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Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 2:20 PM

ATVAlliance

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Well.....I crashed the 500 again this past Sunday (makes the 2nd crash of this one) and cant for the life of me figure out what went wrong. I have a suspicion but cant be sure, so I thought I would detail it here and see what everyone else thinks.

Put her up and flew the circuit. Im still not flying any 3D so my flying consists of going around the circuit in FFF and doing 8's and stall turns. Havent ever inverted this heli nor rolled, looped it...so all of its flying has been upright and tame so to speak. This flight was no different.

I run a 5s 4000Mah 30c pack and I have my timer set for 6.5 minutes (can actually get over 8 minutes of flying and still bring the battery back with room to spare given this pinion/motor combo). Anyway...I flew a few laps, lets say 20. Everything seemed fine. The heli flew just like it always has, nice and crisp feel on the sticks but not twitchy...just nice and smooth like a 500 should be...far as I know (again, I still consider myself a n00b).

I bring it in for landing just as my timer starts beeping. When I get it down I like to go back to Normal mode and make a few low back and forth passes across the field just to cool down. I done this as usual, but noticed that the controls felt really "spongy"...especially elevator. I brought it out in front of my to try a stable hover and it still felt a little spongy or squirly. Basically it required, or seemed to require more stick input. Like someone had put it in low rates (thing is I dont have Hi/Lo rates programmed). Again, this was on elevator to my best recollection.

I thought I would take it back up and go around the circuit so I could see if it felt the same in flight. I mean I just came down from a bunch of laps in the circuit and the heli felt just fine. So I make another lap and it seemed to feel ok. So, I bring it back in to land as now I have been up a minute past my timer (remember I set my timer a couple minutes lower than I really need to on my power setup). Anyway...I get it back in front of me and it still feels spongy in a hover...then all of a sudden it takes off away from me...like I had put "down" stick input, so automatically my thumb gives positive collective or else I would smash into an electric fence surrounding our runway (we have cows on our field over the winter...another story). It clears the fence but still has "down" input although Im pulling "up". It looks as if I were trying to do a Rainbow...or the start of one. I cant get it to level out and it crashes inverted on the other side of the fence! All I could do is hit throttle hold before impact.

I thought I demolished it! To my surprise the damage wasnt too bad. Broke the main rotor blades, bent the boom up in an "S" like shape...never done this before! lol, and destroyed my Fusuno canopy. Oh..it impacted so hard it sheered off all 3 cyclic horns wher the balls connect....but didnt strip any of the servos, go figure! Oh and my 5cell looked more banana shaped afterwards too! Other than that...no other damage...not even a bent shaft!

What I think happened is the elevator servo, for whatever reason just went awry. Ive powered it back up and tested the servos and none are stripped...but the elevator servo will "let go" if I put some pressure on the horn when power is on it. It will move 1/4 of its travel before it trys to recenter itself. The other 2 cyclic servos dont act this way with power applied to them...only the elevator. I know that the elevator servo wasnt like this when I put them in. I tested all 3 cyclics thoroughly before using them. I cant remember right off the model number but they were the higher dollar turnigy ones that a lot of people are using for cyclic on 500 size helis. And though not expensive, they werent cheap el cheapo ones as they were 25 bucks or so each. They were over spec'd for the application for sure.

At first, I thought it could have been a brown out on my RX...but after recreating the events in my mind...I dont think so as the tail held perfectly when it went "out of control". I mean it really looked like I was attempting a rainbow manuver....although Ive never attempted one and if I did it would be with one of my smaller helis first. But from the generaly onlooker...this is what it looked like. I mean a few of the guys said..."I thought you were going to pull it off"...till I explained that a trick wasnt what I was attemping. I was just coming in to land when the elevator let go or something!

So...I think I have ruled it to be a defective servo on the elevator...but I still cant for sure say that I did not have a brown out situation (I was so shocked by the crash that I totally forgot to look for the "blinking rx light" when I went to retrieve the heli). I just dont know that when a brownout situation happens...does the tail still hold straight? I would think not but dont know for sure, why Im here talking about it in the first place. I mean the tail held solid all the way to inverted, then it hit the ground.

In the end, Im very lucky that no one was hurt...because if it had came backwards...it would have went straight into the pits and at least crashed into someones vehicle at the very least. Also, I am lucky that it didnt break more parts than it did. I have had lighter crashes on smaller helis that broke a heck of a lot more parts. So, I would guess the repair damage is well under 150 bucks...unless my battery is toast. I think the battery is okay though as I straightened it (it was only curved along its length and not "smashed" or crumpled from the end). I will charge it and see but a quick reading showed all 5 cells within .05 charge of one another...so I think I may have dodged a bullet with the battery...otherwise add another 50 bucks to the crash cost.

Any replies are welcomed.

Thanks for reading.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 4:03 PM

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First rule of RC heli flying: If something feels odd LAND INMETIATELY! I bet you will never forget that one from now on. Nothing fixes itself in flight. It just gets worse.

If the helicopter is sound, no loose parts, no evidence of parts broken in flight, ect. then I'd say you found the item responsible for your crash. A cyclic servo giving out is a good indicator of a failure in the control system. I'm no expert in electronics, but I would start looking at your servo voltage. Other places to look would be excessive vibration transferred to the servo, and of course servo quality. I've never been a fan of Turnigy so my opinion will definitely be biased.

I bet people will have more opinions about this soon.

Rafael

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 6:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafael23cc

First rule of RC heli flying: If something feels odd LAND INMETIATELY! I bet you will never forget that one from now on. Nothing fixes itself in flight. It just gets worse.

If the helicopter is sound, no loose parts, no evidence of parts broken in flight, ect. then I'd say you found the item responsible for your crash. A cyclic servo giving out is a good indicator of a failure in the control system. I'm no expert in electronics, but I would start looking at your servo voltage. Other places to look would be excessive vibration transferred to the servo, and of course servo quality. I've never been a fan of Turnigy so my opinion will definitely be biased.

I bet people will have more opinions about this soon.

Rafael

Yeah, I realize that rule...even more so now. The only reason I didnt land immediately is because I thought somehow wind could have been a factor. I only notice wind when hovering and fly all of my helis in wind and really never seen any ill effects while in FFF. So, being somewhat new to flying helis still, and a present wind condition at the field that day...I just thought it was the wind. Thats why I took it back up again. BUT I do agree, I will not ever do that again. Lesson learned!

Ive had pretty good luck with the higher end Turnigy stuff. Granted, its not the best and I know this...but I was wanting to keep this 500 as much a budget machine as possible. They are metal gear servos and digital. I am powering them with an ALIGN BEC (dont recall the model but its the one with the led meter to show battery charge state). The BEC is powered by an ALIGN 2S battery (dont recall the Mah but I think its a 1300 if memory serves correct). I topped the BEC battery off before flight even though i tested it at 4.05 VPC prior. So, the BEC was getting full power. I also tested it after the crash and it was still around 4.10 VPC...PLENTY of battery, IMO.

The confusing part for me is...all evidence points to the elevator cyclic servo. But I cant say for sure because I dont test my servos before every flight. maybe I should now??? Well, dont get me wrong...I do test movement of all controls before flying anything, plane or heli...its just i dont test them for torque.

I'll be happy to hear anyone chime in with any other insight that could help me learn from this crash. I guess what made me second guess is the possibility of a BEC/battery issue. But the puzzling thing is that when it took off forward...and started its forward roll to inverted, the tail held solid. I mean it really looked like a very slow smooth rainbow manuver, pretty as you please. Its just no matter how much "up" I put into the elevator control...it kept rolling forward till it impacted the ground slightly nose first inverted.

Thanks and keep the replies coming.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 6:23 PM

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quote:

the elevator servo will "let go" if I put some pressure on the horn when power is on it.

I would say right there is your answer, or at least a good place to start. I'd replace the servo's and try it again.

There is a guy on Runryder selling 3 x DS510's for $85.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 6:37 PM

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First, I am pretty sure, from what you said, that it is the fore/aft cyclic (elevator) servo.

I have to agree with Rafael23cc about using budget gear...specially on helis over 450 size. I have tested many servos over the years, and found that on budget servos, the manufacturers specs mean nothing. I have had budget, metal gear digital servos, that had great specs with regard to speed and torque, yet under test, they did not even have the speed and the torque of basic servos from Futaba, JR or Airtronics. And from a reliability point of view, the percentage of failure rate on many were over 25%!! IMHO, no servo, put into a heli, should have a failure rate over 1%.

What many do not realize, is that the servo may be digital and have metal gears, but there are many classes of standard electric motors one can install into them. For example, a seller can buy a specific servo, from an Chinese manufacture, with the same specs, at three or four different prices. The only difference may be the quality of the motor used. I can only say, that I would not want the servo in any of my helis unless it had the top motor (which usually is one made in Japan). Of course that may well increase the price of the motor by 300%!!

It is the same with some other electronic components in the servo - e.g pots. It is these items, in the servo, that will be the most important when it comes to reliability and long term performance.

I have also seen some of these low cost servos, to have so much friction in their metal gears, as to generate far too much resistance to movement then they should. This in turn, will cause the servo to draw a lot more amps during operation then it should. This will bring on premature failure of the motor.

I could go on and on, but I think this will give you a good idea.

What can cause premature failure in ANY servo is if their is any inappropriate binding in the control system. If you did/do not have any then I would bet it is the servo.

A question you must ask yourself, would the cost of repairing the two crashes have allowed you to spend a lot more on your servos? I bet it would have.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 7:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goggles

quote:

the elevator servo will "let go" if I put some pressure on the horn when power is on it.

I would say right there is your answer, or at least a good place to start. I'd replace the servo's and try it again.

There is a guy on Runryder selling 3 x DS510's for $85.

Will the 510's fit a 500 frame? I thought those were what come in 550's and 600's...which is a tad larger servo? maybe Im remembering wrong. I'll have to check the site and see if he still has them, if they will work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rotor09

First, I am pretty sure, from what you said, that it is the fore/aft cyclic (elevator) servo.

I have to agree with Rafael23cc about using budget gear...specially on helis over 450 size. I have tested many servos over the years, and found that on budget servos, the manufacturers specs mean nothing. I have had budget, metal gear digital servos, that had great specs with regard to speed and torque, yet under test, they did not even have the speed and the torque of basic servos from Futaba, JR or Airtronics. And from a reliability point of view, the percentage of failure rate on many were over 25%!! IMHO, no servo, put into a heli, should have a failure rate over 1%.

What many do not realize, is that the servo may be digital and have metal gears, but there are many classes of standard electric motors one can install into them. For example, a seller can buy a specific servo, from an Chinese manufacture, with the same specs, at three or four different prices. The only difference may be the quality of the motor used. I can only say, that I would not want the servo in any of my helis unless it had the top motor (which usually is one made in Japan). Of course that may well increase the price of the motor by 300%!!

It is the same with some other electronic components in the servo - e.g pots. It is these items, in the servo, that will be the most important when it comes to reliability and long term performance.

I have also seen some of these low cost servos, to have so much friction in their metal gears, as to generate far too much resistance to movement then they should. This in turn, will cause the servo to draw a lot more amps during operation then it should. This will bring on premature failure of the motor.

I could go on and on, but I think this will give you a good idea.

What can cause premature failure in ANY servo is if their is any inappropriate binding in the control system. If you did/do not have any then I would bet it is the servo.

A question you must ask yourself, would the cost of repairing the two crashes have allowed you to spend a lot more on your servos? I bet it would have.

I do understand where you are coming from with your advice. And believe me, I usually do try and buy the absolute best that I can afford at the time. The first crash I know was a result of a bad cyclic servo. It wasnt a Turnigy though...was actually one of the cheap servos that comes in the Copter X value electronics package I bought when I first built this heli. After that crash I wanted to upgrade somewhat to a better servo and after much research on what others had used with good success, I found these Turnigy servos. When I get home tonight I will update the thread with exactly what model they are. But I didnt just go looking at HK and found the first servo that I found that spec'd out. I bought soley on the fact that I had read a lot of comments online across different sites that had used these as cyclics. I guess I just got one of the "bad ones". I havent had more than a dozen or so flights on these servos since the rebuild of the crash near the end of last season.

I dont have any binding on this heli, its actually one of my more smoother setups....next to my raptor 50. I also have a complete Align 500 FB head on this one as when I was rebuilding it I found a great deal on a used head over at Heli Freak from someone going FBL. So, rather than rebuilding the EXI head...I went for the swap.

You are right though...these 2 crashes would have paid for some good brand name servos. It really sucks to crash because of equipment failure. I havent crashed the 500 yet because of dumb thumbs. Actually I have only dumb thumbed in my 450 a couple of times and my mCPX more times that I can count. When I fly my 500 and R50 I am still very conservative.

Thanks for the input. I will update the thread tonight if I can with the exact model numbers of the servo in question.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 7:25 PM

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n/m on the 510 question. I was thinking about the 610's for 550's and 600's.

I just checked the classified section on runryder. I only see 3 610s for sale. Can you post me a link?

Thanks

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 8:50 PM

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Here ya go ATV...good to know I can return some of the help you have given me in the past....

http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t720032p1/

K

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 9:15 PM

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ORIGINAL: KRASHKOPTER

Here ya go ATV...good to know I can return some of the help you have given me in the past....

http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t720032p1/

K

Thanks for the link! I dont know why I cant find it on my end. Maybe its because I dont have an account on RR? I need to set one up and PM the guy.

Again, thanks for the link!

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 9:21 PM

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Ok...just registered. Looks like they have that site on "moderator approval" before I can post or PM. Hope the mod approves me before these are sold.

The only things I didnt have in my spare parts were servos, so if I had these the heli would be flying again in no time. Well, maybe not that fast. I did just recieve in the mail yesterday my new 550. Too many toys, not enough time or money! LOL

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/4/2012 11:11 PM

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Hmmm......maybe I should have bought them for my 500 instead.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/5/2012 4:17 AM

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I was approved...so I PM'd the guy. Thanks for the link

Also, the servos are the Turnigy 930mg, or what Tower Pro used to have as their 930MG from my best accounts.

Im going to go with these 510s if the guy still has them I think.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/5/2012 6:14 PM

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Ahhhh...... Turnigy 930mg, those are the ones I have on mine and I really dislike them but I don't fly my 500 enough to bother replacing them.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/5/2012 6:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goggles

Ahhhh...... Turnigy 930mg, those are the ones I have on mine and I really dislike them but I don't fly my 500 enough to bother replacing them.

Yeah...I did do some research before buying them and found a lot of people use these for "budget servos" for 500 size helis. And I think that it must be a quality control issue, because the other 2 servos are still fine. None of them stripped any gears even in such a hard crash, but the horns sheared off at the balls...I think I like that since its a lot easier to install a new horn than rebuild a servo.

I dont know much about servos other than they work or they dont. This servo that gave up on me didnt strip a gear...even after the hard crash, the suspected faulty servo still doesnt have a stripped gear...it just wont stay centered if you apply pressure to the horn. It will move up or down about a 1/4" before whatever inside tells it to return to center. So, in my minds eye...I can see a servo with an issue such as that, cause the symptom that I witnessed that eventually caused the loss of elevator control.

I bought the 510s from the guy on RR. hes just in North Carolina so I should have them by Saturday or Monday as he said he would ship them out to me today.

Im anxious to get this helicopter back in the air as it really is my most fun heli to fly. It was the first one I flew Sunday and crashed on the first battery...so the rest of the day I had to fly my 250 and 450...which I like, but just not as much fun to fly as the 500 is.

Im anxious to get the 550 I just got in finished, but now with my woes of the Turnigy servos go...Im thinking I may not use the Turnigys I bought for the 550. They are even higher spec'd Titanium Gear corless servos. They are the 1258TG's which some say are a rebranded SAVOX servo...which again some claim are the ones that makes the servos for Align anyway.

I know this is a thread about my 500 crash...but doesn anyone have any experience with the Turnigy 1258TGs? They are the nicest budget servos I have ever bought. They even came in nice tins...not plastic bag packaging on these and were vacumn sealed around the tin (look like the tins that throat losenges used to come in). Also, they come with the same looking horns for helis that the 610's come with, the thich horn with two holes in them.

Anyway...thanks for everyones input and the link to the 510's. I hope to at least put away the problem with mechanics/electronics that has caused me my 2 crashes on this 500. But, at least it wasnt because of my flying skills that did it in. lol just trying to look at the positives.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/5/2012 7:08 PM

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Let us know how well the 1258's work for you.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/5/2012 7:17 PM

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ORIGINAL: Goggles

Let us know how well the 1258's work for you.

I will, unless I decide to look for a decent priced set of used DS610's. Im just really gunshy right now with using the Turnigy servos. Id like to see someone chime in on them that has used them before, but Ive scoured the net and I guess these are still kind of new as there is not a lot out there on them yet. I have found a couple of people that say that they are good ones...but I never take only a couple accounts of others as gospel. I like to at least find 10 or more people that claim that they had good/great success with a budget item.

While these are super cheap per say, at 32 dollars each..they are more than half the price of new 610's. And they really do 'LOOK" like a quality servo....with aluminum main casing and all and a beefy cyclic horn for heli applications. They say that they are for .50-.90 size helis. Im assuming since it referenced .50-.90 size they are talking about nitro powered...which could be a good thing since nitro/gas helis should be more prone to vibes than electric.

I think I will do some more in depth testing of these before I put a 550 size bird in the air with them. Then again I may end up with a deal on some 610's and just put these in the parts bin for a future cheap 30cc-50cc future gasser airplane build.

I'll be sure to let you know either way it goes though.

here is a link to the servos if you havent already looked at them...

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=30872

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/5/2012 9:52 PM

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I have 610's on my 700 and on the 600 I use Hyperion HP-DS20X-SMD for cyclic and HP-DS20X-GCD for tail and same on the 500 tail. So far they are fast and have no problems with them.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/5/2012 10:01 PM

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I think Align 610 on a 500 would be overkill. I use them on my 90sized nitros and the response is crisper than the older analog Hitecs I had in there. Would the 610 fit without having to grind down the frames?

Rafael

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/5/2012 10:48 PM

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ORIGINAL: Rafael23cc

I think Align 610 on a 500 would be overkill. I use them on my 90sized nitros and the response is crisper than the older analog Hitecs I had in there. Would the 610 fit without having to grind down the frames?

Rafael

I think he was talking about putting the DS610's on his new 550 he just built

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/6/2012 1:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafael23cc

I think Align 610 on a 500 would be overkill. I use them on my 90sized nitros and the response is crisper than the older analog Hitecs I had in there. Would the 610 fit without having to grind down the frames?

Rafael

I think he was talking about putting the DS610's on his new 550 he just built

Yes...thats exactly what I was talking about. I already bought the used 510s over on runryder for the 500. So, hopefully I wont have to worry about that one.

I only brought up the 550 in this thread because I bought the T1258TG's for it. "Supposedly" they are made by SAVOX which is "supposedly" the same company that makes Align's servos.

If this whole 500 servo fiasco had happened a couple weeks earlier I can guarantee you I would have just bought 610s. However, I already placed the order for the parts for the 550 before the 500 incident. So, I have these and hate not to use them...but then again...hate to have another servo related crash.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/6/2012 3:03 PM

Rafael23cc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossfade
I think he was talking about putting the DS610's on his new 550 he just built

Sorry I missed the 550 part. Still overkill, but to each his own. Nothing says that you have to do it a certain way.

See you guys around.

Rafael

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/6/2012 3:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafael23cc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossfade
I think he was talking about putting the DS610's on his new 550 he just built

Sorry I missed the 550 part. Still overkill, but to each his own. Nothing says that you have to do it a certain way.

See you guys around.

Rafael

So are you saying I could use 510's on the 550 too? I dont think they will work as the 510 servo is physically smaller than the 610. The 550 frames are cut out for the physical size of a 610 servo. A 510 would not work unless you modded the frame somehow...else the servo mounting holes in the frame wont line up with the servo mount tabs/holes.

Maybe you mean that there is a better servo than the turnigy 1258TG's that I have (look very similar if not identical to the SAVOX 1258) which are the same physical size as the DS610.

And yeah...I know there is no "certain way" that I have to do it. Its just Im a little gunshy here since crashing the 500 with what had been suggested a great budget 500 servo in the 930MG. Maybe it was just one of those deals that I ended up getting a crappy one and I could replace it with another 930 and have no other issues. I know one guy I recently corresponded with runs the 930MGs on his cyclics and has nearly 150 flights on them with no issues. I cant say whether he pushes his as hard as I do mine in FFF. I mean I dont think I could make the 500 go any faster downwind unless I came out of an extreme dive which I dont do. Otherwise, I put it in the wind with a lot of "bank and yank" turns. I definitely dont "putt putt" around the circuit with it. So maybe the 930's just wont hold up to that kind of flying??? I dunno?

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/7/2012 5:23 PM

rotor09

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.........I only brought up the 550 in this thread because I bought the T1258TG's for it. ''Supposedly'' they are made by SAVOX which is ''supposedly'' the same company that makes Align's servos.........

Many offshore companies make servos for many brands, be it for Savox or others. Just because they make a servo for Savox or Align, that may use a specific quality of motor and electronic components, that does not mean that the same sized servo, with similar specs, that they make for another company, will not have a cheaper and less dependable motor and/or uses cheaper and less dependable electrical components, in the servo they make for another brand.

Another issue in this type of off shore manufacturing, if the manufacturer runs off 1000 servos and 250 do not pass the quality control standards of the contracted brand, what do you think they do with the 250 rejects? They simply sell them at a bargain basement price to a low cost seller under a different brand name. This is another reason why the low cost brand may have such a high failure rate.

From the outside, both servos will look much alike, but the insides may be a lot different.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/7/2012 8:27 PM

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ORIGINAL: rotor09

quote:

.........I only brought up the 550 in this thread because I bought the T1258TG's for it. ''Supposedly'' they are made by SAVOX which is ''supposedly'' the same company that makes Align's servos.........

Many offshore companies make servos for many brands, be it for Savox or others. Just because they make a servo for Savox or Align, that may use a specific quality of motor and electronic components, that does not mean that the same sized servo, with similar specs, that they make for another company, will not have a cheaper and less dependable motor and/or uses cheaper and less dependable electrical components, in the servo they make for another brand.

Another issue in this type of off shore manufacturing, if the manufacturer runs off 1000 servos and 250 do not pass the quality control standards of the contracted brand, what do you think they do with the 250 rejects? They simply sell them at a bargain basement price to a low cost seller under a different brand name. This is another reason why the low cost brand may have such a high failure rate.

From the outside, both servos will look much alike, but the insides may be a lot different.

That makes a lot of sense.

Slowly, my whole fleet of helis will be done away with "bargain/budget" servos. The 510's should be waiting for me when I get home so that will take care of the 500. The rest are as follows...

250 - has align servos
450 - HiTec servos
500 - align servos
550 - ??? (bought the 1258TG's but am reconsidering now)
R50 - JR servos

So, I guess I will just test the heck of the 1258's to see if they will be up to the task or not. If not, I'll just go with a set of 610's for the 550 and consider myself done. I know that even brand name servos can fail...but I think that after 2 servo related crashes on my 500...its just not worth the higher probability of failure costing more in the long run from crash cost.

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RE: Trying to make sense of it... - 12/7/2012 9:10 PM

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ORIGINAL: ATVAlliance

So are you saying I could use 510's on the 550 too? I dont think they will work as the 510 servo is physically smaller than the 610. The 550 frames are cut out for the physical size of a 610 servo. A 510 would not work unless you modded the frame somehow...else the servo mounting holes in the frame wont line up with the servo mount tabs/holes.

No, what I meant is that you could shop around amongst the better brands and look for suitable servos that will be "full sized" servos. Here is what I do: I typically use servos of around 60 to 90 oz of torque for my 50 sized machines and 90 to 100+ oz for my 90 sized machines. Also take into consideration speed. I try to keep my servos as close to 0.1 sec as possible. If I can get them below 0.1 is gravy.

I use tools like this one: http://www.servodatabase.com/ to compare servos. Look up the Align 610. They are rated at 166oz at 6v Way overkill for a little 550. that is why i use them on my 90s. Look for a servo with a lower torque rating (closer to maybe 50 to 80) and similar speed. It will definitely be cheaper than the Align 610.

That is all I meant.

Rafael

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