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TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/2/2012 3:34 PM   
busvanman99


 

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After you've mastered the basics of r/c flight on your simulator, or at least taken off and landed at least once, you may think you're ready to tear up the skies with your "real" brand new- just out of the box - way overpriced , but just have to have it -rc airplane! Well, think this through clearly. The sim helps, but believe me, the "real" flying only compares to the computer- in your dreams. If you are ready to scatter that $275.00 rc plane over 30 yards of real estate , go ahead and give her a shot! It's your moola! There's only 2 kinds of r/c pilots-the kind that have crashed several aircraft, and the kind that will. I've been flying rc for 23 years and never have talked to an r/c pilot that has NEVER EVER crashed at least 10 in his career. Some more-some less. If you would like to cut down the expense of OOPS, and DUMB THUMBS incidents, get an experienced pilot and use the BUDDY BOX. Great way to learn and will save a ton on ca and balsa, and if the new Trainer goes in, guess who will feel guilty enough to give you his old Piper Cub to sooth the pain-after all, HE was on the sticks when your plane bit the dust, not you. The main thing is to have fun, learn,spend, cry a little, make excuses, and watch the you tube videos of all the crashes that are goin on, cause, all planes have an expiration date on them-even the experts can't avoid the elevator servo that just decided to peg itself 10 feet off the runway. Cheers!

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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/2/2012 4:31 PM   
JollyPopper



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Status: offline 		Happy holiday season to you, too.


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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/2/2012 4:40 PM   
JPMacG


 

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Status: offline 		Good advice, but needs to be rewritten without the bitterness and sarcasm.

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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/3/2012 1:59 AM   
countilaw



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Status: offline 		I know where you are coming from .      Flying that simulator with nothing to lose, but a  half a second to press the reset button,  is  totally different than flying your expensive RC plane.      When you're holding that    "cheap"  transmitter you bought with the   RTR   P51 is  so very different than holding the simulator transmitter.       Your knees are going to be shaking,  your hands are going numb,   and your brain will be in total  function shut down.  


Get a trainer with a buddy box and save yourself some grief and expense.  

Frank  



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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/3/2012 2:13 AM   
Edwin


 

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Status: offline 		Got two new students in the last week, both did exactly that. Did the sim, bought the planes and flew and crashed them. After crashing several times, they found our web site and looked me up as one of the club instructors. One has had 5 flights already with me and cant believe why he didnt think of this earlier. The other showed up at the field yesterday and talked with the first guy enough to convince himself he's gonna buddy box with me. I see this several times a year.

If I gave a plane to every student that crashed, I'd be broke. I let them all know that I can save it once in the air and flying. When it comes to takeoff and landing training, I let them know up front their plane will probably get some damage. Theres only so much I can do when they are low and slow like that and I will do my dead level best to save it. But sometimes, bad things happen. I will at least help them repair it.

Edwin

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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/9/2012 8:29 AM   
DGrant



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quote:

ORIGINAL: JPMacG

Good advice, but needs to be rewritten without the bitterness and sarcasm.


You should get right on it... seeing as you brought it up..



and yes.. it is good advice. hopefully it will save someone some trouble.


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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/9/2012 11:41 AM   
Rodney



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Status: online 		I agree that learning with an instructor and a buddy box is the best way. However, practice on the sim can be very helpful. I know many new flyers that benefited greatly using the simulator. Even the experienced ones usually gain a little from using it plus it is a lot of fun. For anyone that does not have an instructor available, the sim is often the only way they can learn and it will certainly help prevent the more prevalent mistakes a new flyer makes. In most all cases, the simulator is a big plus.

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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/9/2012 2:43 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		If more folks got started on 2 channel gliders and old timer designs with single digit wingloadings enough wasted money and time could have been saved collectively [by all misguided RC aviation bretheren] to wipe out cancer [ ]
These types of planes [by design] give pilots experience with judging dead stick landing scenarios every flight.
With these planes there's no need for a buddy box. You can lay the radio on the ground and eat a sandwich with the model trimmed to fly big circles.
There's always time later to "move up" to the heavier 4 channel trainers afterwards.


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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/9/2012 3:51 PM   
topspin


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JPMacG

Good advice, but needs to be rewritten without the bitterness and sarcasm.



I agree but he does have a good point. I would go as far as to say that RC flight simulators are just toys like video games and very little real training value. The way to learn to fly is to go to the field with a good instructor and start flying. One you learn the basics the rest is a matter of practice but there is simply no substitute for the real world.

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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/9/2012 8:27 PM   
Edwin


 

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Status: offline 		I view sims as the first step to training if a student wants to go that route. It saves me a bunch of time by training their fingers to the controls. That takes quite awhile. Many times I tell them up trim and they push the elevator trim away from the body (down trim), or they push the wrong trim tab. Learning the sticks on the sim is a big time saver, at least for me. But once they have the real thing in their paws they usually comment about how unrealistic the sims are. I dont know, I seldom fly a sim cause I just dont get that much out of it. I only have one to use at school demos we do. Kids love it.
Edwin

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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/9/2012 8:57 PM   
Bill G



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Status: offline 		Being more specific, the problem with a sim is that it gives you the equivalent of the most perfect flying example of the subject. They tend to glide and stall much more gently and predictably than the real model. If you have an experienced flyer trim the plane for you and set an ideal cg, you may have a workable transfer from the simulation.

The problem with advice is that different people work in different ways. Learning alone may cause you to go through a few unnecessary hoops, but you will learn in the process. I never had an instructor, which helped me to further reinforce everything I learned, as well as encouraging me to research info. You have to take it more seriously that way. Some of the most accomplished modelers started out as the types that would forge ahead and experiment with anything, using any method, even though people tried to convince them otherwise. I've probably proven as much of the "advice" thrown at me as being incorrect or misleading, as I have found to actually be correct and helpful.


quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

If more folks got started on 2 channel gliders and old timer designs with single digit wingloadings enough wasted money and time could have been saved collectively [by all misguided RC aviation bretheren] to wipe out cancer [ ]
These types of planes [by design] give pilots experience with judging dead stick landing scenarios every flight.
With these planes there's no need for a buddy box. You can lay the radio on the ground and eat a sandwich with the model trimmed to fly big circles.
There's always time later to ''move up'' to the heavier 4 channel trainers afterwards.

Very true, and funny.

The foam ARFs that many are starting out with today, have just gotten way out of hand. They are so heavy now, that I can generally build a scale plane and come out much lighter than them. 36" Heston Phoenix for example with retracts and sheeted fuse at 16oz AUW. I cringe looking at the AUWs of many of the smaller ARFs these days. Everyone loves the scale retracts, flaps, landing lights etc, that all add weight. With the added weight, you now have a plane with a 2000+mAh lipo, that could have had a 900mAh, or even smaller. I've had an Alfa FW190 forever. Not seeing gear drop down for landing has not taken anything away from the experience. At it's light weight, it is a perfect example of a plane that actually does fly rail perfectly, just like the sim. Not self levelling and correcting, but perfect handling and low stall speed. The plane has earned so much respect for me that I try not to abuse it, as I've gotten out of countless events that I never could have, with a heavier plane.

Reinforcing Combat Pig's statement further, I started out with some heavy ARF piece of junk some years ago. They were often real junk then. Getting nowhere, while also trying to fly a few scratch builds, I broke down and bought a Slow Stick. Flew right out of my hands, enjoying it from the first instant without crashes. Beautiful experience.

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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/9/2012 9:54 PM   
DGrant



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Status: offline 		A good sim, and sim time is a definate tool in the learning process.. it helps greatly to build the "muscle memory" needed.. much akin to a musician's muscle memory needed to sustain actions long enough to complete a song.

There are definately areas that the sim can't even come close though.... and a sim will never take the place of of an instructor.. SAFETY would be the first and foremost.. and a good instructor can verbalize the significance of that.. in a firm way if needed.. by good observation of his student would determine that... A sim will not tell where and how to place your hands on and around the plane for starting purposes.. A sim wont teach techniques of tuning and successfully running your engine.. A sim won't tell you to range check your aircraft.. A sim won't tell you to check your batteries as needed..

A good balance of the 2 tools(sim and instructor) is a good indicator of success.. a good instructor will know this as well. So if the instructor is shirking duties to a sim.. thats an indicator of an instructor prob.. if an instructor advises against a sim.. again another indicator of an instructor that's not taking full advantage of todays tools and technology.. a good balance is essential.. Just my 2 cents..

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RE: TO all new rc pilots-READ! - 12/9/2012 11:17 PM   
hugger-4641



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DGrant

A good sim, and sim time is a definate tool in the learning process.. it helps greatly to build the "muscle memory" needed.. much akin to a musician's muscle memory needed to sustain actions long enough to complete a song.

There are definately areas that the sim can't even come close though.... and a sim will never take the place of of an instructor.. SAFETY would be the first and foremost.. and a good instructor can verbalize the significance of that.. in a firm way if needed.. by good observation of his student would determine that... A sim will not tell where and how to place your hands on and around the plane for starting purposes.. A sim wont teach techniques of tuning and successfully running your engine.. A sim won't tell you to range check your aircraft.. A sim won't tell you to check your batteries as needed..

A good balance of the 2 tools(sim and instructor) is a good indicator of success.. a good instructor will know this as well. So if the instructor is shirking duties to a sim.. thats an indicator of an instructor prob.. if an instructor advises against a sim.. again another indicator of an instructor that's not taking full advantage of todays tools and technology.. a good balance is essential.. Just my 2 cents..



I'll ditto all of this. I have taught several people to fly who just didn't want to mess with a computer or a simulator. That's fine, but it took more of my time to help these folks on a buddy box than it usually does to help someone who uses a sim. I used a sim to help teach myself to do knife edges and other manuevers when I was first learning to fly RC. I recommend buying a sim to all my students. It is not a replacement for one-on-one instruction, but it is a good tool to help with muscle memory and orientation. After teaching them the basics and even after getting them to solo, most people I've taught still have trouble in four common areas:

1. Muscle memory (especially when flying back towards themselves, flying inverted, or learning new manuevers).
2. Recognizing the oreintation of the plane (especially if they let the plane get a little to far away).
3. Judging distance and speed.
4. Anticipating and reacting to effects of wind on the plane.

A simulator is an invaulable tool for helping with #1 and #4. It can also help with  #2 and 3#, but one-on-one instruction and real world experience do the most for helping them improve with 2,3, and 4. 



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