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FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/1/2012 4:49 PM   
POWER JET


 

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From: Athens, GREECE
Status: offline 		 Hi all,
I'm facing a problem today,with my Futaba 12Z radio.
Today i went to the field ,i take off my jet and i could't trim the ailerons.The jet is a Hotspot with ailevator mixing.
When i landed ,i check the trim on the ground and i had no movement at all !! The subtrim from the menu worked .
 I decide to do a test and I bind one futaba receiver,of my friend at the field and the trim worked normally.
Then i tried to create another model and see if happens again and i had the same results.
The trim doesn't worked again.
By the way,i didn't had this problem a week ago when i went to the field.
.
Does anybody knows what's going on?

Thanks in advance for any replies...





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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/1/2012 5:15 PM   
quist



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Status: offline 		Go to the function menu, check your trim control setting for aileron.

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/1/2012 6:26 PM   
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I checked this to the function menu and it's the correct trim button..

Is there is a chance to have a bug in the software of my 12Z?I update the radio about 5 months ago



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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/1/2012 6:30 PM   
afterburner



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Status: offline 		Also make sure that the aileron and elevator trims are set to combined and not seperate. That might be the problem.

Marty

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/1/2012 10:31 PM   
jescardin


 

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From: Talamanca de JaramaMadrid, SPAIN
Status: offline 		Lets try this:

1.- Create a normal new model with 1 aileron servo and normal tail.
2.- Go to the Servo Test in the Linkage o Model Menu and check all stick controls, then trim correction.
3.- If aileron stick works but right, left or both trims don´t, then most probably you have died trim buttons.

You may try a "in field" solution, but be ready for sending the transmitter to your FUTABA Service.

1.- Get type 1 contact cleaner spray.
2.- With the transmitter off, touch the trim to the right and apply the contact cleaner (please, be careful as most contact cleaners erase little trims letters on the transmitter).
3.- With the transmitter off, touch the trim to the left ans also apply contact cleaner (again, be careful or after the repair when you clean the transmitter the little letters may be erased).
4.- Still with the transmitter off, very quickly apply left and right trim. This must be done as if you were playing with an electronic game. Do it at least for a minute.
5.- Switch on the transmitter and check if the trims sound and if the trim indicators on Home Screen moves.

If that fails, then you have no other solution than sending the transmitter to the repair service.

Good luck and best regards,

Jesus Cardin

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/2/2012 6:29 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: afterburner

Also make sure that the aileron and elevator trims are set to combined and not seperate. That might be the problem.

Marty
I also checked this,they are combined not seperate



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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/2/2012 6:42 AM   
POWER JET


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jescardin

Lets try this:

1.- Create a normal new model with 1 aileron servo and normal tail.
2.- Go to the Servo Test in the Linkage o Model Menu and check all stick controls, then trim correction.
3.- If aileron stick works but right, left or both trims don´t, then most probably you have died trim buttons.

Jesus Cardin


I tested this way on my other model i had on the field,a L59 and the trim working perfectly.I also tested on my friends plane.I bind the receiver and the receiver on his model and the trim worked.
Maybe is a malfuction of the transmitter.Or maybe is the receiver!!

My next move is to check the receiver.




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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/2/2012 7:47 AM   
mongo



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Status: offline 		just for grins, what is the elevator trim doing on the model that has the non functioning aileron trim? is it still working OK?


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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/2/2012 11:16 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mongo

just for grins, what is the elevator trim doing on the model that has the non functioning aileron trim? is it still working OK?
Yes the elevator trim works ok and every other trim works ok .
I don't understand why this happening.
I believe is a malfunction of the software menu.
I install another receiver ,same as the one i have in the model,and i'm having the same results.The aileron trin doesn't working!!

Futaba must update the software of the 12Z and fix the problem!!



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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/2/2012 12:24 PM   
Bob_B



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Status: offline 		If you create a new model with std control functions ,1 aileron an the trim functions normally the problem is in your ailevater setup.

Did you possibly deactvate the trim?

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/2/2012 5:32 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bob_B

If you create a new model with std control functions ,1 aileron an the trim functions normally the problem is in your ailevater setup.

Did you possibly deactvate the trim?


How can i possibly deactivate the trim?How can i do that?
From the fuction menu is the only way to do it. But no, the trim is active.
There is not so much to do in the ailevator menu.It's very simple.So i don't think so.
The strange thing  is that the trim was working ,on my previous flights with my jet and  suddenly yesterday, the  trim was not working!!

I don't know where and what else to search in the menu to see if something is wrong!
I'll call on the phone Futaba service ,in first place and if they don't give me a solution probably i will shipped the radio for service.









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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/2/2012 5:34 PM   
Gary Arthur



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Status: offline 		If you can send your set up to me I can put it in my radio to see whats going on..

send to

wildrice@quickclic.net

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/2/2012 6:35 PM   
siclick33


 

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Status: offline 		Have a look at this link? It looks like this means that this is normal for the 12z?

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5698224/anchors_5698224/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#5698224

Odd that there is no delta function/wing type.

If you plug a servo into the 'aileron' channel does this trim?

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/2/2012 6:43 PM   
siclick33


 

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Status: offline 		I've looked at the manual and it looks like there is a 'tail less wing' option for the wing type. Should you be using this instead of Ailevator?

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 9:01 AM   
POWER JET


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: siclick33

Have a look at this link? It looks like this means that this is normal for the 12z?

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5698224/anchors_5698224/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#5698224

Odd that there is no delta function/wing type.

If you plug a servo into the 'aileron' channel does this trim?
 


That's exactly the same that  happens to me!!I pluged a servo in to the ''aileron channels'' and i had no trim function.

About the link, in a few words,what i get from this is this.. Futaba says, 
if you use an, ailevator wing type and you need to trim the ailerons  during flight  ,you must be already, before takeoff,have the foresight to be on screen on LINKAGE MENU on submenu FUCTION,on submenu SUBTRIM, to trim the ailerons throught ELEV and ELEV2 subtrim.

This is what i get from this! Right?!!


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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 9:02 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: siclick33

I've looked at the manual and it looks like there is a 'tail less wing' option for the wing type. Should you be using this instead of Ailevator?


In which page did you see this?


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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 9:21 AM   
siclick33


 

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Status: offline 		The tailless wing is shown in a number of places in the manual. In the one I downloaded, it is shown is page 53 (in the 'Model type' settings).

It is also shown on the table on Page 46 (tailless wing table on 'servo connection by model type') and this also shows you what the default channels are for the servos.



What I understand from the Futaba support comment is that the ailevator function is used for adding roll mixing to the tail when you are using normal ailerons as well. The elevator trim moves the tail but the aileron trim still moves the ailerons (and not the tail). Your trim is working but you can't see it because you don't have ailerons. You need to pick a 'flying wing' wing type and not use ailevator. I might be wrong as I don't use 12Z (but do use Futaba) but that is how it appears to me.

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 11:19 AM   
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		siclick is correct, that's how I have my Rookie set up, use the tailless wing in "Model set up" with "Winglets" for the twin rudders, in the "Airbrake" selection you can also choose opposite operation for crow braking.

Ailevator is also used for twin elevator operation by reversing one of the servo's in the Tx.

Mike

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 11:26 AM   
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From: Talamanca de JaramaMadrid, SPAIN
Status: offline 		It is just what "siclick33" has explained!.

I didn´t notice your jet is a Hotspot and that you used ailevator mix. This is important to note that "Ailevator" IS NOT A WING CONFIGURATION but a tail mix for normal tails (rudder and elevator).

For flying wings you must create a model with such configuration (will not be offered a tail type) and the mix will automatically included.

Please note that if you keep T12Z original channel asignation aileron is not channel 1 but 4. Go the manual channels asignation tables for details.

"Ailevator" mixing is commonly used in 3D aerobatic models so that elevators also move as ailerons giving a more crisp roll response. I didn´t know that aileron trim does not affect elevators but have a reason as other way, after trimming ailerons you should have not centered elevators and that should be very evident on the ground.

Check that and if it is the problem, you should need to create a new model or modify the model type on the memory. In any case, be prepared for losing all data programmed.

Best Regards,

Jesus Cardin

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 12:56 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: siclick33

The tailless wing is shown in a number of places in the manual. In the one I downloaded, it is shown is page 53 (in the 'Model type' settings).

It is also shown on the table on Page 46 (tailless wing table on 'servo connection by model type') and this also shows you what the default channels are for the servos.



What I understand from the Futaba support comment is that the ailevator function is used for adding roll mixing to the tail when you are using normal ailerons as well. The elevator trim moves the tail but the aileron trim still moves the ailerons (and not the tail). Your trim is working but you can't see it because you don't have ailerons. You need to pick a 'flying wing' wing type and not use ailevator. I might be wrong as I don't use 12Z (but do use Futaba) but that is how it appears to me.


So i'm using the wrong wing type?What i must change?


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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 1:28 PM   
siclick33


 

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Status: offline 		Have you read the MODEL TYPE section of the manual?

I don't have a 12Z here but under WING TYPE you should have an option for FLYING WING 2 AILERONS (assuming you are using one servo per control surface). It looks like it might be on page 2/2 of the WING TYPE options.

As Jesus says, you may lose your settings when doing this so I would set it up as a new model as if you were starting from the beginning.

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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 3:56 PM   
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Status: offline 		When you change wing or model type it WILL start a new model from scratch.
So to avoid losing everything that you have programmed, just start a new model from scratch so that you can look back into the original model to get values for various settings.
Yes it means starting over with the setup, the good part is that everything on the model is already set up mechanically so it should not be that bad to just program the new model to match.

It is important to select the configuration that matches your model at the very beginning of setup, there are a lot of mixes and setting that will default to what you will be needing as you continue.

This is done this way on purpose, If you changed wing type the radio would have no idea of what you wanted to do with various settings that no longer apply. You would end up with a mess trying to figure out what all did or did not change.


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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 4:36 PM   
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Yes, i know, that is better to create a new model than do some changes on the current model.

But as i can see, in the manual there is no other wing type function,

that will control ailerons and elevators, as the ailvators wing type.




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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 4:49 PM   
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Status: offline 		This is the board with servo connection as it is in the manual of the 12 Z... 

Attachments
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RE: FUTABA 12Z TRIM PROBLEM(?) - 12/3/2012 4:52 PM   
siclick33


 

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Status: offline 		Ailevator is a TAIL type. You need to look in the WING TYPE option in the LINKAGE menu.

Look at page 52 of the manual.

Can you confirm what you are trying to achieve? How many servos do you have on the 'ailerons' and 'elevators'? Are you using separate elevators and ailerons or are you using elevons?

In either case, you need to get the wing type correct first.

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