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What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 1:13 AM   
Laurence-RCU


 

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Status: offline 		I have the Seagul Spacewalker 120. I plan to power it with an OS 120 4 stroke. I know this is at the low end of the recommended power plant but I am an old duffer and am satisfied just to tool around at a more leisurely pace.
What I wonder is what size servos would be appropriate. A standard servo would be OK for the throttle but what about the rest?
The manual does not specify.

Laurence

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 2:00 AM   
gaRCfield



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Status: offline 		I think the new 'standard' servo is the JR DS821. You can get them for under $30/ea - they are digital sport servos and come with a few of the JR/Spektrum radio packages. They have 72 oz-in torque at 4.8v. They are awesome servos - smooth, quiet, and precise. They are good in any plane up through about a 1.20 size. You can use them on every surface for your application. If you want a different servo, look for something equal or better than 72oz/.15sec.

You can use a mini servo for the throttle, standard size would heavier than needed.

1.20 is an awesome size plane, I have had a few now. Great combination of low cost / transportability / stable flight / low fuel burn. The DS821 will work in just about any 1.20 plane, barring extreme 3D performers for which 100oz-in and metal gears is preferred.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/ds821-high-torque-servo-JRPS821#t2

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 5:16 AM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		The plane was designed around the standard size analog servos we had back in the day but as Joe pointed out, we have much better servos on the market now days for not too much money if you want to go better. A lot of good choices out there now. Take a look at the selection at Servo City too. A lot of nice servos come up on sale.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 8:48 AM   
Hossfly



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Laurence-RCU

I have the Seagul Spacewalker 120. I plan to power it with an OS 120 4 stroke. I know this is at the low end of the recommended power plant but I am an old duffer and am satisfied just to tool around at a more leisurely pace.
What I wonder is what size servos would be appropriate. A standard servo would be OK for the throttle but what about the rest?
The manual does not specify.

Laurence


I am NOT any kind authority on servos, but I well know that a sport flying airplane, even to 100" w/s, can do well on using one analog servo of 55 oz. or better torque on each aileron.
When back in the early seventies, we had one servo driving the ailerons on 60-75 size machines through aerobatics, and formula 1 Pylon racers, I firmly believe that all this Hokus Pokus about BIG digital servos needed in the sport machines is simply to sell stuff. I have a 100" w/s bipe with two 48 oz. servos, one on each aileron. Does well. My Eindecker 101" w/s does well with analog servos, all less than 60 Oz. torque.

I have 14 digital servos in a drawer. All still brand new. I have some 15 airplanes with servos in place. All analog with 75 oz. torque or less. Digital servos idle at about the same voltage draw that an equal size analog works at. MORE BATTERY!

Some years ago, there existed a well liked magazine. The powerful servos were on their way in and the battle cry was that if you don't have them you will never get off the ground. The Scale writer that was a great Scale Flier with GIANT Scale wrote in his article that all was strictly BS marketing simply to SELL expensive servos.
Well he got fired for that article. While his boss preached that his magazine was the modeler's mag. he was not definite with what he preached. In his next to last issue, there was an article praising a certain twin airplane ARF. Just Fantastic. Not in the high points or in any picture, but tucked way back near the end of the article, they admitted that on the 3rd flight, both firewalls along with the motors bailed out of the airplane. YEP. really great!

Just like all this 2.4 stuff. 72MHZ does very well and is easier because so few are using it. I have two JR (Spectrum) 2.4 systems, active, and two Airtronics 2.4 still in the box. It's all simply to sell stuff. I have a number of JR, Hitec, Futaba, and Airtronics 72 Mhz. systems in use. I plan to keep on using the 72MHZ.

Therefore I suggest that you do as you please with your machine. Just remember the fancy servos draw a lot of electrics. Be sure you have the batteries to do so.
If you are going the 3D/IMAC route, then you will need the big servos and batteries.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 9:09 AM   
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Status: offline 		I flew my Goldberg Ultimate Biplane with a OS 1.20 with pump.
I used 4 standard servos to fly it, along with a 4 cell AA nicad pack.
This plane could do knife edge loops with 4 servos that were worth about $36 total.


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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 11:09 AM   
mike109



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I also have the Space Walker you have and I too am an old bloke that just pokes around the sky. I have a Laser 150 four stroke in it which is a little less powerful than my Saito 150 but is a really nice engine to use.

My model uses three different types of servos. As it has two aileron servos and two elevator servos, I used the Hitec HS-635 (4 of them) for those. The rudder has one servo and it is a slightly more powerful HS 645. The throttle is an HS-422.

Enjoy your Space Walker. They fly really well but it is a really good example of a tail dragger that likes to go strongly LEFT on take off if you don't keep the rudder under control.

Cheers

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 11:23 AM   
sebo


 

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Status: offline 		Go with the JR DS821......I have a couple dozen or so of them....great servo....never had one cause me any problems.........Ron

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 11:45 AM   
CGRetired



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Status: offline 		Yeah, I'll go with that too. I have four aircraft in that size and JR/Spektrum 821 servos work just great. I also have been using Airtronics 94122Z servo is also a good one. When you use a pair of servos on the ailerons (one on each side) that Airtronics 50 inch ounce @ 4.8 volts works fine. I would stick with the JR on the rudder and elevator if you are using one servo on each control surface.

There is no need to spend big bucks on high-torque servos. As previously stated, you just don't need that kind of torque. Especially if you are going to use 6 volt battery packs.

CGr.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 6:14 PM   
gaRCfield



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Status: offline 		One of the reasons for suggesting the DS821 is for longevity. It is a good servo with good power that can be used in a myriad of 1.20 size airplanes. As Gene pointed out, the airplane can fly on a standard analog servo. I had some standard analog servos. All of my flying planes right now are 1.20 size, and a standard analog servo wouldn't work for every control surface. However, a DS821 would sufficiently fill the needs of anything I have today.

You can find the DS821 new in the classified forum for around $15. I think a standard analog servo sells for around $11-13 at the hobby shops, so it's not a major investment to upgrade to something with a much broader usage base.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 6:54 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		For younger pilots just starting out in the hobby I do recommend buying the best servos they can afford but only because they can be transfered into more advanced planes as they progress in the hobby. I used the standard 48 in. oz. servos in some very big planes in the past. I do like digital servos myself but it all depends on what plane they are going in. I don't have enough money to be using them in every type of plane I build. Some of the new digitals are down in price and up in quality so I no longer buy standard analogs, no need to, I still have a box full of servos to choose from and most of them are good analogs. I have some pretty old high torque JR analogs that have been in constant use in a stunt plane for over a decade without a hitch. At the time I could have gotten them in digital for about 10 bucks more but I have always had to watch my hobby spending. I think I bought 4 at the time and 40 beans was still a lot to me back then. Still is today. It's nice to have the choices we have these days.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/26/2012 11:10 PM   
CGRetired



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quote:

ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

One of the reasons for suggesting the DS821 is for longevity. It is a good servo with good power that can be used in a myriad of 1.20 size airplanes. As Gene pointed out, the airplane can fly on a standard analog servo. I had some standard analog servos. All of my flying planes right now are 1.20 size, and a standard analog servo wouldn't work for every control surface. However, a DS821 would sufficiently fill the needs of anything I have today.

You can find the DS821 new in the classified forum for around $15. I think a standard analog servo sells for around $11-13 at the hobby shops, so it's not a major investment to upgrade to something with a much broader usage base.



When Spektrum started with the DX7, it came with four of the DS821 servos. They were labeled Spektrum but are obviously JR servos. At the time, they were about $30 each but have obviously come down since then and are a real bargain for what you get. I have a boatload of Airtronics servos in my box because I have been using the Spektrum/JR servos since I got the ones with the DX7. Joe, I didn't realize that they were such a bargain. Since we don't have a hobby shop within a reasonable drive, most of us around here rely on mail order. Horizon still sells them for $30.00.

Good post showing a source.

CGr.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/27/2012 9:17 AM   
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Status: offline 		I am flying the Seagull 120 SpaceWalker with a DLE20 in it..I was told Strait from Hi Tec that Karbonite servos were not recomended in gassers and I have also been told you should not mix digital and analog .. I know digitals use more juice than analog , and our radios do everything that a digital can do anyway so I dont really need the digital...Because I am running a gasser I am using Metal gear HS-645 otherwize it would be HS- 635 with Karbonite gears....I do really like the DS821's and would use them more often were it not for my understanding that digitals use more juice...How much more I am not sure....I do use them in smaller planes like the Saratoga...

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/27/2012 2:57 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		I was told about the Karbonite gears much later after I bought out Servo City's stock of 6985s when they had a close out. Trouble was I bought them just for giant scale planes using gas engines. It was years later I saw that about them here on RCU so I phoned HT and sure enough, not to be used on gassers or planes with big control surfaces. I didn't have the money to be able not to use them though. To date I have stripped out two aileron servo gear trains. It happened on an RF glitch though, not normal use. They are very brittle and the vibration from a gasser with the servos trying to hold the controls at center can and will strip the gears. I have never bought another servo with the Karbonite gears. Just nylon gears are stronger. I still see no reason for them to even be using that gear train these days, it limits the use of the servos.
As to the no mixing of analog and digital I see no problem with it? This is the first I have ever seen that stated. Could you go a bit deeper with what you were told. Been doing it ever sense digitals hit the market. I can't recall the last time I built a plane without mixing the two types.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/27/2012 3:55 PM   
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Status: offline 		Shoot, the S3004 or S3010 Futaba servos are just as good for this.  Flew my 4*120 on the 3010 servos.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/27/2012 4:29 PM   
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Status: offline 		Read the warnings associated with the 821's on models that size.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/28/2012 2:13 PM   
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Status: offline 		My local hobby shop dealer told me about not mixing Digital and Analog servos..He is a pretty well informed fellow however I have mixed them with no ill results ..I Have also been using Karbonite servos in my big 1/3 Cubs with G62's in them for some time and have not had a failure however I am thinking it might be time to change them out ...I have been using Metal gear in any new ones with gas I build but the old ones still have the Karb gears in them . I am glad you told me about your Karbonite failures Gene ..I know you can buy gear sets to replace the karb with metal for some servos , I am not sure about if you can get plastic replacment or not but you could check to see if your servos have replacement gear sets that are not karbonite...

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/28/2012 4:06 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		I checked and there is no replacement for them on the 6985. I replaced the gears on the two I broke though. I have been running them in my big gassers anyway, I was using them before I knew about the problem and still get away with it. When these gear trains first came out they advertised them as the best thing sense sliced bread and I fell for the hype.
When I broke them, the aileron servos on both sides, it was a strong RF glitch but it was only hammering the ailerons, the rudder and elevator weren't getting hit that hard so they were fine. In that plane the vibration was heavy in the tail feathers at idle but I still never had a gear problem with them after that one time.
I picked up the servos on sale when HT came out with the same servo with metal gears as the replacement for them. I haven't had a problem but by being aware of the gear train I watch what I put them in and keep an eye out for heavy vibration.
I thought Hitec may have said not to mix analog and digital. Being just a hobby shop guy I wouldn't read too much into it, just another opinion unless he can come up with an answer as to why. It's been common practice sense digitals hit the market to mix them. I was just wondering what Hitec told you about it. I thought maybe they did a study on it or something. If there was some kind of problem with it I think I would have known about it a long time ago. I have been mixing sense digitals came out.
I just wouldn't waste my money on the Karbonite geared servos ever again, no reason to be limited on the use of a servo.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/28/2012 7:37 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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quote:

My local hobby shop dealer told me about not mixing Digital and Analog servos..He is a pretty well informed fellow


If he watches the news and keeps up on current events he's well informed.

He knows little about radios unforunately though if he thinks there's a problem mixing digital and analog servos.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/28/2012 9:36 PM   
opjose



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

quote:

My local hobby shop dealer told me about not mixing Digital and Analog servos..He is a pretty well informed fellow


He knows little about radios unforunately though if he thinks there's a problem mixing digital and analog servos.


Yup no problems... I've done this on various planes.




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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/29/2012 1:08 PM   
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Status: offline 		All my builds in the last several years have been 20cc -35cc size. On the 20cc size, I've used the DS-821 servos and on the 26-35cc the HS 645mg. The servos are about the same price at around $30. I've an Ultra Stick Lite with a 20cc that likely has 600 flights on it using the DS-821 servos. I've had one servo failure and it was a DS-821 that suffered infant mortality on its first flight and fortunately was on the rudder. The problem was intermittent so might have been a poor solder joint.

I also have the Seagull Spacewalker II and would use DS-821 servos if I had them available. I used HS 645mg on mine because I had to acquire servos for it and given the almost equal price, the Hitec servos have metal gears and though not much of an issue a pull/pull horn. While I say not much of an issue, it saves having to buy a pull/pull horn or fabricating one to use the DS-821 on rudder pull/pull.



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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/29/2012 2:52 PM   
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Status: offline 		The problem with mixing digital and analog servos is the frame rate of the radio system. Digital servos don't care, they work fine at 11 mS or 22 mS, while analog servos only work at the longer frame rate (22 mS). This is only a concern with the high resolution radio designs at the upper end, where you are allowed to select the frame rate in the menu. The 11 and 22 mS values are Spektrum numbers, other brands will have numbers in that range.

In the early days of RC when all the servos were "analog", the frame rate was fixed at some value on some systems, which made the servo much easier to design, while on others, the frame rate was variable which made the receiver performance better at the expense of the servo torque.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/29/2012 7:51 PM   
swify


 

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Status: offline 		The manual for my Sig 4 star 120 says to use servos of at least 55 oz in torque, I'm using Futaba S3010 servos they put out 70 oz in of torque I believe.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/29/2012 10:05 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		Highplains, don't the new high end radios allow you to select the resolution on each individual servo? I have got to play with the new 18s and they do more then my computer and I know you can balance the current draw on each servo to get them all equal. After that I was completely lost. I was really lost long before I got to that feature, who am I kidding. They do everything but fly the plane for you. I'm sure, OK, not so sure my old 9-C doesn't allow that? Another thing I have never bothered to look into on my radio. Decades of use and it still amazes me what it can do and I don't understand.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/29/2012 11:07 PM   
HighPlains


 

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Status: offline 		I haven't looked at all the latest systems, so is it possible they could allow each channel to control the frame rate. My DC-8 only does all the channels at the same rate. If the higher end systems don't indivigually set the frame rate for each channel, you may have an idea they will put into the next generation of whiz-bang systems. None of this was possible before the wide bandwidth of spread spectrum on the 2.4g band. Now an amazing amount of information can pass through the RF link.

What I would like is a radio you can talk to to change trim and rate settings. Something that would get rid of 90% of the switches on the box.

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RE: What size servos for a 120 size plane - 11/30/2012 11:46 AM   
bikerbc


 

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Status: offline 		So what is the verdict is it a good Idea to mix the two ? Without knowing how to do any special setting up of the radio ..I have a DX8 and an Aroura 9 I am in a bit of a fog as I have just had a massive Stroke and I dont understand complicated things...Did this mean if you wanted to use the two types of servo you needed to set up the radio somehow?

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