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Engine size confusion - 11/24/2012 5:43 PM   
oldbassard


 

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From: Kiefer, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Gang

As I previously stated in an earlier post I am just getting ready to try Gasoline engines, I read on some engine sites that a  20 Gasoline engine is suitable for 60 glow size plane then another company says the 20 size gasoline is for 120 glow sized planes.  I am considering a Super Sportster 60. I am wonderisng will a DLE 20 be too much for this plane, or do I need to drop the CC to a RCGF 15 15, also Zenoah makes a 20 and 26, I am considering, Would the 26 be too much? I want to put the largest engine on it that is feasable without going overboard.  Any reponceses will be greatly appreciated, I have little advise available to me at the time that lives near me. 

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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/24/2012 7:10 PM   
speedracerntrixie


 

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Status: offline 		I personally feel that a DLE 20 would be too much weight on the nose of a SS .60. I would look at some of the 15cc offerings. As far as comparisons go I would look to prop sizes and RPM specs. For example an average .60 will spin a 12X6 around 13,000-14,000. The NGH17 specs states a 15X8 at about 8,500 RPM. Bigger prop but at a lower RPM. These figures tell me they are close to the same power output. The bigger issue will be the one of weight. Going the gasser route will add about a pound and a half to the airplane. The airplane should be able to handle that weight OK but it is all forward of the CG.


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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/24/2012 11:54 PM   
chris923


 

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Status: offline 		I have put several DLE 20's on 60 size planes. They work great. If you think they are over-powered.... throttle back!

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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/25/2012 12:07 AM   
karolh


 

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Status: offline 		The RCGF beam mount 15cc gasser is quite light and powerful and and would be a very good choice of power for your .60 size Sportster, plus the 15" dia prop required should not be too much of a problem with ground clearance, or you could use a 14" dia 3 blade prop.

Karol

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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/25/2012 12:36 AM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		I have a RCGF 20cc beam mount on a GP Stearman with a 15x8 prop. I moved all the electronic's rearward to accomodate the weight and did not have to add any for balance. I would take the 20 over the 15 any day. Not enough difference between them to make up for the power of the 20 over the 15. IMHO


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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/25/2012 2:36 AM   
ahicks


 

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Status: offline 		.60 size planes are not all created equally. You can't say all the .60 size planes are going to be suitable for a 20....

I agree the SS60 may not be a very good plan for a 20cc gasser. Why? Consider the wing loading? Look at the square inches of wing area on the SS60 - 675 sq in. Now look at the .60 size Revolver for comparison. That's a known good 20cc gas platform. Closer to 850 sq in? That plane is known to be a blast for an experienced flyer (but probably not the best choice for a second plane). The point is the wing area is probably the biggest factor/difference regarding whether or not the plane you're talking about is going to be a good home for a 20cc engine.

The other big consideration is weight - but at least some of that will have to do with performance expectations? Something like a .60 size Cub with it's huge wing area (1000sq in +?) can go up to probably 12lb or so (yes, lighter is better!), the Revolver will be in the 9.5-10lb and offer great sport plane performance, and the 3D profile will be under 8lbs, giving it the ability to be as crazy as your imagination!

The RCFG 15 is smaller, but only 3oz lighter than a DLE 20, with a huge difference in the amount of thrust developed by each.

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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/25/2012 5:54 AM   
Scota4570


 

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Status: offline 		I have a 4-star 60 with a 23cc Stihl conversion. I am very happy with how it flies. I did cut the nose back about an inch to make it balance better. It was faster and more nimble with a 90 glow. I don't like glow engines so I prefer it with the gasser. It still has unlimited vertical and can do any aerobatic maneuver. It floats in on landings with not nasty surprises an over weight plane can do. The 4-star has a lot of wing area. I do nottice torque effects, the 16" prop has more twisting effect and a 14 or 15" but is is no big deal.

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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/25/2012 3:25 PM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		A number of people have put in DLE 20cc or Mintor 22cc engines in their Escapade .61 planes. This plane has only 813 square inches of wing area. So using a engine like that should not be a big issue. I myself am running a SV 17cc engine in my Escapade 61 plane. The SV 17cc engine weighs about 1014 grams without the ignition module. So it is heavier than the other two engines, the DLE 20 and Mintor 22. Anyway the SV 17cc engine flies the Escapade around fairly well. So if someone wants to use it in a .60 size airplane then it shouldn't be a big issue. But if the plane has a small narrow nose on it, you likely couldn't do it as the engine won't fit.

I normally suggest putting the plane together but don't install the throttle pushrod or cable, place the batteries where you want them to go, etc. Then temporarily place the engine on the front of the plane and check how the CG is working out for balancing the plane. That gives you a good idea on if you need to do something radical like having to move the firewall or something such as adding weight to the front of back of the plane. Without everything being done you can move the battery packs around, etc to see about getting it to balance.






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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/25/2012 4:58 PM   
speedracerntrixie


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chris923

I have put several DLE 20's on 60 size planes. They work great. If you think they are over-powered.... throttle back!

Chris923




IMO there is no such thing as too much power. I was just worried about the additional weight. Not sure if this would be a conversion to gas or a new build. If it's a new build then it can be planned out a little better and if need be servos can go in the tail. The SS is also a little overbuilt so some weight can be removed during construction to keep the overall wing loading down.



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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/26/2012 4:28 AM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		You need to look at the dimensions of the nose on your SS. See if it will accomodate the DLE 20 OK. It should be a perfect powerplant in all honesty. I put a DLE 20 in a 65" span Pica FW190 and it fit great, and is perfect power wise.

I also recommend the DLE 20 over all of the other choices.

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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/26/2012 6:06 PM   
opjose



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Status: offline 		You also need to look at the engine specs for the ARF closely.

Some arf's that say .60 really mean .60 size four stroke, in which case the 15 gasser WILL overpower the plane greatly.

Some mean .60 size two strokers, where the 20 gasser will probably be a better fit.


BTW: We put 20 DLE's into 60 sized Telemasters and the planes were grossly overpowered. The engine is simply too powerful for the plane. A 15 is a better fit for these planes.

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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/27/2012 2:40 AM   
vertical grimmace



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Status: offline 		Think of what sized prop you want as well. The DLE 20 wants either a 16-8 or 17-6. There is no deviating from this really. Ground clearance could be an issue.

I hope the 15cc sized engines are working now. I had one of the first NGH engines and had nothing but trouble.

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RE: Engine size confusion - 11/27/2012 1:50 PM   
K-Bob


 

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Status: offline 		I built, and still own, a SS60 with an OS61FX glow engine. It is a great performer and the engine is a perfect match. I could not imagine adding the extra weight of a DLE 20 to the nose.


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