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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 12:55 AM

mr_matt

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ORIGINAL: rshadroui

I would say if the club want's to ban turbines they would ALSO HAVE TO BAN ALL ELECTRIC AIRCRAFT. That would be a good argument in the turbine pilots favor.

With all due respect this is a terrible argument for turbine guys to make, it just does more to divide the club and is frankly a simplistic view of the world.

Holding someone hostage will just beget more hositility

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 2:35 AM

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I agree with Matt. Attacking likely a majority of the club is a terrible idea. The posts about being friendly and respectful seem right on. If people seem interested ask if they want to help out, ect. My first thought was perhaps trying to have set "jet time" but with 200 members that probably doesn't make sense.

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 2:40 AM

Ram-bro

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I truelly think you guys are hopeing aginst hope. Like he said the club is in florida and full of Greyheads and they ant going away. If they did nt come into the club flying jets, chances are they will never fly jets. Heck nothing wrong for trying but have a back up plan. I'm just saying......

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 3:17 AM

az3d

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Do you really think jets are the issue. Could be. I doubt it.

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 3:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ram-bro

I truelly think you guys are hopeing aginst hope. Like he said the club is in florida and full of Greyheads and they ant going away. If they did nt come into the club flying jets, chances are they will never fly jets. Heck nothing wrong for trying but have a back up plan. I'm just saying......

In 30 years, I wonder they will be saying about us "Greyheads"? Whoops, I am one now.

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 3:31 AM

Ram-bro

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I will just keep dying my hair.....that which doesnt fll out and flying my warbirds, both props and jets

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 3:43 AM

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ORIGINAL: Ram-bro

I will just keep dying my hair.....that which doesnt fll out and flying my warbirds, both props and jets

If they let bald geriatrics like you fly in their club.

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 4:01 AM

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We only have one jet flier at our club and he seems to fly very seldom. When I see him drive in and start getting his jet ready to fly I start packing up to leave. I cannot stand the sound and ear muffs hurt my ears to much.\

But thankfully he only seems to fly a few times a year.

Tom Moody

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 4:10 AM

Ram-bro

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is your name STKNRUD or STKNRUDE? man that hurts my feelings. Thank godness I am turning into an Old Coot and deaf on top of it....

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 4:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ram-bro

is your name STKNRUD or STKNRUDE? man that hurts my feelings. Thank godness I am turning into an Old Coot and deaf on top of it....

I can say that because I am sure I am an 'older coot' than you are becoming. I am lucky to have gotten in a couple of years of jets. I am afraid I am headed to that end of the flight line with the straw hats in rockers fatigued by flying a foamie. See you there!

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 10:11 AM

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Often when something like this happens it is not club politics, its just that we have shot ourselves in the foot. I know that when the heli pilots and the 3D pilots were in the heat of battle with those who flew in a more conventional style, it was not politics, but rather was a set of poor choices that had been made by the pilots who were offended by the attitudes that the more conventional pilots were taking concerning their choices of where to hover. The active runway was not that place.

As to the jet crash and subsequent fire, I can't help but wonder why the safety officer had not made sure that the fire supression systems were in battery and ready to be used before he allowed turbine flight to commence.

In Central Florida, property is not all that expensive. I used to belong to the Ocala Club, and they are a great group of people of all ages. I bought a farm and have my own flying field. I just didn't get in the way of The Villages and their planning growth area (yet).

Try to not blame others when you do something that brings the wrath down on you. You might want to go look in a mirror first. If you are not doing something that will cause others concern, then try educating them in your part of the hobby. I know that giant scale was once looked at in a negative manner by the .40 and .60 pilots. Now those old giants are fairly common. You can get there too.

Bill, Waco Brother #1
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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 11:29 AM

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Seems strange if you cannot stand the heat why are you in the kitchen???

Alan

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 11:45 AM

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that kind of attitude doesn't solve any problems . The guy did the right thing. rather than whine and complain to serve only his interests ,he left. In every club there's people that will irritate you . I find it's best to just stay away from them. i make a better friend than i do an enemy but you can only extend so many olive branches. i personally am getting to the point where i try to create a DRAMA FREE ZONE around me. Most of us are in it for fun . for some with too much time on their hands , their world is the airfield and the politics of the club . Maybe some have nagging wives ... who knows lol For me .. when i'm flying all that is "literally" behind me.

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 12:27 PM

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Good news. At the last club meeting I requested that the club put a link to the forestry service website just to help be proactive and its already done!

http://flame.fl-dof.com/fire_danger/wims-report.html

Thats the chart we use. When the fire danger is very high or above its no jet Flying and I am happy with that. So the positives in all this are:

We now have a crash cart with 4 -10 gallon fire extinguishers.
It also has regular fire extinguishers.
Rakes installed on fire cart.
A small shed is being built near the flight line to house the crash cart so its ready to go.
All the empty club extinguishers are now full.

So things are looking up. Just glad I have a back up club now at Apopka!

What people need to understand is in Florida its very seasonal. Our club has around 200 members. But only about 50 of them come out and fly. Most of the members live up North and only come down sometimes during the winter months. So most of the voters on issues are not in touch with whats going on down here.

Just to be clear since some of the people chose to make comments without reading first The pilot DID have his start up fire extinguisher. We all have our own start up extinguishers. It was not enough for the small grass fire by the time they made it out to the fire. I ALWAYS have my fore extinguisher with me at the flight line. Its attached to my cart that holds my plane. The public club fire extinguishers where the ones that 3 of the 4 where empty.

Also I am very proactive in helping people set their planes up and helping out. I have taken many other members planes up to trim them out. For some reason us jets pilots get a bad rap. I have even tried to go and fly on the dreaded Monday mornings to try and win the grumpy guys over but everytime I leave unhappy and feel unwelcome at my own home Field.

To the one guy (Rgburrill) that questioned my flying. I would love for you to give me some lessons. I am always willing to learn from a good pilot

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 1:12 PM

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Hold on here... you had 3 out of 4 empty fire extinguishers and a forth that was on its last breath.. Wow call me green, call me a clown but isn't it like cardinal rule number one about safety and turbines? Like using oxygen while smoking a cigarette. Ever see the rule sheet for welding? Not much different here. You’re a walking billboard for how not to do things. Complacency is bad and it caught up with you. Thank god your buddy did not put it in. You're lucky it was not a lot worse.

Think of it this way... you are a pilot of a plane and your plane goes down and you do not have a radio because the battery is dead and you do not have fire extinguishers because you did not fill them. If the FAA got hold of you, you would not be a pilot.

Your team should be ashamed. it IS a question of what could have happened. It IS a question of what should have been done and it is a question of sleeping at the switch and prevention. You want to preserve the hobby??? Hang up your hat and take up model trains.. strike one you’re out in this arena!

I hope that they revoked your rights to fly... Empty establishers.. not one but four?????

Wow

quote:

ORIGINAL: gunradd

I am a member of a club down here in Florida and a few weeks ago we had a Shokjet crash. The plane lost its elevator control and the turbine was shut off long before it hit the ground. Well the lipos for the receiver caught fire upon impact and started a fire. The guys went out to put the fire out but 3 of the 4 fire extinguishers where empty. The last one didn't have enough to get the fire out because it already spread because of the wind. By the time the Fire dept arrived it had gotten to a decent size. The fire dept sent out the rookies to battle the small brush fire since they needed experience and it was not threating anything. It became more of a controlled burn to get rid of the brush and training for the fire dept rookies. So it looked much worse then it was.

Well needless to say we already had many non turbine flying members very against us. So this was just ammo they could use to turn people against us. They right away started spreading rumors about us loosing the Field and turbines should be banned.

In the mean time the club officers held a meeting and purchased a gator tractor and 4 10gallon water extinguishers. Also replaced the 4 empty extinguishers. So now the Gator is on the flightline with the extinguishers ready to go and some rakes are also on the gator. So it went back to business as usual.

But the opposition persisted. This last week was our election for a new club president. Well a very outspoken anti turbine guy won. So I figured the best thing to do for me was to try and have a talk with him and show him how safe turbines where. So I went through the failsafe settings and how the turbine shuts down in a lockout. Showed him my power box dual receiver batts and all the other redundant things we have in our jets. Well he felt its all to complicated and flat out said that since only a few people fly them it wont impact many people if we just ban then altogether.

So it seems we have an uphill battle if we want to keep flying at our Field. The Board is still pro turbine so not sure if anything will happen but still its pretty stressfull. I only have one plane and its a turbine. The AMA really should step in and help us jet guys with stuff like this. I saw some great comments like the one from Bob in the other thread and would love for him to chime in.

Also on a side note these same guys didnt like my electric jets when I had them either. They said I fly to low,fast,high and far blah blah blah. I know every club has these guys but it sucks they can have the power to take something from us just because we are the minority.

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 1:15 PM

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i think you need the rest of the forum. you are misinformed... pilot had his own extinguisher . FOR HIS TURBINE .

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 1:15 PM

stoneenforcer

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ORIGINAL: bbagle1

Now I'm not a jet flyer but reading this gave me an idea. Why not beat the president to the punch? Make a proposal at the next club meeting to ban lipos in any aircraft carrying fuel. Hell go on and on about the dangers of lipos and how one could ignite gas or kerosene and cause you to lose the club. That would take the focus off of the jets and also maybe get some of the gas guys on your side because you will both share some common ground.

I belong to the same club as gunrad and I fly electric jets. I was thinking the exact same thing as you! beat them to the punch. the complainers are flying 30-40% gasoline powered Imac with lipos on board. Gasoline ignites waaaay easier then kero!! Ive seen their imac planes go down several times, but no fire YET!. the new club pres is an idiot and I'll say it straight to his face anyday, in private and professionally of course. its a shame, that someone with such ignorange and lack of intelligence can take presidency of the club and then act like a nazi. it angers me very much to hear of this problem for my fellow pilots.

turbines dont catch fire. lipos do! ESC's DO! BEC's DO! Ive seen more small fires with countless electric planes then anything! Heck, I had my own lipos go up in flames recently on the runway! no one person bothered me about it though.... which is a good thing for them. i just dont tolerate stupidity.

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 1:25 PM

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Personally I enjoy all areas of this hobby, giant scale gas, glo, electric, anything that flies really; so I am against anything that divides or tries to shut out somebody else for their particular interest in this hobby. I am a builder and a flyer, with that said I just refuse to associate or involve myself with clubs or people that are too political because it just takes the fun from whole thing altogether, I mean when B/S politics become the primary interest of the club and it's members its time to just move on. In every club, if there is going to be flying, then from time to time; there is going to be mishaps, it's to be expected. In fact the only real way to satisfy a 100% safety record is to not allow flying at all, but I guess you could say the same for NASCAR, football, baseball, bla, bla, bla. There is a few clubs in San Antonio and I am now or have been in the past a member of, anyway one of the clubs that has been around forever at one point had some 300+ members. During my membership with that club there was around 12 of us that were active flyers on any given week and always bunch of members that where the rules and safety police. Many clubs for some reason attract souls that need to be part of something and in many cases these souls then need to generate an abundance of structure within that body, there are also those that just need something to **** about and by god just let a giant scale or jet crash on the field in their presence and boy have you given them just what they need and thrive on for that next club meeting... Start your own club or just join another and go back to having fun.

Bob

< Message edited by sensei -- 12/6/2012 4:07 PM >

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 1:28 PM

jj46

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jgracco

Hold on here... you had 3 out of 4 empty fire extinguishers and a forth that was on its last breath.. Wow call me green, call me a clown but isn't it like cardinal rule number one about safety and turbines? Like using oxygen while smoking a cigarette. Ever see the rule sheet for welding? Not much different here. You’re a walking billboard for how not to do things. Complacency is bad and it caught up with you. Thank god your buddy did not put it in. You're lucky it was not a lot worse.

Think of it this way... you are a pilot of a plane and your plane goes down and you do not have a radio because the battery is dead and you do not have fire extinguishers because you did not fill them. If the FAA got hold of you, you would not be a pilot.

Your team should be ashamed. it IS a question of what could have happened. It IS a question of what should have been done and it is a question of sleeping at the switch and prevention. You want to preserve the hobby??? Hang up your hat and take up model trains.. strike one you’re out in this arena!

I hope that they revoked your rights to fly... Empty establishers.. not one but four?????

Wow

Oh come on. Get off of your high horse. First of all, it wasn't the OP that crashed... he was reporting a situation at his club. This thread is taking a positive turn by the changes the club has implemented since the incident, and you come on here and blast him full of negativity and tell him to take up model trains? I'm sure you've NEVER made a mistake. I'm sure you've NEVER made a questionable judgement call in regards to your own safety or the safety of others. If that is indeed true then you've probably never actually flown.

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 1:29 PM

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As a jet pilot , i have to respectfully disagree. while not all turbines explode in a raging inferno ,a fair share do burn. i don't know how many big jet rallys you've been to but a much larger ratio burn as compared to gas burners in which i have seen first hand. first, jets carry a lot more fuel and have the perfect ignition source, the turbine . running or not they are still hot. In the 30 years i've been flying i have never ever seen one Gasser burn. one the other hand , being a jet pilot for only 7 years i see many turbines burn . that's just the reality of r/c flying

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 1:33 PM

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jgracco

you are a perfect case of why i stay away from clubs now. sorry you brought that on yourself . can't you see .. you are the same thing your criticizing ?

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 1:41 PM

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We have a number of complainers at our club meetings, not people who fly regularly or those that even see a particular incident that they wish to complain about, my answer to them is always the same, "Your description seem to indicate that this was a potential serious incident, would you please prepare a Hazard analysis and Risk Assessment and present it at the next meeting for discussion" funny I have never seen either at the next meeting and the incidents don't form part of the club meetings very much now days, it normally shuts people up and the whole thing goes away.

lets face it if you did carry out a Hazard analysis on any flying activity the results would all be the same "Potential for serious incident" the Risk Assessment would show a lower risk with jets than any other, because of the procedures we adhere too.

Mike

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 1:46 PM

warbird_1

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that's because in england you don't fly no where's near as much as us yanks do. it rains over there all the time lol !

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 2:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jgracco

Hold on here... you had 3 out of 4 empty fire extinguishers and a forth that was on its last breath.. Wow call me green, call me a clown but isn't it like cardinal rule number one about safety and turbines? Like using oxygen while smoking a cigarette. Ever see the rule sheet for welding? Not much different here. You’re a walking billboard for how not to do things. Complacency is bad and it caught up with you. Thank god your buddy did not put it in. You're lucky it was not a lot worse.

Think of it this way... you are a pilot of a plane and your plane goes down and you do not have a radio because the battery is dead and you do not have fire extinguishers because you did not fill them. If the FAA got hold of you, you would not be a pilot.

Your team should be ashamed. it IS a question of what could have happened. It IS a question of what should have been done and it is a question of sleeping at the switch and prevention. You want to preserve the hobby??? Hang up your hat and take up model trains.. strike one you’re out in this arena!

I hope that they revoked your rights to fly... Empty establishers.. not one but four?????

Wow

quote:

ORIGINAL: gunradd

I am a member of a club down here in Florida and a few weeks ago we had a Shokjet crash. The plane lost its elevator control and the turbine was shut off long before it hit the ground. Well the lipos for the receiver caught fire upon impact and started a fire. The guys went out to put the fire out but 3 of the 4 fire extinguishers where empty. The last one didn't have enough to get the fire out because it already spread because of the wind. By the time the Fire dept arrived it had gotten to a decent size. The fire dept sent out the rookies to battle the small brush fire since they needed experience and it was not threating anything. It became more of a controlled burn to get rid of the brush and training for the fire dept rookies. So it looked much worse then it was.

Well needless to say we already had many non turbine flying members very against us. So this was just ammo they could use to turn people against us. They right away started spreading rumors about us loosing the Field and turbines should be banned.

In the mean time the club officers held a meeting and purchased a gator tractor and 4 10gallon water extinguishers. Also replaced the 4 empty extinguishers. So now the Gator is on the flightline with the extinguishers ready to go and some rakes are also on the gator. So it went back to business as usual.

But the opposition persisted. This last week was our election for a new club president. Well a very outspoken anti turbine guy won. So I figured the best thing to do for me was to try and have a talk with him and show him how safe turbines where. So I went through the failsafe settings and how the turbine shuts down in a lockout. Showed him my power box dual receiver batts and all the other redundant things we have in our jets. Well he felt its all to complicated and flat out said that since only a few people fly them it wont impact many people if we just ban then altogether.

So it seems we have an uphill battle if we want to keep flying at our Field. The Board is still pro turbine so not sure if anything will happen but still its pretty stressfull. I only have one plane and its a turbine. The AMA really should step in and help us jet guys with stuff like this. I saw some great comments like the one from Bob in the other thread and would love for him to chime in.

Also on a side note these same guys didnt like my electric jets when I had them either. They said I fly to low,fast,high and far blah blah blah. I know every club has these guys but it sucks they can have the power to take something from us just because we are the minority.

Nothing like making a statement without having actually payed any attention to what happened ;p

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RE: The politics of jet flying - 12/6/2012 3:20 PM

Joe Westrich

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Although I hate the drama that always seems to alway infiltrate this hobby, this thread has been usefull to me.

We turbine flyers are very few in Cincinnati but for some reason we have a club (GCRCC) that really accepts us as a part of the group. I guess I didn't realize we had it so lucky. I have been a part of a few clubs now and it is rare to find a place where most of the people are positive and open. Even the older folks

My club really embraces the heli guys too. I don't know what the difference is, or why my club is different, but I want it to stay this way. So me and other turbine guy had the same thought at the same time. We are going to jump in to a proactive mode and make sure our club is always safe, educated and compliant, just out of respect for the good treatment we have gotten over the years.

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