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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> RE: Kill Switch regulations
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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/4/2012 12:30 AM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		Ok! So, I got one of these engine's ( see pic below ) how do I go about hooking up an Iso opto? I don't wanna hurt anyone with the 24x10 prop.

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/4/2012 12:33 AM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		OOOPS! With that engine I belong over in the glow thread's. My bad.
ROTFLMAO


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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/4/2012 2:22 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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Gas engines are capable of it, why not use whats available?

I see you live in FL but I'll bet you dont run around in the summer with the windows down if you have AC available

< Message edited by BarracudaHockey -- 12/4/2012 3:18 PM >

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/4/2012 4:09 PM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		As a matter of fact I do. I do not like cold, below about the mid 80's and I'm cold. And don't mind those post, was just having some fun. Everyone has their own way. No right-no wrong, just their way. I did have my first couple of gasser's with an opto-kill. After a year of flyin  and not ever useing it, I, key word here being ( I ), decided not to use them any more. But I am very meticulous about my set up and operation. I'm so annal even though my batteries will last the day I still check them after each flight.  I do have the throttle and choke as means for killing it. And I do have the failsafe set up as well. So for ME, I am more than confident I will not have an issue. But as for other's, well, that's another story. Sometime's!

< Message edited by acerc -- 12/4/2012 7:56 PM >


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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/4/2012 7:37 PM   
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Status: offline 		My cousin lives just on the other side of Tampa Bay....in Seminole...nice area on a no traffic dead end street. Capt,n

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/10/2012 5:32 PM   
Charley


 

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ORIGINAL: Len Todd


I have thought much about having the ignition cut off on me if there was a ''Hold'' on my transmitter. However, I have seen one ''Hold'' and the engine kept running. I have not seen any brownouts, that I know of, with dozens of hours on the plane.  And, … I fly those planes way out there, sometimes a mile or more. I usually see 0 Frame Losses'', 0 ''Holds'' and 40-50 ''fades'' on each of the 3 remote Rxers per 15 minute flight. (DLE 111, AR9210, DX8 + TM1000)



This paragraph is a little confusing. It refers to "the plane" but then says "I fly those planes way out there..." Are you writing that you're flying a giant scale model w/gas engine out of sight? FPV?

CR

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/10/2012 6:07 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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Status: online 		Right, either the mile or more is bunk (almost 6000 feet you wouldn't be able to see it) or you're doing something pretty ......uh....irresponsible ........is probably the most pc word to use.

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/10/2012 6:47 PM   
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ORIGINAL: acerc

Ok! So, I got one of these engine's ( see pic below ) how do I go about hooking up an Iso opto? I don't wanna hurt anyone with the 24x10 prop.


Well, that does pose a challenge.


Since it is glow about the only thing a opto-switch would do is kill power to glow plug ignotor array.
I would suggest a flood off device or a fuel cut off device like they use in Free Flight or RC pylon racing events.


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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/11/2012 4:25 AM   
Len Todd


 

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ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

Right, either the mile or more is bunk (almost 6000 feet you wouldn't be able to see it) or you're doing something pretty ......uh....irresponsible ........is probably the most pc word to use.


Ya, I exaggerated a bit. A mile is ~5280'. After measuring my flight paths on the map, my furthest distance out there was just ~ 4000 feet. Our runway is 3800' long and I was beyond one end and the plane past the other end. It looked like a mile though! 

Not sure how flying that far away would be irresponsible though, I am still over the airport's wooded property, can see the plane and have control. At 4000 feet away, I see the plane just fine, unless it is flying directly away from me. Then, I move the plane up a bit and I can figure out if its orientation is off. And the zero frame losses and holds tell me I still have control. The plane is a 33% Extra 300L (i.e. 102" wingspan) and it is bright red. If I did not have the undeveloped property under  it, maybe.

But you are right. It was not a mile. Sorry about that. It was a guesstimate. I had to lay it out on the map to really figure it out.


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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/11/2012 7:40 AM   
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ORIGINAL: p39

I was at an IMAA event at Topeka a few years ago where one flyer let another fly his rather large Yak. He accidently flipped the optical kill switch perhaps thinking it was the smoke switch. The engine killed. No way of restarting it and it crashed into a shed. I'm hesitant of optical kill switches relying on my idle cut off instead.


The powerbox one has to have the TX switch flipped twice. I've often wondered though, if the switch were fliped by mistake would your natural reaction be to if it back again....

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/11/2012 2:29 PM   
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Status: online 		The irresponsible part was meant for if you were potentially saying you were flying a giant scale gasser FPV where you couldn't see and avoid full scale aircraft.

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/11/2012 4:53 PM   
Len Todd


 

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ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

The irresponsible part was meant for if you were potentially saying you were flying a giant scale gasser FPV where you couldn't see and avoid full scale aircraft.


No problem. The airport here sees 2-3 planes a week and closes in November thru April. Also, the airport property has dozens of acres of unused property around the two runways. So we have a lot of freedom out there, including use of the runways. Also,our flightline is out in the middle of the airport property, which is an open field (Est. 40 acres). We can see full scale aircraft for several miles out. We have lots of airspcae!




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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/13/2012 2:19 AM   
MercerAUST


 

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Status: offline 		I'd like to contribute to this thread, but after reading through all the posts I'm not sure I can.

For some reason, when I built my first >14lb plane I thought one had to have a remote cut-off. An optical kill switch was the easiest for my application. Then, for some reason, I thought you needed a remote kill for all gas engines. I assumed this was because they were typically larger displacement engines married to >14lb aircraft. I'm not sure about the rules, if any, for jet turbines or helicopters. My first optical kill switch cost nearly $100, now they are about $15.

Of course, over the last two years, there has been a proliferation of small gas engines from 8cc - 26cc so the gas rule cannot apply. Then again, there have always been plenty of glo engines of 26cc or greater.

Perhaps the aircraft size is the deciding factor. As pointed out on this thread, there are many ways to remotely kill an engine so maybe one just uses the application that best suits when building the plane, flying conditions or pilot preference.

I've recently started flying a 10lb Mew Gull with a gas engine and optical kill switch. But the reason is because I have deliberately set the throttle so the lowest setting on the transmitter is a very fast idle (this is to help me land the plane better - if I have a normal idle, I'm always tempted to push the revs too low in the last foot or so which can be disasterous with this style of plane). Once on the ground, I use the kill switch to end my run-out. I used to have a dual switch to control the idle, but sometimes found it confusing. Just my preference.

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/13/2012 2:51 AM   
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Status: offline 		Interestingly enough there seems to be quite a few people having throttle servos fail on their gassers. It seems like every week someone reports that their throttle servo keeps going bad on them and what can they do to mitigate the problerm. Unfortunately, when the throttle quits working, it usually isn't where the engine goes to a low idle either. Worst is when the engine is at a fast idle, too fast to land and too slow to fly, and they have 30 minutes or so of fuel to burn off. I remember one guy had his throttle fail and it was stuck at full throttle. But the engine was set too lean and burned up on him before it ran out of fuel.  So maybe some way to kill the engine, if the throttle isn't working, isn't all that bad of a idea.


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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/13/2012 4:21 AM   
captinjohn


 

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ORIGINAL: earlwb

Interestingly enough there seems to be quite a few people having throttle servos fail on their gassers. It seems like every week someone reports that their throttle servo keeps going bad on them and what can they do to mitigate the problerm. Unfortunately, when the throttle quits working, it usually isn't where the engine goes to a low idle either. Worst is when the engine is at a fast idle, too fast to land and too slow to fly, and they have 30 minutes or so of fuel to burn off. I remember one guy had his throttle fail and it was stuck at full throttle. But the engine was set too lean and burned up on him before it ran out of fuel.  So maybe some way to kill the engine, if the throttle isn't working, isn't all that bad of a idea.



 If the guy with the throttle that stuck wide open, had a servo on the choke he could have closed the choke enough too slow the airplane down and got the airplane in a landing approach...then placed the choke on all the way and stopped the engine for a good landing.  A good save of engine & airplane !   Capt,n

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/13/2012 3:54 PM   
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Status: online 		Proper throttle servo setup can mitigate that risk but yes, they can fail. Linkages can fail. I had a screw vibrate out of the throttle arm on the engine . I was flying around at 1/3 throttle or so for 40 minutes at a busy event waiting for the gas to run out so I could dead stick in. It wasn't a pleasant feeling. A choke servo could serve the same purpose but I've also seen a gas engine on full choke run long enough to skip across a taxi way and plow into a safety fence. I saw a fly around till dead stick on a plane at an event a couple weeks ago.

Choke servos certainly arent a bad idea but if killing the engine is the purpose and not choking it, I prefer a kill switch. If my reciever battery dies, throttle servo dies, linkage gives out, or I get a fail safe event, then I know the engine is going to stop.

To those worried about accidental switch flipping, not much I can say there. I know I always put it on a switch on the top back of my transmitter that has to be pulled towards me to cut, and I rest my fingers between the front and back switches so that I have to pick my finger up over the switch then pull it towards me to kill. Certainly not fool proof but it works for me.

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/13/2012 4:17 PM   
Charley


 

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ORIGINAL: captinjohn

 If the guy with the throttle that stuck wide open, had a servo on the choke he could have closed the choke enough too slow the airplane down and got the airplane in a landing approach...then placed the choke on all the way and stopped the engine for a good landing.  A good save of engine & airplane !   Capt,n


I have never liked the idea of choking the engine to stop it. Had enough trouble starting flooded engines to to make me leery of flooding one on purpose. I'm not big on putting throttle servos inside the cowl either. I like 'em behind the firewall. Not as much heat, vibration and oil back there. I've not yet used an optical kill switch; always used a small servo and a microswitch in series with the manual ignition switch. Seems like I always have a spare servo around. I'll go the optical route next time. Easier to install, I guess.

Bottom line is I like being able to kill the engine from the transmitter at will; both for safety and convenience.

CR

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/13/2012 5:19 PM   
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Status: offline 		My son just recently picked up a Giant Super Sportster with a Zenoah G38.  The previous owner installed a microswitch/servo kinda thingy for a remote kill.  I think that I would like to change that, but I have searched several sites for an optical kill switch, but cannot seem to find any wiring diagrams that support a magneto ignition.  Any suggestions?

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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/13/2012 8:32 PM   
Len Todd


 

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ORIGINAL: Lone Star Charles

My son just recently picked up a Giant Super Sportster with a Zenoah G38.  The previous owner installed a microswitch/servo kinda thingy for a remote kill.  I think that I would like to change that, but I have searched several sites for an optical kill switch, but cannot seem to find any wiring diagrams that support a magneto ignition.  Any suggestions?


Just an idea:

Seems like a solid state switching transistor or small mechanical relay on the output of a Smartfly Optical Kill Switch would work.  That would give you the isolation and give you a switch to run the mag ciruit thru. But first, I would give Smart Fly a call and see what they have recommended in the past.




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RE: Kill Switch regulations - 12/14/2012 4:30 PM   
Charley


 

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ORIGINAL: Lone Star Charles

My son just recently picked up a Giant Super Sportster with a Zenoah G38.  The previous owner installed a microswitch/servo kinda thingy for a remote kill.  I think that I would like to change that, but I have searched several sites for an optical kill switch, but cannot seem to find any wiring diagrams that support a magneto ignition.  Any suggestions?


The kill switch on a magneto G-38 grounds the coil to stop the engine. IOW, the switch connects the coil to a screw on the engine case. The optical kill switch (OKS) disconnects the battery from the electronic ignition to stop the engine. In the mag engine the switch is turned "on" to stop the engine. In the EI setups the electronic switch in the OKS is turned "off" to stop the engine. So to use the OKS on a magneto engine you might be able to connect it from the coil to the case instead of from the battery to the EI. You'd have to check with the OKS manufacturer to see if the OKS could stand the back EMF from the magneto coil.

Does the kill switch in the airplane work? If it works, I'd leave it alone.

CR

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