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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 8:00 AM   
DeviousDave


 

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ORIGINAL: aspeed

A 7-10'' used to be the right prop for a B Speed when you could use 80% nitro.  Now a 7-8'' seems to be the one.  I think they are about 24,000 rpm in the air. MJD, I am a long way from Orangeville now.. I used to be in Waterloo. Really there are no fields that are paved near here anyway, maybe River Rouge in Detroit, but a bulletproof vest and a gun are needed.  I am likely closer to Devious Dave in Michigan now.  I am/was? a machinist and don't get around to making much stuff either.  I got most of the stuff in the shop if I feel like doing things though.


C'mon down, I got the gun thing covered! We'll have a range day too-you can shoot my machine gun! I live in Detroit but my property is in northern MI, big enough to shoot on and there is a 225 x 450 meter gravel pit on state land down the road.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 8:06 AM   
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Status: offline 		DD, the economy is like a festering, infected zit that keeps building pressure..building until finally someday it's going to erupt. There are simply not enough people producing tangible goods to support the 2/3rds of society that produces nothing but paper work and or less to show than that.


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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 8:09 AM   
DeviousDave


 

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ORIGINAL: forsakenrider

yeah, he said to do it to get the pitch you want and then JB weld on the counter weight. I was wondering how the hole works out after, but I guess you just put it TLAR and then balance it.

I guess these guys don't dynamically balance their props?

I had a hell of a time doing it for Sp400 pylon. I was looking for a way forward with the 4.8V wind motor on 6 cells. It was blazing fast on a 4.5-4.1 but the motors lasted only 2 flights. The event died before I found a solution-the props were just so light that by the time you got any kind of counterweight on them there was no protrustion outside of the spinner to offset for blade thrust. My next step was to machine material off the spinner skirt but I didn't have a need to after all that. I got 2nd at the NATs that year, my best finish. I might have won but I was psyched out by the guy I was racing against and just wanted to get the airplane home to hang up-I didn't even try to stay with him, just cruised the last flight. My competitor has been racing longer than I have been alive, I didn't think I had a chance so why risk the airplane? (we fly really low) Turned out that I could have beat him on horsepower if I flew reasonably clean but by the time I got my head in the game and saw red it was too late. I'm still happy about it.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 8:10 AM   
DeviousDave


 

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ORIGINAL: combatpigg

DD, the economy is like a festering, infected zit that keeps building pressure..building until finally someday it's going to erupt. There are simply not enough people producing tangible goods to support the 2/3rds of society that produces nothing but paper work and or less to show than that.



Yeah, I think we're on the same page.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 5:05 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		As far as the one bladed props are concerned, the dia. you buy is not important because you will need to trim them to your desired size anyway.  You pretty much need to pick your pitch or get a variety of props to try. A single blade can have a slightly large dia. than a two bladed prop to have the same load.  I don't think the 1/2A speed guys motors were going much over 30 to 35,000 rpm at the nat's.  The props were quite small I thought.  I think they are on 10% nitro now.  They weren't running the Profi's though.  Mostly Picco, CS/GZ and a home made one.  I just run up my CS a while ago with 10% nitro and was very dissapointed.  It was fairly good with the nitro before.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 5:12 PM   
MJD



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Status: offline 		That's kinda what I was wondering - how much more diameter for the same pitch would have the same shaft load. Makes sense that you can have a bit more disc area. I think I would be more comfortable keeping the hub faces flat and tweaking diameter and/or pitch to get the engine on song.

Yeah, I would imagine the unpiped guys are running mid 30's to be competitive.

A 1/2A RC speed model is just too small for an inflight mixture control I think.. but maybe not? Hate to cook a p/l due to crappy needling on a piped engine.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 5:32 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		Most of the 1/2A speeds with the CS/GZ are piped.  They are very critical of prop load and pipe length and will not really work at all if either one is off.  The ground setting and air setting are usually much different because the setting while on the pipe needs to be much richer than normal.  In a control line model this is done by insetting the tank so the centrifugal force makes it richer when it speeds up.  It usually means a thin small tank to be inboard of the needle valve and is adjusted with shims or screws.  An inflight adjustment on an rc might be good if it works well and isn't heavy.  It would be good to have a cutoff in case the setting is too lean so it won't fry the motor.  Without a pipe this wouldn't be needed.(unless it is just too fast and gets away on you, which would be a problem for me)  Once they are on the pipe they are pretty wild, almost sounding like a twin.  As far as how much dia.a single blade might want, I would guess 1/4"?

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 6:26 PM   
DeviousDave


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aspeed

A 7-10'' used to be the right prop for a B Speed when you could use 80% nitro.  Now a 7-8'' seems to be the one.  I think they are about 24,000 rpm in the air. MJD, I am a long way from Orangeville now.. I used to be in Waterloo. Really there are no fields that are paved near here anyway, maybe River Rouge in Detroit, but a bulletproof vest and a gun are needed.  I am likely closer to Devious Dave in Michigan now.  I am/was? a machinist and don't get around to making much stuff either.  I got most of the stuff in the shop if I feel like doing things though.


Wow, you are really close! I live in Westland until the end of the year, then I move to Waterford.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 6:54 PM   
forsakenrider


 

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Status: offline 		I wish there was more pictures of the nats. I want to see what those 1/2a guys are running!!!

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 6:59 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		Just thinking back a bit for props.  There used to be a wood Revup prop I think.  that was a 4&1/4"-7"  It was a bit too much of a load for even a TD.  Anyway I got some line sizes and formulas fron the Nat's.  It is upside down,

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 7:10 PM   
MJD



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quote:

ORIGINAL: aspeed
An inflight adjustment on an rc might be good if it works well and isn't heavy. 


They are pretty small, plus add an 8g servo. Could be done, although the available real estate will be minimal - the servo can go in the tail boom and IMC valve up close to the firewall. I use one on my piped .65 delta, and it rocks. Start up a bit rich, lean for launch, then richen up again as it picks up speed and climbs out. Not that I have it mastered.. but it is great to be able to fine tune in the air. Only toasted one plug so far.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 7:33 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		These are pics from last year, and not 1/2A.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 7:36 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		More, some of the faster 1/2A's are the sidewinder types.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 8:32 PM   
MJD



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Status: offline 		Cool pics. If sidewinders work in F2A, why not in 1/2A too.

With crankcase pressure, does the tank offset make that much difference?


For RC speed, I'll have to stick with symmetry. Other than maybe the prop, that is.


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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 8:45 PM   
forsakenrider


 

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Status: offline 		I really wish control line was popular! I would love to get into profile proto!

RC speed is good fun, but I enjoy building more then flying, and that causes me to get a little too reckless too quick resulting in a tree...

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 11/30/2012 8:47 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		Sidewinders are good with 1/2A, Backplate pressure isn't normally used.  We used to have a centrifugal fuel switch for the air setting with backplate pressure.  They are not available any more and were a lot of trouble anyway.  Normal suction is normally used for the control line speed with pipes and bladders or sometimes backplate pressure with unpiped.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 12/1/2012 12:24 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		Awesome photos, aspeed..! Thanks for taking the time to post them.
Truly out of the box thinking went into this sport.
Young boys have been brought up the past 30 years [post Gloria Steinem era] to think/believe that competition is bad, that it is wrong, that it instills aggressive behavior, to embrace their "female side" etc.
Her mentality is totally out to lunch, competition instills EXCELLENCE and it serves to purify improve the GENETIC POOL when you stop to look at the bigger picture.
Try to picture some young boys of today looking at these photos and getting the overpowering, primordial urge to get their hands dirty and bloody in the pursuit of creating such incredible toys..!


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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 12/3/2012 5:58 AM   
DeviousDave


 

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Status: offline 		That's the great thing about hobbies, they take your mind off the troubles and our perceived injustices in the world... There have been periods in my life where if it weren't for being able to come home to Flying Models on my Lazy Boy and a few sticks of balsa on my workbench that I don't know what would have become of me. Some of my best work, greatest accomplishments have been during times of great personal turmoil and trouble-too bad the rough patches have to come in order to have that happen!

I agree, we are building a society of effeminate weaklings who expect a medal just for showing up, and hard work is ridiculed by everyone around them rather than encouraged. When I was a young lad, I worked hard not just because it was the right thing to do, but because I had toys I wanted to buy! Those toys captured my imagination and taught me to problem solve-many of those problem solving lessons translated into skills that opened doors for me in my career. Modeling certainly has helped from a technical standpoint, and the minimalist/make the most of what you have/economy in design mindset has carried me a long way.. I really don't know what to think of today's teens/20-somethings who have 50% unemployment rates and usually nothing more than an Associates in Video Gaming with little interest in anything else. My Girlfriend's youngest son is like this-he's hard working, active in church, good with people etc., but the kid is going to school to learn to make video games. He's going to come out of college in a saturated job market, having never even pulled the carb off of a car or swung a hammer to get him thru until that dream job as a 80K/year software developer comes along. The poor kid.. at his age I was learning how be a tool and die maker, how to make composites, working on motorcycles, and wondering about port timing on exotic russian 1/2A's.

I know that today's youth are wired differently than we were but dang are they in for a rude awakening. The world still needs plumbers, electricians, accountants and all those icky jobs their parents had to do. If only they had been handed a Cox Baby-Bee when they were 12 years old rather than a game controller... They'd be making their own dream rather than living someone else's... I guess the world needs ditch diggers too.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 12/3/2012 2:55 PM   
forsakenrider


 

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Status: offline 		Hope is not all lost now guys! I'm only 26!! there's a few families out there who still teach their children about hard work.

Speaking of hard work, I've got everything I need for profile proto on its way to me. .010 stainless lines, a coffin tank, and some nice wheels. Yeee hah! the only hard work is going to be finding someone willing to fly with me!

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 12/3/2012 3:02 PM   
MJD



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Status: offline 		I grew up in a household where the basement was a workshop stuffed full of electronics gear and parts, drill press, shop lathe, grinders, carpentry equipment, etc., and model stuff. I wouldn't have had it any other way. My dad was the electronics expert, having served with Pathfinders at RAF bomber command developing radar systems, and spent the rest of life in the nav radar field. He coached me through building a 5 tube super-het receiver when I was 8-9 years old (lots of help here and there, but I built it). Looked like spaghetti on a plywood board but it worked. My oldest brother (born in London during the V-1 raids) pursued a degree in elec eng, and also had a passion for models and combined the two building his own radio gear in the '60's - my mentor in that regard. Ahh.. memories of single channel Tomboys on floats at the cottage. My dad's supreme pleasure after a day of work was to eat supper then retire to the workshop and putter, which works for me too. I considered post-secondary in electronics but it was not my main passion. But I retain the memories and experiences of a childhood that was always occupied with "building stuff". My two boys picked up some appreciation for such things but not with the intensity I had fantasized they would, but with what they picked up they're doing fine. I feel for the youth of today that don't understand how anything works and think a screwdriver is only for popping beer caps. Well, it is for popping beer caps, but it does other things too..

[nostalgia mode off, back to work..]

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 12/3/2012 4:21 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		Forsaken rider, You just need a big piece of pavement with no complaining neighbours and someone to let go of your plane and run a stopwatch. Then make one change at a time.  Hardly anyone flies speed any more.  At the US nats there wereonly a dozen or so diehards left.  All of them were over 50 except maybe one who flies with his dad. In highschool, I thought maybe I should take machine shop just for making spinners and stuff for my planes.  Ended up doing that for 35 years.  Still don't know what to do when I grow up.  Oddly enough, MJD, 25 years of that was making Radar, and radar accessories.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 12/3/2012 6:05 PM   
MJD



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Status: offline 		Interesting tie-in aspeed! After the war, my dad was with Decca in London before emigrating to Canada in '55 where he headed up Decca Radar Canada. Did you do any work for Decca?



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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 12/3/2012 6:17 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		I wasn't born yet in 1955.   Just a twinkle in the eye.  Leigh instruments and Raytheon.  Raytheon does work a bit with other companies, but Decca doesn't ring a bell, unless they were bought out by someone else.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 12/3/2012 9:28 PM   
MJD



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Status: offline 		Bought in '79 by Racal, then in '90 by Litton.

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RE: PROFI RAMBLER .049 - 12/3/2012 11:16 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		Doesn't sound familiar.  Thales rings a bell.  There are some dealings there.  I have been out of there for about three years now.  Unless Racal is RAytheon CAnada Ltd.

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