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Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/24/2012 4:26 AM   
pitstop000



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What’s the difference in these 2 Arrow’s ?????




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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/25/2012 1:22 AM   
hrdflite


 

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Status: offline 		slightly longer wing on arrow 800,also, full lenth removable topdeck cover.


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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/25/2012 2:19 AM   
doxilia



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Status: online 		Paul,

what you are calling the Arrow 800, Hobby Barn QLK is calling their Super Arrow.

David

PS Rob, any news on the PM I sent you a few days ago?

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/25/2012 2:55 AM   
pitstop000



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Status: offline 		Hey David,

I really don't understand your post??

Hobby Barn has 2 different Arrow’s.

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/25/2012 2:59 AM   
pitstop000



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Rob, so both planes have a full removable Top deck?

 

The 800 just has a bigger wing? Is the fuse also longer?

Thanks!!





quote:

ORIGINAL: hrdflite

slightly longer wing on arrow 800,also, full lenth removable topdeck cover.




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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/25/2012 3:25 AM   
doxilia



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quote:

ORIGINAL: pitstop000
Hey David,

I really don't understand your post??

Hobby Barn has 2 different Arrow’s.

Right,

hence your question I take it. I had the same question but spoke with Rob about it.

HB calls the Arrow 800 a Super Arrow. The regular Arrow is just that - specs are closer to the MK and British publication plans.

They both have removable decks but the regular Arrow's finishes just aft of the TE of the wing and it might be a partial deck (i.e., tunnel only maybe - hopefully Rob can clear that up) while the Super Arrow's is longer finishing along the tail boom allowing a full length pipe for long strokes if desired. It also leaves the fuse top flat so it is a fully removable deck in that sense.

The first picture below is a model finished by Kevin and is a Super Arrow (but maybe not from QLK - dunno), the second and third are regular Arrows. The built one may be an Arcomaster or could have been built in wood from British plans (the MK kit didn't go together like that). The fourth picture is one of QLK's current Super Arrows - compare with the fifth picture of their sketch scaled plan (hard to tell but I think that plan belongs to the preceding fuse). Sixth is an MK Arrow - just found one.

Hopefully Rob has the two fuses and can take a picture of them side by side with and without their decks on.

David

David

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/25/2012 3:35 AM   
doxilia



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Status: online 		Here are some CU shots of Kevin's Arrow showing the longer pipe tunnel - alas not being used as it ought to (model's not his)!

Yikes! I also see what looks like a cut-down MA prop on a Jett!

David

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/25/2012 3:49 AM   
pitstop000



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Hey David that’s Hawk’s Arrow! Built by Kevin. It doesn’t have a removable top deck.

 

My Hobby Barn Arrows I built back in the day didn’t have a removable top deck either; they came with a floor to be installed in the fuse.

 

Rob should shed light on all this.

I just need to find out what I want to get from him.

I have my checkbook ready! 2X



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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/25/2012 4:29 AM   
doxilia



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quote:

ORIGINAL: pitstop000

Hey David that’s Hawk’s Arrow! Built by Kevin. It doesn’t have a removable top deck.

Yes, I saw that too but it is planformed per the QLK Super Arrow fuse shown beside the Super Curare.

quote:


My Hobby Barn Arrows I built back in the day didn’t have a removable top deck either; they came with a floor to be installed in the fuse.

The Super Arrow is not like that apparently. You can see the fully removable top glass portion on top of a "Magic like" flat fuse top. The pipe floor is glass and part of the fuse.

quote:


Rob should shed light on all this.

I just need to find out what I want to get from him.

I have my checkbook ready! 2X

I've had mine ready too for some time but I haven't heard back from him. He was (has?) going to lay a Super Arrow up for me back in October. Hopefully he'll get back to my PM or the thread. Otherwise I'll have to call him again.

David


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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/25/2012 4:45 AM   
pitstop000



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Hey David, We just need to wait and see what is what!

I did have some e-mails going back and forth but then nothing.



quote:

ORIGINAL: doxilia

I've had mine ready too for some time but I haven't heard back from him. He was (has?) going to lay a Super Arrow up for me back in October. Hopefully he'll get back to my PM or the thread. Otherwise I'll have to call him again.

David




< Message edited by pitstop000 -- 11/25/2012 4:42 PM >

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/27/2012 3:42 AM   
hrdflite


 

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Status: offline 		hey guys,Rob here , i'm working with a lot of model right now,i will post some pics of the two styles of  Arrows showing the differences,the fully removable top deck came second,a logical development,and easier,Sorry about poor email etiqiete,realy easiest to call the shop 10 to 6 exept sunday, 520 747 3633,    Slightly different wing tip to i think,has a angle to it, the Arrow pictured in our ad ,,has short top deck, I will ask bill for exact detail of differences.  Some help i hope.


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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/27/2012 4:11 AM   
pitstop000



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Hey Rob, expect a phone call tomorrow from me!

I'm looking forward to speaking to you and getting a couple of kits  ASAP.

















 



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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/27/2012 6:39 PM   
hrdflite


 

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Status: offline 		some photos ,,im currently using the mold without scallops dated 2-3-83 also is a pic of some master tooling for super curare, we have the patterns the masters are made from too!


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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/27/2012 6:44 PM   
hrdflite


 

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Status: offline 		this probably adds to the confusion,the mold dated 83 also has SA on it always assumed it was super arrow the one marked SA is slightly shorter.


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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/27/2012 7:13 PM   
doxilia



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quote:

ORIGINAL: hrdflite

this probably adds to the confusion,the mold dated 83 also has SA on it always assumed it was super arrow the one marked SA is slightly shorter.


Rob,

thanks for the pics. You are right, it does add a bit to the confusion. Are these the only two Arrow molds from which you are producing? If so, wouldn't it make sense to refer to your 83 mold as the Super Arrow and the later mold as the Arrow 800 as written on it?

The Arrow 800 would be just what it says - a larger Arrow with 800 squares, longer fuse and pipe tunnel. On the other hand, the Super Arrow would have the same specs (length and span) as the original Arrow with a longer pipe tunnel.

Is that the case?

Are you able to layup fuses using the Arrow 800 mold?

David

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/27/2012 10:34 PM   
hrdflite


 

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Status: offline 		yes, both molds in pic are in very nice shape, and yes i got it backwards the good news is i will make you iether one you like.


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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/27/2012 10:41 PM   
pitstop000



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Hey David, just got off the phone with Rob, what a nice guy!

 

After we talked about the molds that he has on hand, here’s my take on piecing it all together history wise.

 

 

In 1979 or so Hobby Barn made Wolfgang Matt’s Arrow available that didn’t have a removable top deck, it had an optional small rear hatch for access which could be cut in by the builder or as an upgrade option by Hobby Barn.(See pdf) It had a fiberglass pipe floor that had to be installed into the fuse. It was a pain! (This firsthand knowledge since I built one back in the day and still have another on hand here in my workshop) Just like a Southern R/C Bootlegger kit or an Exception Kit.

 

The Arrow latter was then updated with a full removable top deck a la “SUPER ARROW” to make it easier to build, setup and maintain. This came around 1982/83 or so.

 

The Arrow 800 is the larger Arrow, around 1984/85, again with a full removable top deck. Longer fuse and larger wing with more area, also has the air scoop scallops at the rear. This what I assume is Wolfgang Matt’s “Arrow GRANAT” but named Arrow 800, probably due to the wing area. Like a Tipo 720 750 etc.

 

I can’t wait to see these first hand, I have one of each coming and a Super Curare.



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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/27/2012 11:06 PM   
PatternPilot



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Status: online 		quick sidebar... is there a source for the Exception ? It sounds like a glass version of a Deception and a pipe thru the canopy.

cpa#2

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/27/2012 11:28 PM   
flywilly


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Scott,
The Exception is available from Don at RCaiir. You hit the nail on the head - it is a glass Deception with a pipe floor in the fuse for rear exhaust engines. It eliminates a LOT of sanding compared to the wood version!

The Granat was an evolution of the Arrow. Wolfgang cleaned up the top of the fuse and allowed for a longer pipe. The wing span was increased as was the fuselage length. It was designed in 1984 when FAI pattern was 'converting' to Aresti style sequences. Wolfgang must have felt that the Granat would not meet the intent of the new rules (fly at 150m) as it was probably pretty fast like its predecessor; so he went back to the drawing board and developed the Joker - a much different airplane.

Arrow specs: Granat Specs:
Span 1600mm 1700mm
Length 1400mm 1580mm

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/27/2012 11:28 PM   
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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/28/2012 4:03 AM   
doxilia



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Status: online 		Thanks for the info fellas. I was going to say that the A800 had Granat overtones but I guess that's exactly what it is!

David

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/28/2012 2:07 PM   
Pattern One


 

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Status: offline 		Guys,

Here is a picture of the ARROW I purchased from Rob. The workmanship is first class.

Leo

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/29/2012 10:45 AM   
gkaraolides


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pitstop000
The Arrow 800 is the larger Arrow, around 1984/85, again with a full removable top deck. Longer fuse and larger wing with more area, also has the air scoop scallops at the rear. This what I assume is Wolfgang Matt’s “Arrow GRANAT” but named Arrow 800, probably due to the wing area.


quote:

ORIGINAL: flywilly
The Granat was an evolution of the Arrow. Wolfgang cleaned up the top of the fuse and allowed for a longer pipe. The wing span was increased as was the fuselage length. It was designed in 1984


quote:

ORIGINAL: doxilia
Thanks for the info fellas. I was going to say that the A800 had Granat overtones but I guess that's exactly what it is!


I am very interested in the Granat. Does the Hobby Barn Arrow 800 fuselage have the flush fitting top deck like the Granat, without the step behind the pipe on the original Arrow top deck?

With best regards,

George

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/30/2012 5:13 AM   
pitstop000



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Γεια σου Γιώργο, νομίζω ότι θα έχουμε τις πρώτες 800 Arrow μετά από όλο αυτό το διάστημα

Θα σας ενημερώσω όταν παίρνω τα αεροπλάνα.


quote:

ORIGINAL: gkaraolides

I am very interested in the Granat. Does the Hobby Barn Arrow 800 fuselage have the flush fitting top deck like the Granat, without the step behind the pipe on the original Arrow top deck?

With best regards,

George



< Message edited by pitstop000 -- 11/30/2012 11:46 AM >

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RE: Hobby Barn Super Arrow/ Arrow 800 - 11/30/2012 8:42 AM   
gkaraolides


 

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From: Engomi Nicosia, CYPRUS
Status: offline 		Greetings all,

English translation follows. Please indulge us (currently bankrupt) descendants of Plato and Aristotle and let us show off our Greek for a bit on an international forum... consider it a small consolation for the fact that the two Greek-speaking countries in the EU are now both officially bankrupt (just one of our banks here in Cyprus has been officially revealed to need a bailout half the size of the GDP, sheesh)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pitstop000
Γεια σου Γιώργο νομίζω ότι θα έχουμε τις πρώτες 800 Arrow μετά από όλο αυτό το διάστημα Θα σας ενημερώσω όταν παίρνω τα αεροπλάνα.


(Paul is letting me know he will be getting some Arrow 800's soon and will let me know when he does)

Ευχαριστώ Παύλο, χαίρομαι που θα έχεις Arrow 800 σύντομα! Θα ήταν καλά να βλέπαμε φωτογραφίες της ατράκτου. Έχω δύο κινητήρες Webra με την εξάτμιση στο πίσω μέρος που είναι ότι πρέπει!

Thanks Paul, I'm glad you are getting some Arrow 800's soon! It would be nice to see some pictures of the fuselage. I have two rear exhaust Webra engines that are just the right thing!

G.

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