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Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/10/2012 4:13 AM   
mt4g3-er



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Status: offline 		Hey everyone, before I go ahead and blow up my AE RC10GT, I was wondering if it would be possible (and practical) for me to mix let's say, two parts 20% nitro with one part Premium gas. This mixture might be a real humdinger! Diesel is also an option in place of gas, as. Know you can run glows right off it with a simple conversion, but it hinders performance a little speed-wise. I'm.fully aware of gas conversions, just not up for the price though.

I'm also aware that I'll need to be replacing O-Rings as gas eats those away.

My end goal in this is to save money on buying nitro, extend the runtimes a bit longer, have a third MORE fuel at my expense, and maybe even get a more powerful truck on the high-end with the addition of gas.

Thanks,
Shane

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/10/2012 6:13 PM   
Anthoop



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Status: online 		Quite simply, no.
You can make your own nitro fuel, making it cheaper, but it depends on how much fuel you use.

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/10/2012 6:36 PM   
ejc34710


 

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Status: offline 		Make sure you get a movie of that engine running if you decide to mix that gas in there lol. I wanna see....

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/10/2012 10:03 PM   
mt4g3-er



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthoop

Quite simply, no.
You can make your own nitro fuel, making it cheaper, but it depends on how much fuel you use.


If you don't mind, I'm just curious as to why it wont work. My theory was that the nitro would start the combustion, and then it would in turn light the gasoline.

Shane

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/11/2012 1:19 AM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		If you're interested in doing a search, have a look in here:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_92/p_2/tmode_1/smode_1/tt.htm

I don't know if anyone has done it in engines as small as what a 1/10 or 1/8 scale R/C Car or Truck uses though? It's usually done the other way around...running a converted weed wacker gas engine on a blend of gas / glow fuel with a glow plug...
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11156409/tm.htm

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/11/2012 1:21 AM   
SyCo_VeNoM



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Status: offline 		Nitro needs less air to burn than gasoline so your gas won't ignite



quote:


The amount of air required to burn 1 lb (0.45 kg) of gasoline is 14.7 pounds (6.7 kg), but only 1.7 lb (0.77 kg) of air is required for 1 lb of nitromethane. Since an engine's cylinder can only contain a limited amount of air on each stroke, 8.7 times more nitromethane than gasoline can be burned in one stroke. Nitromethane, however, has a lower energy density: Gasoline provides about 42–44 MJ/kg whereas nitromethane provides only 11.3 MJ/kg. This analysis indicates that nitromethane generates about 2.3 times the power of gasoline when combined with a given amount of oxygen.



Now HPI was working on a gasoline 1/8th scale engine though but that kinda seemed to fizzle

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/11/2012 3:30 AM   
mt4g3-er



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Status: offline 		Yeah I've heard of the new HPI 1/8 gas. It seems nice, but I don't want to dish out 100's of bucks when it comes out.

Any diesel peeps out here? DON'T REFER ME TO DAVISDIESELDEVELOPMENT. I DON'T LIKE THAT GUY AT ALL. It'll be a little bit low on power, but I like the idea of mixing lighter fluid and all that.

Are there ANY alternatives to nitro that require minimal modding? Other then the already mentioned gas/diesel?

Shane

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/11/2012 3:56 AM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		It's rather common in some other countries (where Nitromethane is either extremely expensive, or illegal ) to run a "Glow" engine on low or NO Nitro. These engines typically have a higher compression ratio...

You could modify your engine(s ) to increase the compression ratio...then run them on just Methanol and oil.
Have a look in the Glow Engines forum...it's mostly Aircraft engines, but the principles are the same...

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/12/2012 3:46 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		I don't see why it wouldn't work.  Gas makes the needle more sensitive, and methanol is needed to light the plug.  Make sure there is enough oil, and everything is mixed nicely, not in suspension.  I have been wanting to try about 20% gas and 30 to one outboard motor or snowmobile oil with the rest methanol just to see if it works.  I have lots of motors to wreck for experimenting (K&B .40's)  I haven't rushed into this because I can get 10% fuel at Toledo for $12 a gallon, and the gasoline stinks up the car.

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/12/2012 7:08 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: proptop

It's rather common in some other countries (where Nitromethane is either extremely expensive, or illegal ) to run a ''Glow'' engine on low or NO Nitro. These engines typically have a higher compression ratio...

You could modify your engine(s ) to increase the compression ratio...then run them on just Methanol and oil.
Have a look in the Glow Engines forum...it's mostly Aircraft engines, but the principles are the same...

niromethane is illegal in some areas? Why? At 32$ a gallon on the east coast usa I feel its pricey what kinds of prices do others typically pay?

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/13/2012 1:35 AM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		In some areas of Europe...not sure exactly how many different countries, but it is considered an explosive, so.....

32 bucks a gallon is relatively "cheap" considering how much some guys "over there" have to pay...

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/14/2012 8:36 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Status: offline 		Flyers have done gas/glow for a long time. JUST NOT ON ABC ENGINES. Gasoline burns hotter than methanol/nitromethane so higher operating temps are to be expected. It's far more common to run a gas/glow mix on ringed engines. This is not to say it won't work, but an ABC engine will not last nearly as long.

I mix my own fuel; a gallon of 20/12 fuel costs me less than $10-13 a gallon to make. I paid $55 for a gallon of nitro.

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/17/2012 3:48 AM   
Max_Power



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Status: offline 		The diesel is not lighter fluid, but lamp oil.....and also a big dose of ether, and castor oil. Lighter fluid is naptha, lamp oil is paraffin(close to kerosene or diesel). If you have any interest in diesel, you might want to learn to like Bob Davis and listen to what he has to say....because honestly in that field he knows what he is talking about and is about the worlds biggest source of diesel conversions and one of the few places you can get diesel model fuel in the USA. As far as making your own the issue is although some folks use one specific brand of spray starting fluid as a workable but not optimum substitute...you WILL NOT be able to purchase real diethyl ether in the USA because of drug laws and its use in the manufacture of illicit substances

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/23/2012 4:36 AM   
CarGuy7a


 

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Status: offline 		Gasoline will turn a nitro RC motor into a little grenade.

The reason you CANNOT run gasoline in a nitro motor is because gasoline does not need as much compression to burn and is more explosive than nitro fuel. If you pour a spot of gasoline on a concrete surface and light it, it burns up very fast. Do the same with nitro fuel and it will burn very slowly. Nitro fuel consists of 3 components, Methanol (which is the main fuel base), Nitro methane (which adds that little extra boost needed to provide sufficient power in a smaller motor), and castor and synthetic blended oils for lubrication. Methanol burns slower than gasoline but the burn is accelerated by higher compression and runs cooler than gasoline. Essentially a nitro motor works on the same principals as a diesel motor, glow plug ignition, high compression, and a slow burning fuel. Add a fast burning fuel into that mix and boom you just turned your motor into a thousand little aluminum chunks.

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/23/2012 4:01 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		Ether is worse IMHO than gasoline and it is needed in to get the diesels to run at all.  That is the chemical that blows up all the drug labs.  Gasoline is really a very nasty fuel, but it does work good in cars, weedwackers etc.  The spark is controlled better than a glow though for sure. So I guess bring a fire extinguisher and a helmet when testing?

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/23/2012 5:32 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Status: offline 		The argument that gasoline cannot be used in a glow (nitro) engine is utter BOGUS. Guys have converted glow engines to run on gas for years if not decades.

Most glow engines aren't as highly compressed as one would think. Most of mine are 8.5:1-11:1. Nothing out of the ordinary here, 90-93 octane would behave fine. Even 87 would probably be okay. True, gasoline burns faster than alcohol, but is more explosive than alcohol. Glow fuel is safer than gasoline in most cases. The problem with running an ABC engine on gasoline is the combustion temperature. Gasoline burns much hotter than methanol, so your RTR engine that runs 250-280*F will likely run 350*F or higher which does not bode well with the bearings that come loose from the crankcase around 330-350*F.

The bonus with gasoline is the stoichiometric ratio is 14.7:1 whereas methanol is about 6.4:1 and ethanol being 9:1. Nitromethane is 1.7:1. This means you get a lot better fuel economy with gasoline than methanol or methanol/nitro mixes.

If someone wanted to save some money on fuel, mixing 2 parts gasoline to 1 part glow fuel and adding a little extra oil will run well on a glow plug, but you still have the higher heat to address.




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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/23/2012 6:25 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: offline 		OK, so skip the helmet, and keep the fire extinguisher, and use a dune buggy heatsink head .

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RE: Nitro/Gas mixed! - 12/23/2012 9:29 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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quote:

ORIGINAL: aspeed

OK, so skip the helmet, and keep the fire extinguisher, and use a dune buggy heatsink head .

Exactly!

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