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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/2/2012 5:07 PM   
midair02


 

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From: , WI, USA
Status: offline 		RCCA GNAT Rules 9-7-2012

1. Contest: With the exception of the following restrictions, all RCCA A-class rules and scoring will be used. GNAT combat rounds will be 5 minutes in duration.

2. Aircraft: All aircraft will be of the popular GNAT design. The following aspects must be met:
A. Wing constructed out of coroplast.
B. The leading edge of the wing must be folded over or have the flutes running with the wingspan or have the exposed flutes of tapered wings covered with tape.
C. Maximum wingspan of 34 inches.
D. Maximum chord of 13 inches.
E. Fuselage length of 24 inches.
F. Equipped with horizontal and vertical stabilizers.
G. Equipped with aileron, elevator and throttle control.

3. Power Plants and Propellers: Only engines legal for SSC will be allowed. Electrics will be allowed. All aircraft will use a non-modified Master Airscrew 8x3 prop. To ensure electrics are on a level playing field with glow engines, the Contest Director will randomly tach 3 aircraft prior to the start of each day of the contest. The highest RPM attained will be the maximum RPM for Electrics for that day. Electric motors shall be tached and the ATV adjusted so that the maximum RPMs are not exceeded prior to each flight.

4. Sticky fluids/sprays, double sided tape and sandpaper/tread tape are NOT allowed. Notches in wingtips and tail feathers are allowed.



Broke down to the basics:
1. Normal RCCA scoring system
2. Looks like a GNAT
3. SSC motor (popular are OS LA .15 and Magnum XLS .15) and prop (MAS 8x3)
4. NO STICKY STUFF!!!


To keep it simple, there are no weight restrictions and no RPM restrictions. Section 3 does limit electrics to what glows are turning so electrics don't have an advantage over glow.



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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/2/2012 11:56 PM   
Tom Nied



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Status: online 		I got a question. I notice the above GNAT rules state fuselage length 24". The GNAT plans show the aluminum U channel as being 24" with the cutting board motor mount extending beyond the 24". I'm guessing it's not a big deal but I'd like to be clear on this.

Once while flying Indoor Free Flight at a contest, my "Easy Bee" was disqualified because my planes chord was 1/16" too long. Only because I followed the plan that came with my kit and through many copies had gained the extra dimension.

Maybe I'll never enter a combat session, but I'd like this plane to be RCCA GNAT legal. Line #2 in basics states, " Looks like a GNAT ". So maybe it's not such a big deal.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/3/2012 2:38 AM   
DaneMcGee



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Status: offline 		I think the intention is to build per the plan, which calls for a 24" piece of alum U channel.




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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/3/2012 3:10 AM   
Bill Rademacher



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Status: offline 		My only comment is that we started with the cg at 4 and 1/4 inches back, and they flew, but like snot. We moved the CG forward and they flew better and better with each adjustment. I don't remember our final setting, but try it out if you are not happy with the flight characteristics.

billrad


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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/3/2012 4:53 AM   
Tom Nied



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Status: online 		Hmm, that makes sense. Might consider trying 3 3/4". Might be more to my liking, as far as flying. I do wonder what amount of throw up and down for the elevator and ailerons.

< Message edited by Tom Nied -- 12/3/2012 5:56 AM >

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/3/2012 12:37 PM   
blindfaithnogod


 

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Status: offline 		I would start with
1/2" up and down elevator
1/2"-3/4" up and down aileron

That said I have not built one of these yet, but that's about what I setup my other combat ships to.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/3/2012 12:47 PM   
DaneMcGee



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Status: offline 		The CG on the plan is wrong. It calls for 4 1/4"

It should be 3 3/4"..... Start there with control surface travel as Paul suggested then as you feel comfortable with the bird switch to high rates with all the control travel that it will throw.


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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/3/2012 2:50 PM   
kenh3497



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quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

I'm looking for a ''class'' where the wing loading is light enough so that when planes go down into a field of chest high alfalfa, the planes never reach the ground and the engines keep running.
A class where the action looks more like dog fighting and less like high speed jousting.
Where you can fly all day [120 combat minutes] with no fatal mid airs..and if you do, the planes can be repaired right there on the spot with CA glue and clear packing tape.
A class where there isn't enough kinetic energy to routinely strip out servos or do serious engine damage.



Maybe this???? http://combat.eavesonline.com/ 150 watts per pound so like a 3D plane for performance. It is electric though so may not appeal to all. The motor specified is becoming hard to find. There are motors that will substitute though.

Ken

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/4/2012 4:25 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		Thanks for showing that Ken. Ive heard of FFF Combat but never have seen it. I didn't realize they were so big. Very clever and well thought out. I'll bet it's popular enough to get "Glow Guys" to buy in.


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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/4/2012 5:14 AM   
midair02


 

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Status: offline 		Like Dane said,

U-channel 24 inches

Start with CG at 3 3/4" and what Paul said for throws. You should set up high rates for as much throw as you can get. The beauty of these planes is that they can slow furball, kind of a aerial ballet when you get a couple of good pilots 3-D'ing it out in the sky.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/13/2012 3:49 AM   
Tom Nied



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Status: online 		Dane, do you still put the 18" x 5/32 music wire spar in the wings that you just fold and mount to the bottom of the fuse, like the Red wing Gnat you pictured earlier? Not sure if it needs it if the holes in the wing coro aren't made. Thanks.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/13/2012 11:47 AM   
DaneMcGee



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Nied

Dane, do you still put the 18'' x 5/32 music wire spar in the wings that you just fold and mount to the bottom of the fuse, like the Red wing Gnat you pictured earlier? Not sure if it needs it if the holes in the wing coro aren't made. Thanks.


Yes, I used 1/8" fiberglass rod x18" long for the spar........ I had no music wire

I believe that without the spars, the wing would fold.


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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/15/2012 9:48 PM   
boiler1


 

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Status: offline 		I have used 1/8th inch fiber glass rods and the music wire. No difference in strength but the FG rods are much easier to install with a little polyurathane glue. Put a piece of tape over each end of the flute to keep the glue in till it dries.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/15/2012 9:52 PM   
boiler1


 

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Status: offline 		I have used FG rod and music wire. Same strength but the FG rod is easier to cut and install.Put some polyurathane glue in the flute with the rod and tape the ends of the flute until the glue cures.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/15/2012 11:59 PM   
Tom Nied



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Status: online 		I would think fiberglass rods would be lighter. And where do you find fiberglass rods? Online?

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/16/2012 12:13 AM   
DaneMcGee



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Nied

.................... And where do you find fiberglass rods? Online?



........Kite builders supply like GoodWinds.com


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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/16/2012 12:15 AM   
Tom Nied



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Status: online 		Is carbon fiber rod overkill?

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/23/2012 6:41 PM   
Tom Nied



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Status: online 		Found this drop ceiling molding that cuts real easy.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/23/2012 9:07 PM   
boiler1


 

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Status: offline 		That stuff isn't too brittle compared to gutter pipe. It might be a little more brittle than fencepost but it it not warping like the post material. Thanks for the suggestion. I like the T shape compared to the L shape.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/23/2012 9:46 PM   
Tom Nied



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Status: online 		As far as I can tell, it appears to be PVC. I was specifically looking for a nice tight 90 degree strip. Found it at Lowes home improvement store. Came in a 8" length, I think.

It was marked on clearance (under $2), I should buy more.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 12/23/2012 10:34 PM   
Tom Nied



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Status: online 		Appears to be ACP White Ceiling Grid Component. Which is supposedly high quality PVC . I'm going to give it a try. Didn't mean to hijack this thread, but while looking for materials, I ran across this.

You can see how I was able to cut out two nice angle pieces for mounting vertical and horizontal stabilizer.


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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 1/3/2013 2:22 AM   
Tom Nied



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Status: online 		Now that the holidays are over, back to the GNAT. It's coming along.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 1/14/2013 9:11 PM   
Don B.H.



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Status: offline 		So I put one together and they do fly combat pritty good as I went up with Bob who came down from Ohio and we put on a show.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 1/15/2013 1:02 AM   
boiler1


 

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Status: offline 		I flew mine with Craig Buttery in December in West Palm Beach. It was a short match as he made a direct hit to the center of my wing slicing through the chord and spliting the hing on the aileron. I shoved a bamboo skewer in the one flutes at the field. Since we didn't have any more time before the 2948 scale event I left it at that. When I got home I smeared Outdoor Goop in the rest of the slit and place some fiberglass cloth over the hing and fixed it in place with some more goop. Good as new in about 5 minutes of repair time.

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RE: New SPAD Combat Class - 1/15/2013 5:10 AM   
Tom Nied



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Status: online 		Don B.H., I'm surprised you didn't end up moving the wing back a bit. I'm at the point in the process where I am deliberating where exactly where the wing is going to mount. I'm guessing at this point 3/8" back from the engine mount. But I haven't had the time to really pin that down. Soon will have some time to play with that. Thanks for sharing. Tom

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