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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/22/2012 4:12 PM   
jaka


 

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Removeing bearings is easy!
Just use a propane torch and slam the crankcase against a wooden surface. If the rear beraring does not loosen. Put the crankcase under cold water tap and then heat it once again. Do this repeatedly if the bearing doesn't get loose.

To instal a bearing; just heat the crankcase, put the rear bearing on the crankshaft and install the crankshaft in the crankcase.
Never use a bearing puller and try to loosen the bearing in a cold crankcase!

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/22/2012 10:39 PM   
mike early



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Status: offline 		The bearing puller is only for the thrust washer/drive flange...


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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/23/2012 6:56 PM   
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Status: offline 		When I reassemble an engine I install the rear bearing on the crank first. Then heat the crankcase slightly. Now drop the crank and bearing into the case. The crankshaft will help the bearing seat squarely in the case. Now slide the front bearing onto the shaft and again with a warm case the bearing should more or less slide right in. I think it is important to use the crankshaft as a "alignment tool" for the bearing installation.

Of course this is all much eaiser with clean dry parts. I only oil when I'm in the final assembly of the engine, like right before I install the back plate.

Ken

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/23/2012 8:34 PM   
jaka


 

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Just like I do!

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/25/2012 3:46 PM   
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I've not had so much luck with removing the rear bearing in the past. I've got a O.S. .91 four stroke sitting in a box with a rear bearing that refused to come out. No amount of heating and hitting against a wood surface worked. I looked at sending it in a having it worked on and the cost for them to simply look at it was $80; much-less the cost to work on it (approx. $80 an hour). So I ended up ordering a new crankcase.


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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/25/2012 5:04 PM   
jaka


 

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The secret is to heat the case and then cooling it in water...and repeating this process many times.

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/25/2012 8:36 PM   
blw



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Status: offline 		Have you tried oven heating? Putting the crankcase in an oven at 300F is a good start. Using pot holder gloves, take the crank out and hit a 2x4 to shake out the bearings. I've had to use up to 350F for stubborn ones.

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/25/2012 9:49 PM   
apwachholz



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@jaka
Hmm… I'll have to give that a whirl later this week. I suppose the process of heat, cool, repeat, would cause the crankcase to expand and shrink enough to break any "seal" that the bearing had to the crankcase.
 
@blw
I've also done the oven with the O.S. .91 four stroke but, to no avail. However, given that most everyone is saying the process might need to be repeated over and over again - that could be a solid removal method as well. What I can say is that I haven't tried the "H.G.S Method*" of bearing removal, yet. That's why I'm headed to Home Depot to nab a 2x4 chunk of wood. Time of focus my holiday frustrations on bearing removal. Ha, ha…!!
 
(*Heat, Grab, Slam)


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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/25/2012 11:00 PM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		When I have to deal with an especially stubborn rear bearing I use a special tool...one that I made out of a cheap-old screwdriver.
I took a long shanked narrow bladed common (flat blade ) screwdriver and bent the last 1/8" of the tip over 90 degrees and sharpened it. I heat the case, then remove the front brg. first...then, if necessary, re-heat the case...then place on hunk of 2x4 w/ front brg. opening pointing up. I then go down into the F. opening and catch the inner race of the rear brg. w/ the bent over edge of the screwdriver...a few taps w/ a light hammer...sometimes I need to reposition the tool 180 deg. to not get the brg. tilted as it comes out.
This procedure has never failed in the many dozens of bearing changes I've done for myself and others.

Edit: I use a cheap, "Dollar Store" type screwdriver that doesn't have a good-hardened blade...cost me something like a couple bucks for a set of 4 of 'em...and the thing has been re-bent and sharpened a few times over the years. (works every time though...)


When I install new bearings, I use pretty much the same method as Ken in post #28

< Message edited by proptop -- 11/26/2012 3:29 PM >

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/25/2012 11:04 PM   
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Status: offline 		Get yourself a small good quality steel drift punch and from the front of the case (minus front bearing)hook the edge of the inner race on the rear bearing and drive it out by working the pin punch around the inner surface while tapping it with a good hammer,don't be too gentle sometimes they need a good progressive walloping,just like a mate of mine

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/26/2012 1:43 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Get yourself a small good quality steel drift punch and from the front of the case (minus front bearing)hook the edge of the inner race on the rear bearing and drive it out by working the pin punch around the inner surface while tapping it with a good hammer,don't be too gentle sometimes they need a good progressive walloping,just like a mate of mine
[/quot

)hook the edge of the inner race on the rear bearing and drive it out.....???

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/26/2012 2:47 AM   
kenh3497



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Status: offline 		If you not going to save the bearing than any means to get the old bearing out will work. A hammer and punch come to mind first thing. Just don't drive on one side only. Alternate back and forth from side to side. (not front and back)

Ken

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/26/2012 4:27 AM   
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Status: offline 		Seems like I read you can heat the case and tap the case fairly fast onto a block of wood...and the bearing will fall out.  Not sure....check around some.   Capt,n

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/26/2012 1:29 PM   
mike early



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Status: offline 		Get the old 91 case out and remove the bearings and report back to us.

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/26/2012 4:07 PM   
PropsnWings


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: apwachholz

 @jaka
I've not had so much luck with removing the rear bearing in the past. I've got a O.S. .91 four stroke sitting in a box with a rear bearing that refused to come out. No amount of heating and hitting against a wood surface worked. I looked at sending it in a having it worked on and the cost for them to simply look at it was $80; much-less the cost to work on it (approx. $80 an hour). So I ended up ordering a new crankcase.



Throw it in the oven at about 250* and once heated the bearing will fall out. 

If heating this way, there is less likely  a chance for damage than using torches as some do. 



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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/26/2012 4:25 PM   
smiller


 

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Status: offline 		Yes, oven works much better than a torch. The oven Heats the case evenly. I do 300 degrees for half hour, bearings fall out with light taps on a block of wood. To reinstall, I bag and freeze the bearings and reheat the case. Bearings fall back in and I use the crankshaft to reseat them.

Scott

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/26/2012 9:55 PM   
apwachholz



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Perhaps I have the devil's bearing stuck in my O.S. .91 or the gods of model aviation are displeased with my decline in airplane sacrifices but, I've heated by torch and by oven (250-325F) and have had no success. Granted the only thing I haven't used is an actual 2x4 for a surface to hit it on but, I'm not sure that'll help.
 
I also can't go in through the front of the crankcase (front bearing is removed) to tap it out either because the inside diameter of the rear bearing is so close to the crankcase wall that I run the risk of damaging the crankcase wall. Honestly, I'm not sure how they expected anyone to remove it.
 
I think I'll try it again. It's been a year and perhaps my new, and what I foresee as "magical" 2x4 will change things!

@Proptop / Old Fart
I never thought of that either. Jeez, one would think that I'd at least ponder the concept of using a screwdriver or a tap. That would work great on my Saito's and other engines but, not so much for the .91. This is why I visit RCU frequently - lots of good advice from seasoned modelers.

@smiller
Good call on freezing the bearings for installation. I like that idea - very savvy!


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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/27/2012 3:04 AM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		The I.D. of the rear bearing's inner race of virtually every engine out there is flush with the crank bore in the case. A drift or center punch won't usually get enough "purchase" on the inner race (BTDT )

The bent over and thinned tip of the screwdriver WILL catch on the edge of the bearing's inner race....just a bit of care is required of course to keep from marring the case's crank bore...give it a try...

TBH, the slamming down of a heated case (method ) has always bugged me a bit...seems kind of unnecessarily violent...

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/27/2012 3:35 AM   
apwachholz



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Yeah, I'll agree that the slamming down of the crankcase does seem a bit violent. I guess I'm a kinder, gentler soul then that and I've been attempting to use precision sizing on wooden dowels to run through the bore of the crankcase. Going from back bearing to front seems to typically work flawlessly; it's the reverse that seems to be a bit more complicated.

As far as the complications, perhaps your method might be the best for my O.S. .91. Why? Take a peek at the pix (attached) and you'll notice that from the front - looking in to see the rear bearing - the bore is flush with the inner ring of the rear bearing. And when I angled the camera you can kind of see the "edge" I have to work with. But again, that's coming at the bearing from an angle. So creating that edge with the screwdriver seems my best bet with this.

How did you bend the screwdriver tip?


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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/27/2012 3:47 AM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		Yep...seen that view many times...

I have a small ALO (Anvil Like Object...) and I pounded the tip over with my 12 oz. ball peen hammer...the same one I use to tap the bearing(s ) out with. A careful grinding job w/ my Dremel, and we're good to go.

The cheap screwdrivers are softer than a good quality one...and I don't feel guilty for "ruining" a good screwdriver... You will need to "touch-up" the tip from time to time, since the steel isn't all that hard.

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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/28/2012 3:56 AM   
apwachholz



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Victory is mine!! I have smite thee oh devil bearings with the power of Grout Getter(R) and clean buring propane heat.
 
Ok, maybe it's a bit over the top but, I am beyond relieved that I have been able to successfully remove BOTH rear bearings from my Saito .62 and my O.S. .91. "So what was the trick that worked for you?", you ask. It was the kinder, gentler approach and the firm but constant tapping of the bearing atop my magical 2x4. Ok, the 2x4 probably had nothing to do with it but, it makes me feel better thinking that. Also, I was digging around in my toolbox and found this Grout Getter with removable tip. It seemed to have a nice diameter and edge to catch the bearings with so, I figured I'd try it. And it worked like a charm. You can see some of the dings from the bearing on the close up pic of the Grout Getter - great tool.
 
Many many many thanks to everyone and their input. I've not only learned many ways to remove the bearings but, also many ways to install them back in as well. I'll keep the thread alive during the rebuild of my Saito but, thankfully my biggest hurdle is now behind me.
 
Awesome!   I love rebuilding engines.


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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 11/28/2012 12:10 PM   
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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 1/23/2013 2:04 AM   
apwachholz



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It has been a while since I posted to this particular thread but, I wanted to give some more thanks to everyone who had ideas to help me along in getting my Saito .62 rebuilt. I've since rebuilt the engine (took me all of a day but a while to find that available day) and what I found extrememly helpful was to put the bearings on ice for a few hours before installation. It worked like a charm!  The front bearing needed some x-tra love taps with a wood dowel to get it set but the rear bearing litterally fell into place using the same method. Either way, a few more pics of the rebuild. Thanks again all.


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RE: Saito Rusted Guts = Lost RPMs? - 1/23/2013 6:05 AM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		Cool! Or as Paris Hilton used to say "That's Hot"...(yeah...I know... )
Glad things worked out for you...

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