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confused about batteries, I have searched still confused - 12/5/2012 11:17 PM   
raron455


 

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OK, I have multiple NIMH batteries in my planes, I use 2000 MAH 4.8 packs on my ignitions,, and 2-3000 mah 6.0v  for my controls,, They work, 
A couple guys at the field have been talking to me about these A123 batteries,, OR LIFE batteries,, they tell me that they are much better than the nimh batts, they hold a charge longer dont discharge as fast and have plenty of power to spare,, IS this true?  if so what does it take to run one, do I need a regulator or such,, still need one for the ignition and controls, ?? or is this all just a bunch of talk,, I would like to find out as I am in need of some batteries right now and want to do it right,, Thanks

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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/6/2012 12:01 AM   
SkidMan


 

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IMHO A123 or LiFe batteries are completely superior to NMh batteries.

Especially A123 based battery packs can deliver FAR more power than NiMh batteries with a lower voltage drop.
The voltage drop-off as they discharge is far lower than NiMh.

That said, your ignition system is likely to require a lower voltage than straight out of a A123, Hobbico, or other battery pack. A regulator or even a diode in line should be sufficient to drop the voltage for an electronic CDI.

You will need a charger capable of recharging LiFe chemistry batteries. If you have a recent vintage charger that will charge LiPo batteries it is likely that it will also charge LiFe batteries.

A vital thing to keep in mind is that you MUST develop a new way of judging when the battery is ready for another flight. Due to the low voltage drop as the battery discharges, just measuring the battery voltage before another flight is insufficient! You must make an estimate of the total flight time of a battery based upon the number of mAH recharged into the battery based upon engine runtime/flight time. There are plenty of posts dealing with this subject.

I switched two years ago and never looked back.


Paul



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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/6/2012 12:09 AM   
flyinwalenda


 

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When my NiCd and NiMh flight packs give up I have been replacing them with Lipo 2 cell packs and regulators to reduce the typical 7.4 volts down to 6 volts. Now with the 2 cell Life or A123 packs they  are a bit lower in voltage than lipos and have a typical 6.6 volts and may not require a regulator provided your receiver and servos can handle the voltage.
A fully charged Lipo is around 8 volts so a regulator is required.
A fully charged Life is around 7 volts so a regulator may not be required.
You will need a lipo balance charger that either has the setting already programmed for Life or one where you can adjust the cell voltage of the lipo setting from 3.7 to 3.3 and then you can charge and maintain the Life packs.
The run time between charges is fantastic compared to NiCd or NiMh packs.
They weigh much less than NiMh packs.
They have a much longer lifespan(if properly maintained) than NiMh
On my next plane or when my next flight pack gives it up I will be installing LiFe or A123 packs.


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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/7/2012 11:30 AM   
kwblake


 

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There is a bunch of info on A123's here.   http://www.hangtimes.com/



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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/7/2012 12:33 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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Yes, you can run 2 cell straight to the reciever just like a 5 cell pack.

As for the ignition wrongwayrc.com sells an inline voltage drop thats a diode to drop the voltage to what most ignitions will run fine on.

CellPro is a good, simple A123 charger

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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/7/2012 4:03 PM   
raptureboy


 

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+2 on hangtimes truely no BS about batteries and where I buy mine. If the plane is worth something then your batteries should be also.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kwblake

There is a bunch of info on A123's here.   http://www.hangtimes.com/





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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/8/2012 11:39 PM   
raron455


 

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thanks guys


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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/9/2012 2:49 AM   
Len Todd


 

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A123 filed for bankruptcy the month before last. Not sure how long their products will even be made, and I would bet their patent is tied up in that mess also. Their office is in MI, very near here, and, last I heard, they are down from several hundred employees to just a skeleton staff. They got a ton of stimulus $s or they would have been gone long ago!

I personally have stuck with LiPos. LiPo prices have come down significantly and they offer the same basic advantages as LiFe. Given the pending bankruptcy proceedings, I would bet that availability of LiFe is or soon will be an issue.

I do have Voltage Regulators feeding servos to keep them at 5.9 VDC. But the DLE 111's CDIs that I have are fed directly with 2S LiPos. The DLE CDIs are rated for up to 9 VDC. Whether or not you regulate any of these circuits is based on the components' input specs. Some CDIs and servos may not handle the 8.4 VDC max that a 2S LiPo gives you. Look at your components’ input specs.

BTW: SmartFly has a new Ignition Circuit Optical Kill Switch that has the regulator integrated into it. I have one for the next build. It’s input voltage is rated for  > 2S Lipo. But, I already have dozens of hours on one plane that does not have any regulation to the DLE CDI and it is using a 2S LiPo directly.

When your dealing with receivers, many have a cut-off of 4.3 VDC. And, you can momentarily see =< 4.3 VDC on some of these MiMh batteries when they are nearly fully charged and heavily loaded. This is where a lot of folks get into trouble when they get packs with too low of voltage (e.g. < 5vdc) and or capacity (e.g <2000 mah for a “run of the mill” plane) to start with. NiMh batteries can also get a false charge and fail on you very rapidly.  NiCads are just too heavy and bulky when you compare them to “state of the art” batteries.




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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/9/2012 2:33 PM   
Goldenduff


 

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I think Johnstone controls have bought the patent....

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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/9/2012 9:48 PM   
Rubbernecker


 

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I read up on this prior to the op and found out that they were hinging on GM's Volt Car. Can you believe that GM who received a bailout from the American tax payers choose to go with a Chinese manufacturer of A123 batteries? Something is wrong with our system when we (the tax payers) provide support for 2 companies and one of those is allowed to force the other into bankruptcy by buying foreign............ Only in America!

John

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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/10/2012 1:13 AM   
Len Todd


 

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It wasn't GM's supplier choice that put A123 into the gutter. The Volts were/are just not selling. Who can live with a car that takes several hours to recharge after only going 40 miles? And to recharge them, you have to install a dedicated high current circuit for the chargers that were buring up the charge cabling.

GM never would have went into the Volt and A123 the related LiFe maufacturing, if they were not subsidized by the government. Another perfect example of what happens when big government intervenes in our lives!



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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/10/2012 3:30 AM   
SeaJay


 

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A123 isn't the only source for LiFe Batteries..  I have 6 packs from HobbyKing, and so far they seem to be doing a great job..  I also have several A123 packs, and would prefer to use those, due to their configuration, 2 cylindrical cells vs 2 thin, long flat cells. much more difficult to fit those into the fuse of some aircraft. But all in all, I love my LiFe packs..  I especially enjoy the ability to charge them in less than an hour, VS C/10 for most NiXx chemistry cells.  I also like the relative safety of the LiFe pacs Vs that of the LiPo packs. Less of a fire risk..

Craig.


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RE: confused about batteries, I have searched still con... - 12/10/2012 3:50 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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That bankrupcy isnt affecting the supply of the A123 batteries for tools, military, and hobby use.

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