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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/5/2013 6:52 PM   
Vettster


 

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From: BeetonOntario, CANADA
Status: offline 		So its been 3 weeks since I placed the order for the new wings and tail from eurekaaircraft.com/foamwings/wing-f.htm.

Just sent him an email asking whats up? I know it was the holiday season and all but these items where in stock! All he had to do is mail them out

Going to get to work today on glueing some sheets together in advance.


Update: Don replied back to me with..Should be cutting them next week sometime... You will receive an email from the PO when they are shipped.

I thought these were in stock

< Message edited by Vettster -- 1/5/2013 9:15 PM >

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/5/2013 9:22 PM   
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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/6/2013 1:42 AM   
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Status: online 		Trev:

He will ship them if they are in stock. However, even though mine were in stock, it took about 2 weeks as Rapptor says. Hang in there. He will ship them.

Ed

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/8/2013 2:06 AM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		I got the nose gear in and the servo connected. The nose gear area has been glassed.

The rear Elevator mounts have been reinforced with hardwood top and bottom and hysoled in.

I was at Lowes today picking up some small cotter pins and to my amazement.. they actually had some aluminum bar stock in and its the exact size I needed for the wing spars.

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/8/2013 2:49 AM   
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Looks good. I too have used the alum flat stock from Lowe's. It is just the right size to fit into the "C" channel that Yellow and Iron Bay use on their plug in wings. I also use the same size stock (3/4"x1/8") for extenders for my Robart incidence meters. Keep plugging away and you will be finished soon.

Ed

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/8/2013 9:48 PM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Ed, but I doubt ill be finished soon As you can tell.. Im not exactly the fastest builder..lol

Ive been thinking a lot about how to install the wing spars so that there both square and true since the wing plugs dont have any slots.

Best I can come up with so far is to tape the wings to the fuse with everything perfectly lined up and then use a heated knife to make the slots. I dont really know.. Any suggestions would be very welcome.

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/8/2013 10:49 PM   
edwarda10pilot


 

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My thougths would be to try to clamp the spars to the bulkhead or whatever they are going to glue to (I think you said it would be a one piece plane). Then hold he wing core below the spars and up against the wing root at the fuse. Mark the spar location and angle (the line the spar draws from root to tip). Then cut the cores using a band saw (leave the cores in the shucks to ensure the spar cut is vertical). Obviously, all of this is done BEFORE you sheet the wings. Next, I made up a "spar box" that is 1/8" lite ply with the alum spar captured between the lite ply above and below. I then fabricated the "spar box" and after dry, I inserted the aluminum spar in the "box"with epoxy. One of the things not in the photo is that I drilled a number of holes in the aluminum to allow the spoxy to capture the aluminum n the box. Once this was all dry, I then set the fuse in a cradle, leveled the fuse. Once level, I ballasted the fuse with some lead shot bags so that it would not move. I then inserted the spars into the aluminum brackets that I previously installed in the fuse bulkhead (remember my plane has removable wings). Once all of this was done I mixed some epoxy and glued the spars into the wing. I have attached some photos to try to help explain my process.

One of the things I would do with the F-16 is that once the fuse is ballasted in the cradle, I would use an incidence meter to check the incidence angles of the strakes at the wing roots. On my f-16 these two strakes were at a slightly different incidence relative to one another (i.e. the strake on one side was a slightly different incidence than the strake on the other side). I had heard thru the grapevine (many years ago) that the plug for the mold was slightly off and this caused the difference in incidence.

Ed

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/9/2013 2:38 AM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Ed. Thats a big help. It actually looks pretty simple the way you have explained it. Im still sitting on the fence weather or not to make the wings removable, but the way you did it seems so simple..why not?

Ed whats the white material in the second photo? Is that foam too or is it some other material.

How are the wings held in place. I mean when you insert the wing at the field..what holds the spars in the C channel and locks them. I just have the C channel that is mounted to the main former and the spar.

BTW the Mig seems to be coming along nicely!

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/9/2013 3:01 AM   
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Iron Bay and Yellow Aircraft sell the removable wing kit. It is an aluminum "C" channel into which the flat aluminum spar fits. The "C" channel is bolted to a bulkhead with some 4-40 flat head screws. I have seen these break on old Byron's F-16 when they were making the speed runs back in the 1990's so I changed the bolts to 6-32 flat head bolts and the bulkhead has been changed to a 3/16" thick former (the stock Bryons planes had 1/16 or 3/32 ply bulkheads and 4-40 screws and this is what failed). The aluminum "blade" spars slide into the "C" channel and are captured with an 8-32 socket head cap screw. Take a look at the attached photos. In the photos you will see two drilled and tapped holes (one is inside the fuse and one is outside the fuse) in the "C" channel. These are the holes into which the socket head cap screws are inserted and that capture the blade spar. Hope this helps.

Ed

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/12/2013 4:06 AM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Ed.


Well parts have started to show up. Got my k100G today

The wheels showed up too, so I was able to dry fit the mounts for the gear. Going to laminate some G10 or CF plate to them to stiffen em up.

Tomorrow Ill glass in the main doors.

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/14/2013 2:15 AM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		I decided not to make another hatch out of the Canopy. I took the lazy man way and am screwing it down with micro countersink screws.

The Canopy's from the pictures Ive seen are just to bulbus. I cut beyond the cut line and extra 1" This allowed the canopy to fit better to the fues and to give a better profile. Being smaller it also seems to be much less prone to being pushed in by the on coming wind.

The gear door area came out Great! Cured perfectly and will just need a gental sanding. I wait 3 days before cutting in to it so that its fully cured.

Next up will be the turbine mount, since I Still Dont Have Any WINGS!!!!!![>:]

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/14/2013 2:02 PM   
edwarda10pilot


 

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Project is looking really good. Gear door area looks nice. Can you provide a side view of he fuse with the canopy on so we can see the revised profile? Do not get discouraged about the wings. Might send Don an e-mail asking for the status. Keep up the work and it will be finished in short order.

Ed


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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/14/2013 4:21 PM   
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Status: offline 		FYI - from my own research into blade spars -

That aluminum bar stock from Lowes is fairly soft in the overall scheme of things - not sure what alloy but is most decidely not tempered.

Just keep an eye on them as I've heard of the blades bending. Any bend and I'd replace with something like 6061 or 7075 with T-6 temper.

I like the conversion -

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/14/2013 9:13 PM   
edwarda10pilot


 

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Status: online 		Chuck:

Good point. I failed to mention that I have found 6061-T6 aluminum at a local metal supply house (not Lowes or Home Depot but rather a business that provides aluminum and stainelss to machine shops, etc).

Trevor, perhaps you can find a metal supply business in your area that can provide suitable strength aluminum in the size you need.

Ed

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/14/2013 11:21 PM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the heads up Chuck

Ed its funny you should ask for a side profile. Its one of those strange camera things.. Looking at in person it looks much more sleek. But when I take a picture of it..it suddenly looks Huge again, so I didnt bother to post the pic. But I will now that you have requested it. later on tonight

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 1/28/2013 2:11 AM   
Vettster


 

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The wings finally showed up. Only 7 weeks to get here They didnt match up to the fues to well either. Slightly to large or you could say a perfect fit if you dont skin them and glass them. So I had to cut off 5mm of the root to make them work.

Got busy on the doors today. And am working on the tricky part of getting the gear formers lined up and working together.

Would really! love to be able to use a one peice spar...though it cuts across the middle of the turbine. Not sure how bad that would effect its performance as it can draw air from many other places.

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 5/15/2013 12:10 AM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Allllrighty then. Ive finally found some time to get back to the F-16.

From the photos you can see that I got the gear in. Remember Im using 3.5" main wheels and a trailing link nose gear for Sod Field purposes. I had to canter the retracts inward for them to work, but they fit perfectly. Not much room for fuel though... Im for sure going to be using the wing tanks as real fuel tanks. The rear hatch is finished, though I be changing out the screws for shorter ones later on.
You can see in the side view of the canopy how it sits much lower and not so bulbuse now that I cut at least 1 1/2" from the front. It now sits lower and conforms to the fuse much better.

Working on the gear door hinges now.

Happy flying

Trevor

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 5/15/2013 1:09 AM   
dw_crash


 

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Great job so far. Looking real good.

I'd check the rules......not sure if tanks in the wings is allowed. Would they not have to be bladder type? I think MAAC only allows hard tanks. Or do you mean fixed, permanent, drop tanks on each wing. That could a lot of load under Gs.

DW_Crash

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 5/15/2013 2:11 AM   
edwarda10pilot


 

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Plane looks nice. With regards to the one piece spar perhaps you might try what was done on the SR-71 and the B-57. As you know they needed a carry thru structure for the wing spar outboard of the engines. They made a "ring" thru which the engines passed. The inboard and out board parts of the ring were the spars to which the wings were attached. Find a sheet/piece of 1/8" 6061-T6 or similar (don't use T-0 as it is VERRRY soft). From this sheet cut a former similar to the one you cut that fits into the fuse just aft of the original cheater hole (this is the bulkhead that the plug in wings and the IC DF unit attach to). Then simply extend the outboard edges of the former (metal) out of the fuse to act as blade spars onto which you slide the wings. To do this and get it into the fuse you will have to make the metal "former" in two pieces, slide them into the fuse and then bolt them to the plywood bulkhead. I have attached two photos. The first photo is of the Byron F-16 I did for my friend. I made the fan mount former out of ply but you could make something similar out of 1/8" or similar aluminum. The second and third photos are of a similar design I did for my Mig 15. I extended the ply former outside of the fuse to act as a mounting point for the wings. Make your metal former similar to these two photos and then put your blade spar wing receptacle in the wing. To attach the wings to the fuse simply install one or two small ply tabs into the bottom of the fuse (or wing) and when the wing slides on, screw a bolt thru the tab and into the blind nut. I have done this on a number of planes and it works. As you know. There will be little "lateral" forces on the wing trying to "pull it off the fuse" and all/most of the load will be in the vertical.

Ed

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 5/15/2013 10:30 PM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the comments guys. The wings are going to be permanently bonded to the fues. Dave the wing tanks will be the drop tanks supplied with the kit and will be permanently fixed to the wings. They are hollow and will except plastic bottles. The drop tanks are actually pretty close to the fuse and since the wings will be fixed, I dont think they will add that much in the G factor to the wings. They will also be drained first and I hope to have a main tank in the fues(though it wont be that big) Im aiming for at least 2 liters total.

Thanks for the tip Edward.. but Im long beyond making any further mods to that area of the plane. I think what Ill do is just try it with the spar accross the fues. If its starving for air, then Ill have to modify it. How's your Mig doing? You must have had many flights on it by now. Post a pic or two please.

Trev

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RE: Byron F-16 Turbine Conversion - 5/15/2013 10:45 PM   
edwarda10pilot


 

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Mig has been on the back burner for a while. I have been and EDF guy for a while and recently bought a used turbine so I have been working to finish the plane. Additionally, I got the Mig as a test bed for a new 6" fan (direct replacement for the Byron's) that a friend of mine is working on. The fan is also on the back burner while his work takes him away from the project and we find a company that can produce it for him. Here are a few photos of my turbine trainer.

Also, I have finished a nitro planes Falcon 120 EDF with my own conversion Dynamax fan and Scorpion motor and am working on an AMD Hawk for Turbax fan. Will get back to the Mig later this year. However, I have to decide if I want to repair my 120"span A-10 or work on the Mig.

Ed

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