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RE: New trainer jet fully composite - would you buy one? - 12/10/2012 10:01 PM   
paulsf86


 

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One of the biggest challenges you will face are shipping cost. Most ARF type kits these days are large and ship cost is typically $200 to 500. This is a large cost to the newbie or sport turbine pilot. Add this to a cost for the plane of $1200 and I think it will be a tough sell.

Paul S

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RE: New trainer jet fully composite - would you buy one? - 12/10/2012 10:08 PM   
i3dm


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulsf86

Lior:

One of the biggest challenges you will face are shipping cost. Most ARF type kits these days are large and ship cost is typically $200 to 500. This is a large cost to the newbie or sport turbine pilot. Add this to a cost for the plane of $1200 and I think it will be a tough sell.

Paul S


EMS shipping world wide *should* be under 200 $USD.


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RE: New trainer jet fully composite - would you buy one? - 12/10/2012 10:49 PM   
ira d


 

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Status: offline 		IMO for a high wing trainer the price would be on the steep side, I think around $800.00 would be more in the ball park.

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RE: New trainer jet fully composite - would you buy one? - 12/11/2012 12:48 AM   
LGM Graphix



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quote:

ORIGINAL: i3dm

Hello guys,
A good friend who works in the israeli UAV industry for many years is considering manufacturing a trainer / sports jet in the area of the foxcub and jetmach, but fully composite.
What i'd like to know is weather there is a market share for such a bird that would cost about 1250$ for a kit, with all hardware, fully composite build and painted in the mould - what do you think?
Mind you this kit would be 100% made and shipped from Israel - built with latest composite technologies for a strong light structure - this would be a high quality kit!

Thanks for your replies.



I guess I'd have to look at it this way, if there was a big market for that style of airplane with fixed gear, be it kit or composite, I'd think the foxcub would have been much more successful, and the AV8R's and Shokjets would be much more prevalent. But the simple fact is, with a good airplane like the Shokjet available at a good pricepoint as an arf, they aren't flying off the shelves, at that level in jets, I don't think anyone is going to care if it's composite or not, price will be the main selling feature on that type of airplane. Bottom line is, whether it flies good or not should be irrelevant, if it doesn't fly good why would anyone produce it, so in the end, it will come down to the price and I certainly don't see any success with an all composite version of airplanes that didn't exactly break any sales records in a far less expensive form.

Just my opinion, and don't get me wrong, I think the AV8R, shokjet, etc are all fine airplanes, but they certainly didn't become popular like Kangaroo's and Boomerangs were.

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RE: New trainer jet fully composite - would you buy one? - 12/11/2012 1:14 AM   
Knock



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ORIGINAL: mirce

I have some other idea, so this discussion and your opinions maybe can help me in my project.
On this site I write about my new project, 1/5 scale Galeb G2 (wingspan 2320mm).

My idea is to offer classic jet model in kit form, on acceptable price.
We made complete model in 3D program, and all parts are cut on laser cut machine, time for building is drastically lower, because everything fits perfectly and almost no extra work on first building stage.
I'm sure that everyone can made that model in two - three months. In that time is time for glassing, and painting.

Construction is very robust, very strong, especially the wings in LG area, just for case of bad landings. Model is big, but it will be light, so Jet Cat P 80, or similar turbine, will be enough.

Kit will have many parts which in some other firms you must extra buy and pay (plans, spars, gas tanks, flaps hinges, tip tanks, gear doors, canopy, lights...).
Right now I haven't accurate price, but it will be about like Ziroli Panther. Don't forget, F9F have 1830 mm wing span and Galeb is 2320 mm...

My goal is to made kit, that will save you at least 1200 - 1500$ in comparison to similar ARF models...
Yes you need to invest time to made it, but with good finish and details, Galeb G2 will not be different from more expensive (composite) jets...

I'm still working on model yet, but how it looks you can see here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10948682/mpage_2/tm.htm

Regards

Mirce


Mirce I for one would like to buy a Galeb from you........I think a very pretty airplane....looks like a good grass field jet .....would like trailing link gear on it. .


cheers

Jerome


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RE: New trainer jet fully composite - would you buy one? - 12/11/2012 2:46 AM   
mirce


 

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Status: online 		Thank you Jerome...

You are the first who told me that, and give me "new wind in the sails", showing that for this kind of models will be modelers who want to buy and made jet model on this way...
You make my day happy...

Idea about Galeb G2 come to me from my Ziroli Panther and grass airfield we have here in Novi Sad. It look pretty flat, but it's not, so jet model jump a lot on take off, and landings.
As someone mentioned here, landing with jet model is much different than with a big warbirds. I bent many times front landing gear on Panther. Thanks God I just change one shaft on Robart front LG and go again to fly.

I saw that some modelers enlarged Zirolis plans for 20% and use same turbine equipment. In that case you got bigger wing area with just little more model weight. Wheels and landing gears are bigger too.
Firstly I want enlarged plans also, but after thinking I've got an idea, if I need to invest so much effort to made that model, why I don't start to made something mine?

Like in good movies, I put on our Serbian Modeler Forum advertise that I'm looking for someone who know to work in some 3D program, and Martin send me e-mail... Rest is history...

For now Martin and I spend more than 100 hours on 3D drawings and project is not finished yet. Right now we are working on horizontal and vertical stabilizer and on the rear of the fuselage.

Galeb originally was school and fighter plane and a classic wing concept provides the perfect platform for a good jet model too.

I want to made wooden model and type of construction I made here is proven many times on a lot off big war birds model. Because this is jet model, with bigger G forces and speed, I made spars and wing construction very strong (to be frank, I might have gone too far). It just a little raised a weight of the model, but give enormous strength.

Many pictures I put on the my web site, or here on RC Universe, is more like story how some project come from piece of paper to flying machine... But, thanks to that, I don't need to made building manual...

I hope at spring will be maiden flight, and after that and after testing, during next year first kits will be offer to the market...

And one more thing, shipping kits are much cheaper - boxes are smaller and lighter...

Regards

Mirce

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RE: New trainer jet fully composite - would you buy one? - 12/11/2012 8:45 AM   
madmodelman



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Status: offline 		I'm watching with interest also Mirce.
Good luck with your project,
Gary.

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RE: New trainer jet fully composite - would you buy one? - 12/13/2012 12:08 AM   
Knock



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Status: offline 		Mirce how are you making the more delicate parts.......lazer cut ? The Galeb would be a nice alternative to tha MB-339.

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RE: New trainer jet fully composite - would you buy one? - 12/13/2012 9:38 AM   
mirce


 

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Status: online 		Hello Knock, I don't know what you mean under "delicate parts"...

All wing and fuselage ribs, landing gear plates, wing front pin, tip tank frames are cut on laser cut machine...
G 10 parts are cut on CNC router...
My friend carpenter in his workshop made wing joiner and spars.
Tip tanks and canopy will be vacuum formed. Tool for those part we made from our 3D drawings on 3 axes CNC router.

My proposal is to use Behotec landing gear set, because LG plates are made for that gears. We also will offer axles for those LG, because middle LG doors are fix on wheel axle.

Hope this will give some answers on your question...

Regards

Mirce

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