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Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/21/2012 5:27 AM   
Tee Bee


 

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From: Angleton, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I got a good deal on this bird from a local club member recently. He won the kit at a fly-in raffle and built it for electric power. I was at the field when another friend performed the maiden on it for the builder. It seemed to fly well enough but the owner was intimidated by it's small size and agile behavior. He's been moving back to the "slow flyer" types lately as his eyes have been giving him trouble. After watching me fly my 1/2A planes all morning, he decided that I would enjoy it more than he would. I got it for $80 with all new electronic equipment including a Spektrum rx. It's now programmed to my radio and ready for a re-maiden.

The Extra is pictured next to my .049 powered Scalpel that also uses the Ace tapered foam wing cores. The Extra tapers on the trailing edge whereas I cut the root ends of the cores to taper the leading edge of the Scalpel wing. The Scalpel is sleek and thin by comparison and weighs just under 12oz while the portly little Extra weighs in around 22-24oz depending on the LiPo battery used. Same wing area on both.

I will probably leave this one electrified due to the way it was built and set up internally. I have to admit that I've been thinking about building up another one with a tank and glow engine. Looks like a good candidate for an OS .10LA?

Have any of you guys built/flown one of these and how did you like them?

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 12:51 AM   
hllywdb



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Status: online 		Did Tee Bee just pee on Leroy Cox's grave and actually post a leekie in this forum? We all love Tee Bee, but if we let one of them in..........

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 1:00 AM   
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Status: offline 		Go for it Tee Bee, it's not what they are powered by it's that they are built and small errrrrrr, well it is what they are powered by, but a leekie here and there as long as it's balsa built (by the owner) is o.k. in my book. Just remember where your roots are!

John

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 1:33 AM   
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Status: offline 		Yep. Guilty as charged. I hesitated to post it here but was interested in hearing others' experiences with the plane with a glow engine up front(Particularly an OS .10). I flew it today and it's a fun little bird. Changes directions quickly, snap rolls fast, and spins readily. Doesn't fly on rails like a pattern ship and needs constant attention to keep it pointed where you want it to go. Lands a bit hot. Overall, just challenging enough to keep things interesting. Kind of reminds me of Ken Willard's Top Dawg. I like it.

Don't worry about me forgetting my roots, Rubbernecker. I've been doing a bit of 1/2A flying lately. That's how I ran across this airplane. I haven't built any planes since springtime but as soon as I get caught up with some "non-modeling" projects(Motorcycles), I'll have a new Cox powered toy on the board. Hint: It's name starts with an "S". Stay tuned.



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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 1:34 AM   
Tee Bee


 

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Status: offline 		Yep. Guilty as charged. I hesitated to post it here but was interested in hearing others' experiences with the plane with a glow engine up front(Particularly an OS .10). I flew it today and it's a fun little bird. Changes directions quickly, snap rolls fast, and spins readily. Doesn't fly on rails like a pattern ship and needs constant attention to keep it pointed where you want it to go. Lands a bit hot. Overall, just challenging enough to keep things interesting. Kind of reminds me of Ken Willard's Top Dawg. I like it.

Don't worry about me forgetting my roots, Rubbernecker. I've been doing a bit of 1/2A flying lately. That's how I ran across this airplane. I haven't built any planes since springtime but as soon as I get caught up with some "non-modeling" projects(Motorcycles), I'll have a new Cox powered toy on the board. Hint: It's name starts with an "S". Stay tuned.



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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 3:01 AM   
small_rcer


 

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Status: offline 		I would build it with 1/16th balsa sides with partial doublers from the trailing edge forward. A good 049 product engine will make it fly well, a TD 049 will make it hot. I feel the OS 10LA would make it too heavy and it would glide very fast or like a brick.

My Mach None knock off weighs 18 Oz with a TD, 2 oz tank and 3 servos It almost goes vertical with a TD. A simple series built light with 2 servos and 1 oz tank should get down to about 15 to 15 1/2 oz and be a fantastic performer.

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 3:27 PM   
hllywdb



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Status: online 		I have to go more with small_rcer on this one. I have found the OS 10 and the Enya 09 need a bit more wing to keep them from becoming a brick. I have also found that at 1/2a size, the electric to nitro is usually a trade off of thrust vs speed. The TD will have more speed, but a lot less thrust just because of the rpm where they make power. My choice would be a Cox 09 if you need that kind of thrust and power, or a Norvel .074 if you want throttle.

The simple has a lot smaller wing than the Herr, which will carry the 10 or 15 ok, so you need to think a better weight/power ratio motor like the Cox or Norvel. A diesel may give you the thrust you want, but probably not the speed and throttle response you would like.

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 4:54 PM   
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Status: offline 		Thanks for the feedback. I tend to agree. I have a Herr Little Extra that does very well with an OS .15LA. That plane is larger and has lots more wing area and carties the extra weight well. Guess I'll leave well enough alone. Ya see, I have an OS .10LA and really like it but just haven't found the perfect plane for it. It's currently mounted on a Great Planes Electrifly Fokker DVII that I modified extensively for a glow installation. Under full power, it will barely climb and is a real handful. It's a nice looker but it seems like something breaks on the plane everytime I fly it. It has become a hangar queen and I would like to mount the engine on something that will fly well with it.

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 5:02 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tee Bee

Yep. Guilty as charged. I hesitated to post it here ........



That's OK, Tee Bee - I know you're still in the fold. I just think of it as highly muffled rotary engine.

For power to weight ratios, ease of use and seamless throttle control, the electrics are getting hard to beat. I must confess that I've been converting my transmitters to a smooth throttle configuration and dropping the ratchet because I can tell a difference in speed moving from one detent position to another. Most of my wet engines were never quite that sensitive.

I agree that the .10 may have too much weight for good flying characteristics. A NORVEL .061 or .074 might be just the ticket, however. You have the TT .07 available; it's very well behaved with good throttling, but a little anemic and a bit porky, so I'm sticking with the NORVEL.

Compared with the Scalpel, the Extra really looks boxey and the Scalpel is really slick.

andrew

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 5:18 PM   
Tee Bee


 

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Status: offline 		"Scalpel is really slick"

....and goes nicely. On rails.

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 6:08 PM   
hllywdb



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Status: online 		Since if you are thinking of building anyway, why don't you scale the simple up to 1/2 way between the original and the Herr? I had an Ace Whizzard that was painfully anemic with a cox 049. So I built one with a built up wing and increased the span from 42 to 45, added a little more cord and ailerons. I flew that for years with an Enya 09 and had a blast.

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 6:21 PM   
Tee Bee


 

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Status: offline 		So many options....

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 6:48 PM   
mtntopgeo


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hllywdb

I have to go more with small_rcer on this one. I have found the OS 10 and the Enya 09 need a bit more wing to keep them from becoming a brick. I have also found that at 1/2a size, the electric to nitro is usually a trade off of thrust vs speed. The TD will have more speed, but a lot less thrust just because of the rpm where they make power. My choice would be a Cox 09 if you need that kind of thrust and power, or a Norvel .074 if you want throttle.

The simple has a lot smaller wing than the Herr, which will carry the 10 or 15 ok, so you need to think a better weight/power ratio motor like the Cox or Norvel. A diesel may give you the thrust you want, but probably not the speed and throttle response you would like.



(quote)tee bee
Thanks for the feedback. I tend to agree. I have a Herr Little Extra that does very well with an OS .15LA. That plane is larger and has lots more wing area and carties the extra weight well. Guess I'll leave well enough alone. Ya see, I have an OS .10LA and really like it but just haven't found the perfect plane for it. It's currently mounted on a Great Planes Electrifly Fokker DVII that I modified extensively for a glow installation. Under full power, it will barely climb and is a real handful. It's a nice looker but it seems like something breaks on the plane everytime I fly it. It has become a hangar queen and I would like to mount the engine on something that will fly well with it.

I've used the Enya .09 on a number of "conversions", & pretty much agree with you guys. At the small end of the scale, I tried a "Simple 400". It was a rocket, & would glide like a brick. The Lil' Extra (big end of the scale) would fly nice, but carried way too much weight. My preference is a plane with a wing area of near 300 sq. in. with a target weight of 21 OZs. The SURGE 400, TIGER 400, & MINI SUPER SPORTSTER are all good flyers, & meet my criteria. I managed to grab 4 Mini Super Sportsters (NIB) after they were closed out, but it's been impossible to find any Tiger 400 ARFs. Too bad, because the 09 just nearly "drops in" that plane. ....................... George K.

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 7:11 PM   
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Status: online 		I once bought one of the early Super Sporter EP ARF's used without the motor, it was the 20 sized one. Anyway I dropped a Norvel 40 in the nose (weighs about the same as a 25FX) It was quite impressive right up until the elevator hinges ripped out

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 8:30 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hllywdb

I once bought one of the early Super Sporter EP ARF's used without the motor, it was the 20 sized one. Anyway I dropped a Norvel 40 in the nose (weighs about the same as a 25FX) It was quite impressive right up until the elevator hinges ripped out



I think that "quite impressive" is probably a bit of an understatement.!!! . ................... George K.

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/22/2012 9:35 PM   
hllywdb



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Status: online 		I built one of the 20 size Super Sportsters when they first came out and powered it with an FP40. It was nice, but the Norvel one was quite a bit "nicer." After the 1st SS, I built a 29 size Rimfire, fully sheeted the wing and dropped an SF61 with a tuned pipe into it. That one lasted quite a while before it shredded in mid air. At full throttle, by the time you actually hear the flutter, you might as well just start looking for a garbage bag, as there is no time to react. With the light gear and building today along with the nice selection of available performance engines today, you don't have to do that stuff so much anymore.

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RE: Ace Simple Extra 230 - 11/23/2012 6:45 PM   
rrragmanliam


 

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Status: offline 		Just my opinion the .10 would be total overkill on this plane. I powered mine with a Norvel .061 and it had plenty of power. Keep in mind I fly in the Denver area a 5200-ft elevation so my engines are already a little down on power. If you wanted more engine I think the Norvel .074 would be a better choice. Same power as the OS.10 and A LOT lighter.

It’s a great little ½ A plane, a real nice flyer.

Darren


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