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Am I Ready?
Katana 50
  28% (4)
Extra 260
  28% (4)
Other (please specify)
  42% (6)


Total Votes : 14
(last vote on : 4/24/2013 8:06 PM)
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Am I Ready? - 11/27/2012 3:01 AM   
JH313


 

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Status: offline 		Hello all,
It is coming to the time of year to get the next project for my addiction (hobby). I think I may be ready for some 3D flying. My current airplane is the 40 sized Revolver with a 70 Magnum on it. I would say that I can easily take off and land the plane, along with basic aerobatics. I was thinking of getting a bird which could do 3D and IMAC, so it would have to be scale.
The two planes I have in mind are: Hangar 9 Kantana 50 and Aeroworks Extra 260 60-90. On the Kantana I was think of either a Magnum 90, or Saito 82. For the Extra I was between the Magnum 90, Saito 82 and DLE 20. The DLE would be my first venture into gas, but a lot of people at my field have that engine, so I am not too worried. I started to wonder whether these planes were over my head at this point, and which would be more beneficial/forgiving. I am open to any other suggestions, my only request is that it be nitro (or 20cc), not too expensive, and not a profile.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
JH313

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/27/2012 4:01 PM   
wind junkie



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Status: offline 		Hi JH313.

For actual LEARNING (ie, practice) I wouldn't recommend any glo or gas bird for you at this point. I highly suggest:

1) Investing in a simulator (if you don't already have one)
2) Get a good "foamie" for 3D practice. Maybe two if you can find an indoor training venue during the winter.

It sounds like you're brand new to 3D, and in that case crashes (and repairs) are expected and virtually mandatory if you want to prgress and learn. A common concern in learning 3D is doing all practice at high altitude (ie 3 mistakes high). While this is a good idea for a fragile plane (like you seem to desire at this point), it greatly slows the learning process, because the cues on which you need to concentrate (subtle changes in wing/tail positions around the high alpha regime) really can't be seen well when the plane is much more than 30 feet away. Ideally, practice should be down on the deck so any mishaps won't build up a lot of speed which will cause even more damage when (not if) a crash happens.

I understand your eventual goal is to have a good plane for both IMAC and 3D, but to be honest, in the size you're asking about, only a profile will a good training platform. IMO, only when one gets to 50cc or greater (that magic 80" wingspan is a good benchmark), the fuselage is big enough to act like one desires for good KE performance.

I don't have direct experience with the new Katana or Aeroworks Extra you're asking about. I do know the older H9 Katana was very unstable in harrier and KE performance was very poor. The larger 90 size Katana is better.

In general, the lighter and bigger the better and the more highly powered the better. A 2 to 1 thrust to weight ratio (or even greater) is desired for training (and fun!). Also, look for a lot of moving elevator surface and a lot of deflection (50 degrees or even more). This is why a profile will be king in performance. When you are skilled, I think you'll know what to look for in an IMAC / 3D capable plane, but at this stage (probably a year or more depending on your skills and dedication) I think it may be a premature to consider performing 3D with a plane you really care about and might want to compete with.

A major concern is transition to and from harrier and how well a plane starts and stops snap rolls. If a plane is so heavy (for it's wing area) it often becomes a handful when you're trying to recover from one maneuver to the next, and sometimes it's not possible to recover at all. You don't want a plane that surprises you (ie snaps out of tight turns unexpectedly) in the early learning stages. It's better to learn basics of harriers, spins (especially recovery), hard elevator maneuvers like walls and elevators on a predictable platform that won't bite you and then graduate to a more challenging platform (any "scale" IMAC bird which you seem to desire).

Don't be fooled when Mike McConville or Quique Somenzina shows you how "effortlessly" a plane seems to perform maneuvers you desire. Just because a plane is capable doesn't mean it's a good tool for training.

One more tip on the simulator: I've always thought Realflight was the best of the airplane sims for learning 3D. The physics of most of the stock 3D cpable planes (the stock Yak 54 for example) best mimics that critical "snap roll" out of a turn better than all the others I've tried (Aerofly, FS One). For training on a sim, I feel it's best to start with the most difficult example of what you'd like to eventually fly, that way the real plane will be simple by comparison. Any of the sims will tech your left thumb what do do when the belly faces you in a torque roll ( a common desire ), but few will actually mimic the actual real world nuances around the harrier to normal flight transitions, and "snappy" characteristics of highly loaded planes.

good luck in your quest,
Joe

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/27/2012 6:13 PM   
DenverJayhawk



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Status: offline 		get a profile foamie. I like DW Foamies.

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/27/2012 8:37 PM   
JH313


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the advice. I guess I realized something though, a plane doesn't seem like fun to me unless it is scale, or looks scale. Just who I am I suppose. Maybe I should look for something more scale than 3D. I also suppose I should have phrased this "3D capable." I learned something about myself today which I didn't realize at first. I really liked these planes based on the scale appearance, but based on my flying maybe I should stay off. I am a sport pilot at heart, though, and that is more of what I am looking for, come to realize it. My preference is also speed, giving me the nickname "hot rod" at the field.
Thanks for the advice, I have a lot of thinking to do.

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/27/2012 11:03 PM   
wind junkie



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Status: offline 		I understand. Actually, I think many of not most "aspiring 3D pilots" seem to share your opinion.

It really does come down to "seeing yourself in the picture." Sure it's cool to do 3D with a scale plane. Cubs and even Mustangs CAN 3D (in the right hands and given enough power and control authority). But realizing the road ahead is a big part of it so you don't waste money and time.

I forget who first said it but for R/C it's definitely true : "Life's too short to fly ugly planes." For me, "beauty is as beauty does" and that means I'm happy to fly lots of great performing planes (even if they look "ugly" to some). But I realize it's a very personal choice, and if you know you're not going to be happy in an endeavor (especially one which requires so much dedication as learning 3D), it's best to enter that choice prepared.

3D is certainly NOT a "high speed" activity. I have plenty of 3D "hot rods" but few of them can be flown very fast.


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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/28/2012 4:15 AM   
zacharyR


 

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Status: offline 		want a pretty 3d plane ?


71 " slick just don't dumb thumb

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/28/2012 6:32 PM   
ThumbSkull



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Status: offline 		After you learn 3D well is the time to think of a nice looking scale bird that will 3D.
Learning will be MUCH easier with lighter than scale wing loading.
I'm not trying to kill your dream at all, just help you realize it the least expensive way.

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/28/2012 8:49 PM   
hugger-4641



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Status: offline 		The Parkzone Extra 300 would be a good inexpensive way to try some 3D and see if that's what you like. It's a foamie, but not a profile. Go to Hobbyzone.com and click on the Parkzone tab to check it out. 

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/28/2012 9:41 PM   
zacharyR


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hugger-4641

The Parkzone Extra 300 would be a good inexpensive way to try some 3D and see if that's what you like. It's a foamie, but not a profile. Go to Hobbyzone.com and click on the Parkzone tab to check it out. 




this is a Sport plane it's a foamy but's its not really a 3D foamy more sport .. granted it will do 3D but it's more sport plane

if you are hell bent on eflite stuff QQ did design a new EDGE foamy thats coming out shortly

but other foamys alreayd out there 3D alot better

twisted hobbys has some popluar good flying tuff airplanes as well as fancy foamy / tech one and few others try to stay away from dapron .....







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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/28/2012 9:46 PM   
JH313


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you all. The fact that scale interests me more at this point than the 3D maneuvers has pointed out to me that I should just get a scale plane and work more on the basics. It is a thought I have had before, and one I probably will not regret. At this point, I will set off 3D until a time where a small electric will be my only option (college) and I could then work at those skills. For right now, though, I will probably stay nitro (unless I get something for a DLE 20 ) Thanks all for the advice, and I will continue to practice on a sim so when I do get a small electric plane I could start off ok. By the way, I like the UMX Sbach with AS3X.
Thanks again.

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/28/2012 9:52 PM   
zacharyR


 

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Status: offline 		DLE20 mojo 65 or a 3DHS velox imo Mojor's tuffer more forgiving


want go to cheap and able to keep in a dorm room get that vaul hobby saber .. or a extream flight EXP



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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/29/2012 6:24 AM   
nitro wing


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JH313

Thank you all. The fact that scale interests me more at this point than the 3D maneuvers has pointed out to me that I should just get a scale plane and work more on the basics. It is a thought I have had before, and one I probably will not regret. At this point, I will set off 3D until a time where a small electric will be my only option (college) and I could then work at those skills. For right now, though, I will probably stay nitro (unless I get something for a DLE 20 ) Thanks all for the advice, and I will continue to practice on a sim so when I do get a small electric plane I could start off ok. By the way, I like the UMX Sbach with AS3X.
Thanks again.

skip the small micro stuff, waste of time. flies fast and agile. looks like a toy, way more fun with a decent size plane, recomend E flite 480/ 3dhs or ef stuff and up for sure, some smaller foamies can count as well, just not micro.

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/29/2012 8:10 AM   
ameyam


 

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Status: offline 		OP, you are going to get a lot of advice on which airplane to get. The AW Extra 60-90 I am told is very lightly built and will take no abuse. As a beginner in 3D you need something a bit sturdier. I suggest you have a look at the Reactor 46 and put in a 80 or 90 4C (65 or 75 2C). Its a nice sturdy airplane- you just need to beef up the LG plate. Look up that on the dedicated thread and reinforce before you break. You will like the airplane, from personal experience, it will take a lot of abuse, provided you always end on the ground on the wheels:-)

Ameyam

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/29/2012 5:45 PM   
DenverJayhawk



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Status: offline 		I cannot stress how much you should get a profile foamie. Skip the micro stuff from Tower or Horizon. Get a DW Foamie or something from Twisted Hobbies. Don't go with Balsa as your first 3D bird. You want something to practice down low. Trust me, hovering, rollers, etc are all easier down low where you can see everything. You want foam for learning.

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/29/2012 5:49 PM   
zacharyR


 

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Status: offline 		the dumb bird is correct in what hes saying


and hes probly high !

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/30/2012 7:34 PM   
DenverJayhawk



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Status: offline 		wow. Thanks, Zippy. Are you familiar with KU?

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/30/2012 9:05 PM   
wyo69cowboy



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Status: offline 		To the OP: there's some awesome advice in here; wish I'd have had it 5 years ago when I first ventured into 3D. My first 3D plane was the aforementioned Reactor; flies very well but you cannot do anything more than a rough landing or you'll be replacing airframe parts and/or the whole plane. I bought that plane cuz it was cool looking (and I now have and love a 50cc Reactor) but I sure wish I'd have started with a profile foamy. Buy your "pretty, scale plane" and sport fly it to get yourself more experience, but leave the learning to the ugly, effective tools LOL. Twisted Hobbies Crak Yak or similar (have one), Value Hobbies Sabre 35 (have had 3), DW Foamies in a variety of sizes (have a 55" BAF Yak); these are all great help in learning

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RE: Am I Ready? - 11/30/2012 9:24 PM   
zacharyR


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DenverJayhawk

wow. Thanks, Zippy. Are you familiar with KU?



[>:] corn ? and corn studys ?

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RE: Am I Ready? - 1/26/2013 9:26 PM   
izzy-israel-73


 

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I  am new to 3D flying i started off flying a diablo with a OS 46 ax in it for 3Ding  they are quiet a cheap plane $120.00 AU . I picked it up pritty quike as i only have been flying for just on 2 years, but what i found out was that a simulator is the right way to go ! Setting up the plane i found out was the hardest thing about the hole thing lol...



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