain, it doesn't matter who makes what. Wolfgang sold the design to MK. It was all wood at first. That left it wide open to copy in fibreglass by anyone. 5 or more U. S. outfits made one through the 80's with various names, so all of them were bootlegs if one was. Anyone that says they have "permission" is pulling your leg. Don ran it by his lawyer, it's a non-issue.
I know you usually build old kits and restore old models, the Tucson guy was referring to Don's mention of his own kit of the Arrow which is a splash off of another kit from the 80's outfit long defunct. I buy from Don because he's local and a friend, but I think his stuff is tops and he is swamped with orders because he produces.
Chris...



Chris,  I'm going to disagree with you and here's a couple of examples:

The company "Year One"  makes   copies of the 1957 Chevrolet and it's labeled   57 Chevrolet.   They pay Chevrolet royalties to do so.   

If you make a T-Shirt and put   "Texas Rangers"  on it, you must pay the  Baseball Club a royalty to do so.

If you make a  woman's bag that looks like a  Gucci  and it says  Gucci,  you must pay Gucci a royalty.      If you don't it's called   CopyRight infrigement and it's a  crime. 

Hobby Barn had permission (license) to product the "Magic" in the 80's as it does today.   And they pay a royalty to Prettner for using his design and the name.  

If it looks like a  Magic and bears the name Magic,  then it's a pirated copyright.    Just like copying  Windows 7 and putting it on your computer. It's called  "pirating" or  "copyright infringement".   Which is a crime.

So what  Don is doing is  wrong.      It's someone else's  design and their name.   

Frank







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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/22/2012 12:30 AM   
MTK



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quote:

ORIGINAL: KLXMASTER14

Oh boy,
Here we go again. Grown men arguing about the vast fortune at stake from who owns (an ancient) toy airplane design. Really?

I have the solution- I'm going to design a NEW "Classic" pattern airplane. Then you can all copy me!!! Ha Ha. Flame suit on.
-Robert


Isn't that the truth,,,,,Geesh!!

On your "NEW" classic, all I can say is, not fair. You have plus 30 years of history to bank on for better and improved. On the other hand, don't screw the pooch or every one will chuckle at ya.......


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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/22/2012 2:27 AM   
KLXMASTER14



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quote:

ORIGINAL: MTK


quote:

ORIGINAL: KLXMASTER14

Oh boy,
Here we go again. Grown men arguing about the vast fortune at stake from who owns (an ancient) toy airplane design. Really?

I have the solution- I'm going to design a NEW ''Classic'' pattern airplane. Then you can all copy me!!! Ha Ha. Flame suit on.
-Robert


Isn't that the truth,,,,,Geesh!!

On your ''NEW'' classic, all I can say is, not fair. You have plus 30 years of history to bank on for better and improved. On the other hand, don't screw the pooch or every one will chuckle at ya.......


Matt,
It wouldn't be the first time that I've been the victim of my own stupidity.....

And not the last!!! That's just how I "roll".

-Robert

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West Coast Regional Director- Classic Pattern Assn

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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/22/2012 3:05 AM   
flywilly


 

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From: glen allen, VA,
Status: offline 		If you make a woman's bag that looks like a Gucci and it says Gucci, you must pay Gucci a royalty. If you don't it's called CopyRight infrigement and it's a crime.

Nope. That is TRADEMARK infringement.

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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/22/2012 3:31 AM   
hrdflite


 

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From: tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		hey  you know would be fun let have some pattern contests and do some flying.


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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/22/2012 3:36 AM   
PatternPilot



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Status: offline 		I'm all for contest !!

s.

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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/23/2012 3:29 PM   
hrdflite


 

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From: tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		whoe does the roundest loop,you,?me,?him? lets find out.


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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/23/2012 4:13 PM   
PatternPilot



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From: Knoxville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		lets make it 3 loops inside or outside ?

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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/23/2012 7:38 PM   
KLXMASTER14



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quote:

ORIGINAL: hrdflite

hey  you know would be fun let have some pattern contests and do some flying.



Amen, Brother. Now we're cooking with gas! No wait- let's make it nitro.
-Robert

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West Coast Regional Director- Classic Pattern Assn

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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/23/2012 8:34 PM   
stuntflyr



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From: Pacific Palisades, CA, USA
Status: offline 		OK, I'll take that. Let's fly models.
Chris...


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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/23/2012 9:16 PM   
Aurora_60



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From: kaneohe, HI, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hrdflite

the ARROW is a QUALITY LINE KIT  that we own the rights to do not plagerize the ARROW .autherized kits avalable from HOBBY BARN/quality line kits.. fly the real thing not a lousy copy.P.S my ad comes out in FLY RC  march issue.   thanks ROB at HOBBY BARN/QUALITY LINE KITS.


hrd,
Are you making the Arrow with the Original Hobby Barn molds?
Are you bringing back any other kits from Hobby Barn?

DM

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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/23/2012 10:04 PM   
Aurora_60



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From: kaneohe, HI, USA
Status: offline 		I just called Hobby Barn. What a great bunch of guys!
They are using the original molds and bringing out the old 80s line. They're even making a couple ducted fan planes too!!
Great News!!
NO More intesive labor trying to restore these old kits! Or trying to find one for that matter.
Now if Indy could come back and pressure Masahiro for the MK kits....

Hobby Barn-
I cant remember which ones I've already got, but I know I don't have an Arrow.
Could you post some pics of the kit? I understand these are short kits, right?


DM

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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/24/2012 5:25 PM   
doxilia



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurora_60

Now if Indy could come back and pressure Masahiro for the MK kits....

DM

David,

Sadly, MK has officially closed its doors. No more production of accessories either.

David


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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/25/2012 1:23 AM   
Aurora_60



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From: kaneohe, HI, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, I think Masahiro just wants to enjoy his flying nowdays. But if the market keeps growing, who knows what could happen.


DM

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RE: Arrow 60 - 11/25/2012 2:08 AM   
flywilly


 

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From: glen allen, VA,
Status: offline 		MK stopped making kits about 3 years before they closed their doors. The limited availability and prohibitive cost of contest grade balsa made it difficult (if not impossible) for MK to maintain their extremely high standards and keep prices reasonable. I don't think I've ever seen a flaw in any piece of wood in an MK kit. Plus the continued strength of the Yen against the dollar would make kit prices quite high here. I believe MK was looking into converting their kit manufacturing process to laser cutting (with the exception of the few specialty wood pieces found in every kit) about 5-6 years ago. The cost of upgrading their equipment plus the declining interest in kit building probably also contributed to their decision.
I have not seen a Eureka short kit, but at least there is still a wood alternative to some of the MK classics.
-Will

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RE: Arrow 60 - 12/16/2012 3:24 AM   
Yak13


 

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Status: offline 		 I searched for Quality Kits and Hobby Barn on Google. Nothing to locate either one. Is the Arrow kit available from them? Price? Availability?
Thanks



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RE: Arrow 60 - 12/16/2012 3:34 AM   
doxilia



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Status: offline 		Actually if you type "hobby barn Tucson" in Google it will be the first hit you get. The web site is down, but the address and phone number is there. Contact Rob (RCU: hrdflite)

You might also want to check out this thread as it is active and Rob has just posted some Arrow 800 (Granat) and Super Arrow fuse pictures:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11307350/tm.htm

David


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RE: Arrow 60 - 12/16/2012 4:05 AM   
Yak13


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Dave 

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