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RTR Boats - 11/26/2012 10:54 PM   
StevL


 

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From: Irmo, SC, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Boaters,

I played with nitro boats years ago (early 80s) with Neil Sightler and his mono hull boats.

Well now I want something to play with, prefer electric. I have looked at the Proboats and the Traxxas Spartan, these are nice but not unbelievable. I figured with all the Lipo batteries out there and motor choices there would be a RTR boat that could hit well over 60. Did I miss something?

Any other RTR brands out there that "go fast"?

Thx,
Steve
ps: I fly all sorts of RC and have very good battery chargers, etc.

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/27/2012 12:30 AM   
asupervee72


 

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Status: offline 		if you want a boat to do well over 60 then it is best to build your own, the rtr offerings will not survive many blow overs or crashes at that speed, not to mention they aren't really big enough.

What kind of water are you going to be running in? 60 on the water feels a hell of a lot faster then 60 in the air. I have a boat that gps'ed at 54 and a plane that would hit 80+ in a dive and the plane seemed like it was going much slower.

lakes aren't as big as the sky and you run out of ground much sooner. 60 is pretty fast for a first boat. Just my opinion though.

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/29/2012 8:44 PM   
StevL


 

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Status: offline 		I'm not worried about the speed at all. Twenty plus years ago I had a 60" Sightler mono hull that was radar in the mid 50's running a single .90 nitro, the boats (had two) were built by Doug Floyd who had about 7 IMPBA records back then I think.

I was thinking that electric boats today would be a little further along. With planes today 140-160mph is really not hard at all to accomplish and the record is at over 450mph. With my simple brain I thought that 60 in a electric boat today would be fairly easy in a rtr, maybe not.

I have two bodies of water to run on; I live on a lake that is 42 miles long and 8 miles wide (coves are smooth during the week), and then the river which is what I really want the boat for, that area is 1.5 miles long and 900 feet wide and has no full scale boating activity. This is where we float fly once a month.

Being that we have tons of 3s 5000mah batteries I guess the Traxxes Spartan is about the best we can do for a rtr boat. One person bought one today so this weekend I'll get to see it in person.


Thx,
Steve

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/29/2012 10:15 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: online 		Most RTR boats are aimed at first time buyers,its the same with planes cars trucks etc,None that i know of will hit 60 mph.If you want one to do 60 then it will need to be either custom built or as said above do it yourself.
Mart

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/30/2012 2:40 AM   
StevL


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: martno1fan

Most RTR boats are aimed at first time buyers,its the same with planes cars trucks etc,None that i know of will hit 60 mph.If you want one to do 60 then it will need to be either custom built or as said above do it yourself.
Mart


Thanks for your post!

I kind of figured this out looking around. I was hoping that there may be a hidden treasure but no such luck. I build enough planes and wasn't wanting to start a entire new hobby of building, I was really wanting simple.

Steve

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/30/2012 8:13 AM   
martno1fan



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Status: online 		Steve there is a guy somewhere on the forums who does it his name escapes me right now but ill do some searching.
Mart
pretty sure this is the guy.
http://www.keithbradleyboats.com/?page_id=4

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/30/2012 11:17 AM   
siberianhusky



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Status: offline 		Do some serious research before you buy a Spartan, there have been issues with it from day 1. There are usually many available used with very low hours, LOL usually with an aftermarket power system. It will not do 60 with the stock setup no matter how delusional Traxxas is. Many people have sent them up in smoke trying. Then those that do have the plastic hull come apart!
60 is just not realistic for an RTR boat, just not well enough manufactured.
It takes a lot to get a reliable 60 mph out of a boat, water is much different than air. The impacts are just like a plane hitting the ground. Jump off the side of a boat at 60 mph and see how soft the water feels!
It's generally accepted that right now about the best RTR mono available from a big company is the Revolt. A much better boat is the 32" Pursuit available from Offshore Electrics or Kinetec Racing. Need to add your own radio to that one. With the right setup and good conditions along with high end batteries will get you to 60 ballpark. But you need GOOD batteries to handle the amp draw.
Lots of people will chime in about how great this or that brand of cheap battery is but I guarantee they have never used a data logger and never actually seen what happens during a run, my eyes were certainly opened when I got mine. I'm really surprised I didn't do more than puff up a couple of cheap batteries, just got lucky is all I can say.
With your goals in terms of speed you would be much better served building your own out of quality name brand components.
Cheap, fast or reliable - choose only two!
It's not at all hard to build a boat, probably one of the easiest rc models to build. Drill a few holes and epoxy in a few mounts, about it!

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/30/2012 3:46 PM   
StevL


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: siberianhusky

Do some serious research before you buy a Spartan, there have been issues with it from day 1. ........
It's not at all hard to build a boat, probably one of the easiest rc models to build. Drill a few holes and epoxy in a few mounts, about it!


Thanks, I was going to watch the Spartan run tomorrow. I was thinking either buy it and play or just *maybe* build something. I noticed that the Seaducer has a lot of IMPBA records (which we know the builder operator has a lot to do with that) but it must be a good hull as a starting point. Price is my least concern, I don't want to give it away but I don't mind spending a few dollars on quality and performance. Maybe the price does tell the story......

BTW: I think Traxxes claims 50+

Thx,
Steve

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/30/2012 4:09 PM   
hobby_man


 

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Status: offline 		Steve, I have 2 Spartan's,

what the people are saying is correct, 6s on a stock Spartan = smoke, the stock motor is 1800 kv.

the 6s voltage of 22.2 x kv 1800 = 39960 no load rpm, the max for this set up is 35000 which would mean a 1600kv motor
so out of the box the boat is wrong.

the speed control capacitors will pop and the liner in the stuffing tube will melt. I would run the boat for 3 minutes and then drive it backwards
to pull water up the tube to cool the stuffing. I would pull out the drive cable and I could not touch it because of the temp.

I have had no issues with the Hull. I love the hull, I hate fiberglass, fiberglass is heavy and it stress checks all over it.

I can run my modified Spartan 54 mph all day long, Go for 60 and it too fast for the hull, I see guys on you tube going 60 plus on this boat
per their GPS. If you look at the run they are going 60 plus for a few seconds. I can hold the throttle full throttle for 4.5 minutes (3.75 miles) at 54 mph
running traxxas 8400 mah 3S lipo's, great Lipo buy the way.

I have a wire drive on mine and a seaking 180 amp speed control with a fan on it and I vented the hatch so it blows
are from the moving boat across the speed control as well.

Pick up a Spartan with the running gear and motor tray, get your own motor/speed control and a wire drive and a prop= 54 mph fun all day long

I have a revolt as well, STOCK, runs 42 for 5 minutes with turnigy nano tech (2) 2S 6000 mah 65-90c

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/30/2012 4:36 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: online 		Do yourself a favour if you build a hull yourself make sure you buy a glass or carbon hull not cheap plastic,why put $600 + into a cheap plastic hull that will simply come apart the first time you hit something.
Mart

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/30/2012 8:12 PM   
siberianhusky



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Status: offline 		As you probably already know real boats are 'glass, toys are plastic! Seen pictures of where the esc failure actually melted through the Spartan hull! Seen many other esc failures that may stain the fiberglass but never melted through it.
Go for the build you will be happier in the long run from the sounds of your expectations. Seaducers are great hull once set up.
With the speeds these things are capable of weight is not an issue, some run much better once you add some lead. My 30" hydro has 1/4 lb in the sponson tips! Runs rock solid and much faster than it was able to before the lead was added. I can now keep it pinned around a course. had to adjust the CG accordingly of course.

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RE: RTR Boats - 11/30/2012 11:00 PM   
hobby_man


 

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Status: offline 		bottom line is to do what you want

lonmn on you tube

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/1/2012 11:17 AM   
captncrunch1234


 

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The Zonda will do 60 out of the box if you change the props to a larger size.



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RE: RTR Boats - 12/1/2012 11:32 AM   
siberianhusky



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Status: offline 		They do look like a good boat, I'd really like to see one in person, looks great in pics. When the Revolt first came out I didn't like the looks of it until one of the guys bought one. Looks much nicer in person!
Another good boat to look at is the Pursuit 32" mono from Offshore electrics or Kinetec Racing. Only think I'd change is the drive cable, much easier to do maintenance on a 1 piece cable. The easier it is the more likely it will get done. With the 2 piece you either have to remove the motor or undo the strut assemble to get the cable out to grease.
Pretty good quality motor and esc in that one as well, name brand stuff with a very good reputation.

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/1/2012 2:02 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: online 		The Zonda is a nice looking boat not bad quallity but as with most chinese hulls its a little on the thin side def a decent boat though and with some strengthening in key areas would made a decent hull.Havent see the carbon version but that might be the one to go for.
Mart

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/2/2012 9:17 PM   
StevL


 

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Status: offline 		Okay, saw the Spartan run; first my buddy ran it on the NiMh batteries that come with it.... complete disappointment!!!

We noticed (we should have sooner) there was no cooling water streaming from the side of the boat. After bring the boat back in we noticed that the motor was very warm (hot) after running the NiMh for about 5 minutes. After we brought it in we let the motor and esc cool to ambient temperature. While doing cooling down we found that the cooling water inlet in the rudder had not been opened up at the factory (poor QC IMHO). We drilled the opening with a 1/16" bit and we could now blow air all the way through.

Second run; we went to 65c 3s lipos at 5000mah, it really did light up this little boat to some pretty impressive straightway speeds. I think the boat looks faster than it is due to the somewhat small size.

Concerned about cooling the boat was only run in the straights for maybe 10 seconds at a time, then some slow tooling around till the next burst of speed.

I thought the speed was acceptable, a little disappointed in the hull, that plastic seemed very inexpensive to me. The hardware looked pretty good but I know nothing about the motor and esc.

I could probably live with this boat with some mods, but the chine walking was a little much for the calm water and the conditions. We played with the CofG a little but at the top end the chime walking started every time. All other hardware was set to factory specs.

Since some new posts have arrived on this thread I think the Carbon Zonda may be my ticket!!! Awesome look to me, and the reviews look positive.

As a side note we did have some radio problems, near the end of the day the boat started losing bind/radio contact and was only a 100 feet away. This too made me think I may want a Spektrum or Futaba radio.


Steve


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RE: RTR Boats - 12/2/2012 10:20 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: online 		Stay away from Spektrum on water,too many have had problems with them so personally id stay clear.A good budget radio is the flysky type radios they work well even with gas boats.
Mart
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLYSKY-RC-FS-GT3C-3ch-2-4GHz-LCD-GT3C-Silver-Transmitter-GR3C-Receiver-TS896-/270996093195?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3f18a0390b

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/3/2012 12:03 AM   
hobby_man


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: martno1fan

Stay away from Spektrum on water,too many have had problems with them so personally id stay clear.A good budget radio is the flysky type radios they work well even with gas boats.
Mart
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLYSKY-RC-FS-GT3C-3ch-2-4GHz-LCD-GT3C-Silver-Transmitter-GR3C-Receiver-TS896-/270996093195?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3f18a0390b


what RX were they using on the water? you can use a mr300 or a mr200 on water, the land RX's that the radio's come with will not work on water.
Its a poor marketing job on Spektrums part

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/3/2012 12:27 AM   
martno1fan



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Status: online 		I don use them never will seen too many horror storys so will never buy a spektrum,yes i know they now have a marine rx but to me its too little too late.Ill stick to the flysky,sold my futtaba fasst to change to these as they work awesome and cost very little,ill never again buy expensive radio gear.

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/3/2012 9:09 AM   
siberianhusky



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Status: offline 		Probably more people are now using Spektrum on surface models than any other brand, Losi and Proboat radios are Spektrum. Probaly at least 3:1 Spektrum vs Futaba now.
If you like the radio buy it and you'll be very happy. I've had problems with Futaba after over 20 years with them, I'm a Spektrum person now and won't buy Futaba again. Cost me a 3.5cc tunnel hull!
I don't think any 2.4 technology was perfect when it came out, unfortunately for Futaba I tried one of their radios first.
There was an issue with the first implementation of 2.4 for spektrum over water but that has not been an issue since they got away from DSM and went to DSM2 then DSMX.
No idea what happened with the Futaba, all I know is I returned it got a Spektrum and some money back, never had another issue.
Actually nobody at our club uses Futaba anymore, just got to thinking about what radios people here are using.

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/3/2012 5:23 PM   
StevL


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the input! I sure wish JR made a surface radio, I'm sort of a JR fan.



Steve

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/3/2012 10:14 PM   
enelson4


 

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Status: offline 		I use both HK and Spektrum air radios over water with no problems. Most of my buddies use Spektrum. The vast majority of horror stories are just that - stories. Virtually all the 2.4 radios are incredibly well made regardless of manufacturer. After all this is cell phone technology and not rocket science. Would I use an HK or other low-line radio on a $1000 boat or plane -NO. But most reports of problems are more likely due to failure to read directions or just plain operator screw-ups than electronic problems with modern RC equipment.

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/3/2012 10:28 PM   
martno1fan



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Status: online 		The horror storys about Spektrum are well documented and proven they even admited it to me personally in an email,why else do you think they had to come out with a marine rx ?,like i said too little too late ill never buy a spektrum.
Mart
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8234778/anchors_8234778/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8234778

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/3/2012 11:51 PM   
StevL


 

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Status: offline 		Couple newbie boat question concerning 2.4

What is different with the Spektrum Marine Rx?
Looking at the Carbon Zonda I know carbon fiber can be tough in airplanes with 2.4 technology , same with boats?
Don't surface radios go into fail safe if radio signal is lost (should result in a boat floating and waiting to be picked up)?
Crazy maybe but why not use an aircraft radio on the surface (more power, and there is only one 2.4 band for all RC, a flyer may find it easier to be smooth with an aircraft radio)? Sure this will be frowned upon by the boaters out there.

And one last question for now; I ran across the Impulse 31 (smaller then I prefer but) .... did that ever turn out to be a good choice for a RTR on Lipos?

Thx!
Steve

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RE: RTR Boats - 12/4/2012 11:51 AM   
siberianhusky



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Status: offline 		The marine rx are waterproof, have dual feeder antennae and run on a different protocol than the SR rx's. SO far nothing from Futaba specifically for boaters, lol or even guys who run off road cars in the mud and water!
You can bind an air stick radio to a MR receiver but NOT a SR receiver, thats how my sailboat is, cheap SPektrum 4 channel stick radio from a RTR plane with a MR200 rx.
They only go into failsafe IF you set the failsafe properly when you bind the RX to the TX.
I'm not sure I understand your other question but all manufacturers use a different protocol but it's on the 2.4G frequency, you can't bind a Futaba rx to a Spektrum TX air or surface.
Yes carbon will block the signal, you have to get the antennae out of the hull.
I didn't lose signal when that tunnel crashed or it would/should have gone into failsafe, something else happened and the Futaba just crapped out somehow, tested fine once I got the remains back on the bench.
I don't give a crap if they had a problem and admitted it then went on to fix the problem, I like the fact they came out and admitted it! The number of top racers and pilots that now run only SPektrum is pretty impressive.
I ran Futaba exclusively from the 80's to just a few years ago, never really thought I'd change. But Spektrum offers better radios with features and options tailored to boaters for less money.

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