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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Gas Engines >> RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine
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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/8/2013 4:33 PM   
vertical grimmace



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quote:

ORIGINAL: the pope

Hi are metal geared servos required as with bigger gassers ? Cheers the pope

Metal gears are not necessary for big gassers, but the Karbonite gears should be avoided. They are to brittle to handle the pulses of large gas engines. The Nylon gears hold up just fine. Of course metal gears are fine as well, but not required.
I am sure as far as this engine goes, any of them are fine.

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/8/2013 7:45 PM   
skip1320


 

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Status: offline 		Ridiculous,ALL gassers should have metal gear,really wish the moderators would eliminate all the repition,and blind leadn blind for safty alone,like automatic link to the newbie thread.

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/8/2013 8:18 PM   
tkg


 

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Status: offline 		Why would a 10cc gasser need metal gears, when a 10cc glow doesn't?

quote:

ORIGINAL: skip1320

Ridiculous,ALL gassers should have metal gear,really wish the moderators would eliminate all the repition,and blind leadn blind for safty alone,like automatic link to the newbie thread.


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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/8/2013 8:24 PM   
skip1320


 

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Status: offline 		Make the investment,beat in there heads now nobody gets hurt,why debate

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/8/2013 8:34 PM   
rcrobby82



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I completely disagree with you. Your logic is flawed.

There is NO reason to use metal geared servos on a plane this size... THAT is ridiculous. My personal preference is anything 20cc and over gets metal gears due to flight loads and engine pulses from the larger gas engines. any plane this engine can fly will be fine with standard servos. The larger gas engines and bigger planes, yes, they need metal gears to hold up properly. My plane that this engine is going on flew fine with standard servos on glow and will be fine using this gas engine. 

The airframe does not care what fuel the engine is using. Remember wayyyy back when the little O&R engines ran on gas along with many more... no metal gear servos there....

Save your money, why debate...




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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/8/2013 8:37 PM   
wyo69cowboy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: tkg

Why would a 10cc gasser need metal gears, when a 10cc glow doesn't?

quote:

ORIGINAL: skip1320

Ridiculous,ALL gassers should have metal gear,really wish the moderators would eliminate all the repition,and blind leadn blind for safty alone,like automatic link to the newbie thread.


Agreed. No where in this thread have I read that this gas version vibrates to any real degree more than the glow version...

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/8/2013 8:57 PM   
josephcraig


 

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Status: offline 		I Think its gonna be preference of metal over plastic..i have been flying in a club for 2 years and haven't seen any problems with 40 to 60 size planes with gears..I normally don't worry about a little weight but you can save a bunch of weight by going with plastic gear servos...big rudder probably wouldn't hurt for metal gear,but ele and ail. should be fine..thats my opinion...i'm not wanting to cause no confusion.....happy flying

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 1:45 AM   
FlatSpin


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wyo69cowboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tkg

Why would a 10cc gasser need metal gears, when a 10cc glow doesn't?

quote:

ORIGINAL: skip1320

Ridiculous,ALL gassers should have metal gear,really wish the moderators would eliminate all the repition,and blind leadn blind for safty alone,like automatic link to the newbie thread.


Agreed. No where in this thread have I read that this gas version vibrates to any real degree more than the glow version...

In my personal experience with the Evo 10cc, it does vibrate more than an OS 55AX. Not a serious amount more, but as others have confirmed, it does shake the muffler screws apart until you get them “worn in” (heat treated?). You still need to do periodic checks on all the screws too. Granted, the OS 55 muffler screws needed checked the first few flights, but after a couple of flights they’re good to go. I haven’t had any screws coming loose on my OS 55 in over 3 years. So far, the Evo needs everything checked every 2-3 flights, “just to be sure”, including the idle stop screw.

I personally don’t think a standard servo is a risk on this engine, but anything larger than a 10-15cc and you should use something besides plastic gears. I’ve been using digital Karbonite servos on my DLE 20 for about 2 years with no issues. I have metal gear servos on my OS 33.

Dave

< Message edited by FlatSpin -- 2/9/2013 4:23 AM >

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 2:12 AM   
the pope


 

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From: goolwasa, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Boy that started an ol fashion sh#t storm . While Im new to gassers Im not a complete noob ( been in rc since 04 ) . Been called a Knob though ! Thats why I asked the question pretty much as Pete from horizon made a post hopeing he would give me the low down . Now Im still non the wiser , I do have some jr metal gear servos although they were earmarked for a bigger project but had planed on using some spek. 6000 that I also have . Its going on a scratch built 40 size ugly stik . I thought that being a smaller gasser that plastic geared dig servos maybe ok . cheers the pope

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 2:23 AM   
josephcraig


 

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Status: offline 		its all good,if you feel better going that way go for it.everybody has there own preference..you can ask 10 people and get 10 different answers.....happy flying



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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 4:56 AM   
ashworthb


 

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Status: offline 		I have the Evolution 10cc in the Horizon Meridian. First few flights revealed an under powered airplane (engine running fairly rich). For the 3rd flight, I tried to lean out the engine and discovered that I could turn the high speed needle completely closed and the engine still kept running? When examining the needle valve it was only about 3/16" long from the end of the threads and was not tapered. I originally thought that the needle valve was broken. I called Horizon technical support and they said that the needle valve was broken and sent me a new high speed needle valve. Unfortunately, the needle valve that I received is exactly the same as the original one (3/16" long from the threads with a blunt end)? Not sure where to go from here???

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 6:24 AM   
dwreel



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Status: offline 		Just call them again and ask them to replace the needle with one that isn't broken. Let them know they sent you another broken needle valve. Be nice and they will take care of you.

dick.
please keep us posted.


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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 1:20 PM   
FlatSpin


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dwreel

Just call them again and ask them to replace the needle with one that isn't broken. Let them know they sent you another broken needle valve. Be nice and they will take care of you.

dick.
please keep us posted.

I just measured the one I have and it is 5.5mm (~7/32) long. Longer than 3/16" but just shy of 1/4". The end is not tapered very much "from the factory". I say "from the factory" because I modified my needle end to give it a tapered shape. BTW, I tried a HS needle from an OS 46 engine and it seems to fit and it is very tapered. I will try running the engine with the OS needle this weekend to see how well it works.

Dave

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 2:10 PM   
AA5BY


 

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Status: offline 		I haven't tried to turn the needle in to see how far it will go and the engine still run... but I have observed that the engine will run quite well on the flat without rpm loss when leaning beyond the point of no gain. However, when pointing the nose up, it will sag but unlike a glow engine that will quickly die when too lean, the 10GX will continue to run albeit with lower power from being too lean. Strangely, it does not seem to overheat.

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 4:46 PM   
rmh



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Status: offline 		Once they sag - you are have taken the first step to engine failure
Gasoline engines run in a MUCH smaller allowable fuel mixture range .
You should never run a setting which will allow the engine to sag in any attitude .
set right -with proper prop siz - th engine should run cleanly in any attitude .
large sized props will require a setting which will grumble a bit in level flight -in order to have enough fuel to keep temp in the correct range as you load the engine during climbing maneuvers
by the same token- they will go rich in a dive .
With summer temperatures, all this will become much more apparant.

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 5:10 PM   
Kentli22


 

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Status: offline 		when my plane is doing verticle ( APC 12*8 ), the rpm/power output sounds normal for the first few seconds, then starts to slow down which sounds like it will quit if I continue to let it climb. I will always level it at that point to prevent it from dead stick. After I level it,  rpm goes back to normal. I can't tell if this means too rich or too lean? Can anyone help out?

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 6:21 PM   
rmh



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Status: offline 		It is too lean - for the load
The load is the work
you have plane which is obviously more load than the engine/prop can keep moving vertically a a steady speed .
Nothing unusual about that
The fix is typically to reduce the prop load -
This a cut n try thing. Also yo may never find the right prop ,simply because the engine can't generate enough power to turn a prop which will pull that particular model vertically at a constant speed .
Again- this in not uncommon.
You must compromise -
but first -if you want to use this same prop - richen the engine slightly and try again- you may find the speed in level flight has slowed a bit - as the mix is rich for max level speed flying - but chimbing is more work and more load takes more fuel.

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 6:50 PM   
tkg


 

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Status: offline 		Factory settings NOT, you have to adjust the carb for your flying style, prop, airframe, air temp. Its not rocket science, just take little bites. If it isnt right it wont fix its self and to keep flying is a new engine.

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 7:53 PM   
AA5BY


 

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Status: offline 		Yeah... I agree with tkg about the danger of continuing to fly when an engine is sagging and this may be more of a problem with a gas 10GX than a comparable glow engine because the gas engine doesn't balk as bad or as quick. And... I also agree that greater loading needs a mixture that will experience four stroking on the flats, which is fine for me with my desire for slower speeds and quite typical of my memories running Enya engines that typically four stroked on the flats.

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/9/2013 10:37 PM  1 votes
fred985


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie

i like the Merdian....looks sexxxy....id be all over this little engine if i could run 32:1 or 40:1........ i run 40:1 in ALL my gassers 20cc on up, and hate to have to lug more than one gas can around

lug around a pint or two of gas for that tiny thing would need a pack mule for sure,,,,just carry one pint and only have enough gass for 4 flights. talk about being lazy,,,,hehe

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/10/2013 1:08 AM   
josephcraig


 

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Status: offline 		yea i think he is trying too much pitch in my opinion, i like to use  5 and 6 degree pitches on all two strokes engines,expecially small engines..i think you are better to under prop one just a little than to over prop one..let the engine breath and its easier to tune....5.5 degree would be peferct for me but apc don't make one....i did learn a little this weekend on the apc props sanding the ends a little making it equally tapered like an arrowhead lets the engine spin up better..just sand on one side of the tip making it equal point..i learned it from a prop that that was on a hobbico trainer...you always seem like you learning stuff in this hobby......happy flying guys..


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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/10/2013 2:32 AM   
bcchi


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

quote:

ORIGINAL: the pope

Hi are metal geared servos required as with bigger gassers ? Cheers the pope

Metal gears are not necessary for big gassers, but the Karbonite gears should be avoided. They are to brittle to handle the pulses of large gas engines. The Nylon gears hold up just fine. Of course metal gears are fine as well, but not required.
I am sure as far as this engine goes, any of them .
I do not no where this story about Karbonite gears and gas burners came from. I have used dozens of Hitek 645 KB gear servoes in gas burners all the way up to 85CC.Only one I ever lost a gear on was from a mid air,did not break the gear tooth off but bent it over.
I put a gear in a vice and tried to knock a tooth off with a screw driver and hitting it with my hand had to use a small hammer and then it bent over and did not break off. But any way I am using metal gears in my new plains but have a bunch of older gassers with KB gears.
I believe the KB gears Hitek is 635 not 645.Sorry.
Why don't some of you guys from down there come to Riverton for out fun fly in July I believe like 12,13,14.We have the nicest flying field in western states. five 25 ft awnings AC power in all of them.Two paved runways grass out field and overuns.
About 4&1/2 hours from Ft Collins.Through Laramie over Beaver Rim. I am like the old tune ,Don't get around much any more.
Let me no if you need more info.
Bill C

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/10/2013 3:57 AM   
Kentli22


 

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Status: offline 		thanks for the advise. now that I know that it means too lean/over-loaded, I will richen it or reduce the pitch size.

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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/11/2013 1:07 AM   
josephcraig


 

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Status: offline 		try that Kentli on all your small plane two stroke.I lean more toward 5 degree pitch. that just my preference.if its really turning that prop well,put the 6 on there and if its doing the same thing,jump up to 13 x 5.different engines react different ways according to there power range.i never like to lug a two stroke.happy flying.if this engine is as good as there glow engines,it will be reaaly great.....


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RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine - 2/11/2013 4:00 AM   
Kentli22


 

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Status: offline 		This is a realy great engine rigt out of the box, it had never dead stick on me eventhough the needles were not adjusted to its best performance. 

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