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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/8/2012 3:33 PM   
PatternPilot



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Status: online 		Silence from the candidates speaks volumes !

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/8/2012 10:00 PM   
grcourtney


 

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Status: offline 		I've run stand alone BPA events and have flown in combined events.. I must say a combined event takes away from both as there is not that much time in one weekend to fly 9 or 10 classes.

Great concept but not all that practical. Separation of events serves both.


Gary

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/8/2012 10:00 PM   
crash1ace


 

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Status: offline 		I have yet to see whats wrong with the 'turn around' ? from the moment I started to learn pattern, the turnaround just seemed so natural to me I guess. From what I've seen reguarding the classic pattern days, unless Im totally missing something here, you still had to turn the plane around to do the next maneuver anyways right?

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/8/2012 10:31 PM   
glowplugboy


 

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Status: offline 		Indeed. Perhaps a separate thread would evoke some responses...


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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/8/2012 10:50 PM   
PatternPilot



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Status: online 		Out of the 18 CPA events this year I think 5 or 6 where combo events and from reports all had a good time .

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/9/2012 9:05 PM   
jonlowe


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry I haven't been on here to post my 2 cents, but my position on the various topics discussed here is in my campaign statement that was posted on the NSRCA list and is on the NSRCA website.

Specifically regarding turnaround vs. non-turnaround, I don't see much difference in the difficulty for Sportsman. The biggest challenge for them is flying straight and level. The turnaround manuevers in Sportsman are typically what they would have to do anyway to get in position for the next pass. In fact, when I coach a new flyer, I have them start off flying straight and level passes with a half reverse cuban on one end and a half cuban at the other. Being able to fly straight and level is key in both types of pattern. The AMA Sportsman pattern also has a couple of box exits so they can "reset" if they need to. The patterns take virtually the same amount of time to fly, and the Sportsman gets more chance to score with turnaround. We commonly flew two sequences of the Sportsman sequence per flight a few years ago when glow airplanes were the norm, and never had a complaint that there was too much flying or too many manuevers. The AMA Sportsman sequences are also typically less complex for the center box maneuvers than what a Novice class has in non-turnaround, ie one roll vs three, one loop vs three, etc.

Our club has both an AMA pattern contest, and a BPA contest. While we got a lot of entries at first for BPA when it was a unique event, entries have been declining as the BPA/CPA contests have become more common. I have heard complaints at combined meets held in years past that the AMA flyers don't want to fly at the same time as the ballistic guys. While I enjoy occasionally flying a ballistic airplane, I'm not crazy about flying my 2 meter airplane at the same time one is in the air. A few combination events were tried in our district, but they have faded away, especially after one got zero BPA entries. We are seeing more entries at the beginner level in AMA pattern than BPA in our club.

Our part of the country also has a lot of SPA contests. From what I've seen, they aren't attracting any more new flyers than AMA, and they fly non-turnaround.

Ron Van Putte and the gang that fly at Eglin AFB have been very adept at recruiting new young flyers. That area has had a "critical mass" of pattern flyers for a number of years, and there are enough young flyers in that club that the pattern flyers can work with. Hand me down planes and equipment have been key to attracting several to try pattern. Once they try a pattern airplane they are typically hooked. The biggest challenge seems to be getting them through the competing attractions of girls and cars!

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/9/2012 9:59 PM   
PatternPilot



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s.

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/10/2012 4:22 PM   
Surefire



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Status: offline 		In terms of AMA and Classic pattern, my experience with combined AMA/Classic events has been positive so far. I was the CD at a combined event where we flew 6 rounds of AMA and 4 rounds of Classic. Everyone was satisfied with the amount of flying they got and had a great time. Most pilots who were flying Classic also flew AMA. I have also attended two other events here on the West Coast that were combined and they had similar positive results. (We had one Classic only event and it was lightly attended but everyone who was there had a blast!) I view the synergy between AMA and Classic as a very positive thing. That being said, if interest in Classic continues to grow out here on the West Coast, and numbers continue to increase, we will begin to run separate events. There is a point where you just don't have enough time in a 2-day contest to get everyone all of the flying they want!

Thanks,


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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/10/2012 4:41 PM   
danamania


 

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Status: online 		The opening posts were about the by-laws ballot, etc. We've seen a robust discussion of types of pattern contests. Candidates Jon & Jon have responded to some questions. What more about the by-laws ballot needs to be discussed for us to make informed decisions about how to vote the by-laws part of the ballot?

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/10/2012 8:36 PM   
NeilRivera


 

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Status: offline 		I have yet to receive my ballot and my address is up to date.... Just wondering when it will show up....

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/10/2012 9:01 PM   
jonlowe


 

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Status: offline 		Neil,
Mine was in a plain white envelope with no return address. Looked like junk mail. I'm wondering how many threw theirs out thinking it was junk.

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/10/2012 11:18 PM   
klhoard



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Yeah, too bad the NSRCA couldn't have done this election electronically.  That would have saved a bunch of hassle on everyone's part. . .
.




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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 12:54 AM   
PatternPilot



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Status: online 		Keith,

very easy to do.... remember all the votes CPA has had recently. ...Maybe the NSRCA administration can look into to this.... CPA uses surveymonkey.

s.

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 1:02 AM   
glowplugboy


 

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Status: offline 		The NSRCA National Membership Survey was done on line too.


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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 1:23 AM   
jonlowe


 

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Status: offline 		The NSRCA bylaws say the ballots have to be mailed.

Jon

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 1:40 AM   
klhoard



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Gentlemen,

   I give you the power and glory of electronic document dissemenation . . .

.
quote:

ORIGINAL: jonlowe

Neil,
Mine was in a plain white envelope with no return address. Looked like junk mail. I'm wondering how many threw theirs out thinking it was junk.



Attachments
Click to see the file in new window.Attachment.pdf Click to see the file in new window.Attachment.pdf



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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 1:41 AM   
woodie



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quote:

ORIGINAL: danamania

The opening posts were about the by-laws ballot, etc. We've seen a robust discussion of types of pattern contests. Candidates Jon & Jon have responded to some questions. What more about the by-laws ballot needs to be discussed for us to make informed decisions about how to vote the by-laws part of the ballot?


Dana, I am not trying to sound snide here, but I would recommend you review the current bylaws and the proposed changes and decide how 'you' want to vote. Most of the changes are pretty self explanatory and easy to see the impact (or lack there of) of proposed changes. It's your vote, take advantage of it.

Woodie

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 1:49 AM   
PatternPilot



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Status: online 		You da man Keith....

On a serious question now... On the mail change, what other mail do we get other than dues? I'm seeing a lag in Business type mail going to Treasure and now having to be forwarded via snail mail or electronic... I know other groups I have been in the secretary receives ALL mail as he or she is function on the business side.

also

*** No disrespect to Rev. Mathis but why are we not using a 3rd party company to make sure the mail looks appropriate and then returned to them for tabulation.

*** With all the technology why are we not having a live Q&A session with the candidates.. People are asking questions and we get one person saying there resume is on the NSRCA site. Pretty cold ! It would be nice to get a current view either real time or at least answer the questions posed to you.

okay back to glass work..



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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 2:04 AM   
klhoard



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Yeah, why don't the candidates have three scheduled debates?  We could do them on Skype and have Chip Hyde moderate . .
.



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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 2:12 AM   
glowplugboy


 

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Status: offline 		Maybe we should start another thread: "Questions for the Candidates". Maybe then they will tell us more about their vision for the organization.


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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 2:18 AM   
PatternPilot



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Status: online 		Glowplugboy,

sounds like you volunteered to start the thread..

s.

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 2:19 AM   
glowplugboy


 

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 2:32 AM   
jonlowe


 

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Status: offline 		With all due respect, the technology is part of the communication problem. Information from NSRCA is so scattered now between the list, the website, Facebook, the K-Factor, here, etc., no one knows where to get info. Info is posted one place, like the candidate's resumes, and people don't want to go there to see them. I posted my thoughts on the bylaw changes here and on the list, and so did Jon Carter. I initiated it because I wanted to reach as large as population of members as I could in the very short window available, even though this is in not an "official NSRCA" communication method.

The thing we have to remember is that Web Access is not a membership requirement of the NSRCA. No matter what we do electronically, and we have to be able to serve all segments of the membership.

I started this thread to get the info out because the board had never published the proposed changes to the bylaws with any rationale for the members to review, and has not done so to date. Reviewing the board minutes, I can't even find out who wrote them. All I know is that the changes were being implemented without a vote as required, but I and others called them on it. In addition, the nominating committee for officer positions had not been established per the bylaws, and once that was pointed out and nominations were properly opened up, and I was asked to run for President, and I accepted the nomination.

I have stated that I would strive to make the actions of the NSRCA board as transparent and open as possible. It is the members organization, and it needs to be run as such.

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 2:52 AM   
TonyF


 

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Status: offline 		I agree with Jon Lowe in his statement above completely. I voted no on all the Bylaws changes as I feel they have not been properly presented to the membership with sufficient time for discussion. Time to punt and do it right, in my opinion.

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RE: NSRCA Proposed Bylaw Changes - 12/11/2012 3:07 AM   
klhoard



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jonlowe
. . .<snip>. . . Web Access is not a membership requirement of the NSRCA. No matter what we do electronically, and we have to be able to serve all segments of the membership. . . .<snip>. . .

.
So, as President of the NSRCA would you would kick out all members that don't have internet access?
.




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