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Kit bashing - 11/26/2012 8:16 PM   
BigBird1



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From: Knoxville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Later this winter I'm going to build a Big Chaos with a 30cc gas motor, using a foam wing.
I really want to raise the wing 1/2" and have plug in wings with a wing tube in them through the fuse.
Any rule of thumb as to the size, type and length of wing tube to use?

Thanks,
BB1

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/26/2012 8:31 PM   
sensei



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Status: offline 		What is the thickest point on your root rib, tip rib and what is the length of one wing panel? with that info we can head down a productive path.

Bob

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 1:12 AM   
eddieC



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Status: offline 		Depends on whether there's dihedral and, if so, how much. 

Raising the wing that much will significantly change the way it handles, but bashing is fun too. 
I'd get it into the wing as far as possible, at least 1/3 span of each wing panel. If you go with an aluminum tube, make it thick-wall. Seen a lot of them bend.    CF tubes are good too. 
1.25" diameter would be a good starting point. 


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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 2:13 AM   
BigBird1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: eddieC

Depends on whether there's dihedral and, if so, how much. 

Raising the wing that much will significantly change the way it handles, but bashing is fun too. 
I'd get it into the wing as far as possible, at least 1/3 span of each wing panel. If you go with an aluminum tube, make it thick-wall. Seen a lot of them bend.    CF tubes are good too. 
1.25'' diameter would be a good starting point. 



It's typical Bridy wing, the wings are tapered, but set flat on top with the taper all on the bottom..
I'll do some measuring later and give the possible weight and get some more advice.
Well, I need to raise the wing enough to put the tube in, fill in the sides of the fuse where it's been routed out and reinforce for the wing tube and fill in the bottom of the fuse with access from the top to get at things inside.

BB1

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 2:26 PM   
BigBird1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: sensei

What is the thickest point on your root rib, tip rib and what is the length of one wing panel? with that info we can head down a productive path.

Bob



The wing panel is 38" the root is 2 1/2" thick
I drew it out this morning on paper. With a 1 1/2" tube at the root their is 1/2" at the top and the bottom of the wing
At 13" (1/3 of the wing length) the panel is 2" thick/
At 13" their is 1/2" thickness between the top of the wing and about 1/8" at the bottom of the panel because of the taper.
Their will be plywood bedded in the wing for the socket to run through for added strength, at the end of the socket and 6" from the root with plywood at the root.
I'm going to guess that the all up weight will be 9lbs or more.

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 2:42 PM   
sensei



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigBird1


quote:

ORIGINAL: sensei

What is the thickest point on your root rib, tip rib and what is the length of one wing panel? with that info we can head down a productive path.

Bob



The wing panel is 38'' the root is 2 1/2'' thick
I drew it out this morning on paper. With a 1 1/2'' tube at the root their is 1/2'' at the top and the bottom of the wing
At 13'' (1/3 of the wing length) the panel is 2'' thick/
At 13'' their is 1/2'' thickness between the top of the wing and about 1/8'' at the bottom of the panel because of the taper.
Their will be plywood bedded in the wing for the socket to run through for added strength, at the end of the socket and 6'' from the root with plywood at the root.
I'm going to guess that the all up weight will be 9lbs or more.

BB1


I think you have come up with your own plan and direction you are wanting to go, and in my opinion, the numbers and your plan look great. I always use carbon tubes in all my stuff but that is just a personal preference.

Bob


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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 3:07 PM   
BigBird1



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Status: offline 		Any opinion on raising the wing 1/2" up on the fuse??

BB1


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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 3:29 PM   
sensei



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigBird1

Any opinion on raising the wing 1/2'' up on the fuse??

BB1



I don't see that your going to have an issue with that, in fact I think it may fly more neutral.

Bob

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 3:33 PM   
BigBird1



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Status: offline 		Thanks for you're help..

BB1

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 3:38 PM   
sensei



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Status: offline 		You are certainly welcome and the very best on your build.

Bob

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 8:18 PM   
bigal126


 

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Status: offline 		I have some experience here.
Rule of thumb for neutral flight characteristics: Wing below the thrust line should have some dihedral. Wing on the thrust line should have no dihedral (flat wing). Wing above the thrust line should have anhedral.

When I built a 30cc goldberg sukhoi, I used a 3/4 diameter carbon tube. I purchased a 36" long tube and a phenolic tube from TNT landing gear. I went through 4 ribs including the root rib. If I remember correctly, I cut a total of about 4 inches off the 36". It is holding strong with no issues. You can see some pictures here. Hope it helps.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10620159/anchors_10635342/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#10635342

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 8:31 PM   
sensei



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Status: offline 		I am thinking his wing will still be below the thrust line.

Bob

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 8:59 PM   
BigBird1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigal126

I have some experience here.
Rule of thumb for neutral flight characteristics: Wing below the thrust line should have some dihedral. Wing on the thrust line should have no dihedral (flat wing). Wing above the thrust line should have anhedral.

When I built a 30cc goldberg sukhoi, I used a 3/4 diameter carbon tube. I purchased a 36'' long tube and a phenolic tube from TNT landing gear. I went through 4 ribs including the root rib. If I remember correctly, I cut a total of about 4 inches off the 36''. It is holding strong with no issues. You can see some pictures here. Hope it helps.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10620159/anchors_10635342/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#10635342


The wing will still be below the thrust line.
I just want to raise it enough to fill in the saddle and the bottom where the wing went under the fuse..

BB1

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 10:28 PM   
Leroy Gardner


 

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Status: offline 		I'm doing almost the same thing right now to a Tiger 60. I'm useing a 3/4" alumunum wing tube designed for a AT-6 with a 91" wing, it's 28" long. My wing is 74" and I will have 12" in each wing supported with lite burch ply 1/8" thick fore and aft of tube reciever. If your intrested I can tell you how to make a fiberglas tube right on the aluminum tube, it's trickey but can be done, I just did it.

I'm building my plane at Goldberg Tiger Club in this section, check the last page, just posted on the 26th.

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/27/2012 11:03 PM   
BigBird1



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Status: offline 		My Big Bingo has almost the same layout..
The wing tube starts at the center of the root rib and goes down towards the bottom of the ribs the further it goes out to give it detherial (mispelled) also reinforced with ply doublers. I also use thin aluminum strips along with the wing bolts to help take up some of the stress at the center of the wing.
I don't have that kind of luck on building sockets...no matter how much mold reliece or waxing I do..I'll probably bite the bullet and order a tube.

BB1

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/28/2012 12:37 AM   
BUCKETOBOLTS



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Status: offline 		Bigbird1, I'm interested in building a Big Chaos also. You wouldn't happen to have any pics of the kit before you start building?

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/28/2012 1:24 AM   
bigal126


 

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Status: offline 		I gave the sukhoi a bit of dihedral also. If you look closely at the picture you will see that the tube stays equadistant (is that a real word?) to the top spar, but the space between the bottom of the tube and the bottom spar increases as you move toward the root of the wing. This made the top of the wing flat and a small amount of dihedral on the bottom of the wing. The result is a plane that has very little roll coupling. The wing is placed just slightly below the thrust line.

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/28/2012 1:52 AM   
sensei



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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigal126

I gave the sukhoi a bit of dihedral also. If you look closely at the picture you will see that the tube stays equadistant (is that a real word?) to the top spar, but the space between the bottom of the tube and the bottom spar increases as you move toward the root of the wing. This made the top of the wing flat and a small amount of dihedral on the bottom of the wing. The result is a plane that has very little roll coupling. The wing is placed just slightly below the thrust line.


That is what old Buba did in his Lanier kits years ago.

Bob

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/28/2012 4:07 AM   
cordell staker



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Status: offline 		Any guesses on what bashed airplane this is?
Cordell Staker

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/28/2012 6:25 AM   
BigBird1



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BUCKETOBOLTS

Bigbird1, I'm interested in building a Big Chaos also. You wouldn't happen to have any pics of the kit before you start building?



What kind of pics ya need...
Really it's a simple kit...almost build in you're lap.

BB1

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/30/2012 8:25 PM   
Leroy Gardner


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sensei


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigBird1

Any opinion on raising the wing 1/2'' up on the fuse??

BB1



I don't see that your going to have an issue with that, in fact I think it may fly more neutral.

Bob


Bob, what is flying netural ? I raised the wing 3/4" and made them plug in on the Tiger 60 I'm presently building on the Goldberg Tiger Club Thread. I also lowered the dihedral to 1 degree per side or 1/2 " up at wing tips. What are your thoughts on that, you seem to have knowledge on these things. Ya can't learn if you don't ask. Thanks

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RE: Kit bashing - 11/30/2012 8:43 PM   
BUCKETOBOLTS



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Status: offline 		Nothing in particular, I guess it is very similar to the .60 size? I've built one of those and as you said, it almost built itself. Do you think the airframe can handle fully sheeting the wing and fiber glassing the whole plane?

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RE: Kit bashing - 12/1/2012 5:23 PM   
gene6029


 

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Status: offline 		I'm confused a bit as to why you need to raise the wing at all to put in a wing tube. I'm currently flying a Kaos & dont see why a wing tube couldnt be installed in it with out raiseing the wing. What are your concerns?....Gene

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RE: Kit bashing - 12/1/2012 5:34 PM   
BigBird1



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ORIGINAL: gene6029

I'm confused a bit as to why you need to raise the wing at all to put in a wing tube. I'm currently flying a Kaos & dont see why a wing tube couldnt be installed in it with out raiseing the wing. What are your concerns?....Gene


None...I just want to see If I can do it and it fly...
I'm not fond of bolting on the foam wings.
Takes up less space in my Smart Car....(just kidding)

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RE: Kit bashing - 12/1/2012 10:18 PM   
gene6029


 

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Status: offline 		Ok, just was wondering. ........Gene

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