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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/13/2012 12:45 AM

t-max97

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ORIGINAL: Microz

Wow. This might actually be my first fuel rc car. Gas engines are much, much easier to tune/maintain/run than nitro engines right?

Yes but there's never been a gasoline engine quite like this one so we will see.lol

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/13/2012 2:39 AM

Microz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: t-max97

quote:

ORIGINAL: Microz

Wow. This might actually be my first fuel rc car. Gas engines are much, much easier to tune/maintain/run than nitro engines right?

Yes but there's never been a gasoline engine quite like this one so we will see.lol

Yep thats a good point right there lol.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/13/2012 4:47 AM

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Just in time for the next tax season

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/13/2012 11:14 AM

Foxy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

great news, he he he i bet there are some people feeling silly now. How many people thought they wouldent make one? come on admit it lol

I did. And I was proved right.

All of a sudden the engine has doubled in size. Definitely not the same thing that I was saying would never come to market.

I am still surprised that they followed up on it at all. And I'm still wondering what its place in the market will be. Going to be very difficult to price. Too high, people will just get 'real' gassers, lower price but not enough performance will mean people still turn to nitro or brushless. We shall see...

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/13/2012 11:27 AM

Foxy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: t-max97

quote:

ORIGINAL: Microz

Wow. This might actually be my first fuel rc car. Gas engines are much, much easier to tune/maintain/run than nitro engines right?

Yes but there's never been a gasoline engine quite like this one so we will see.lol

True, but certain characteristics are inherent to gas and will not be different than any other gas engine...

Spark plug instead of glow plug, much more sturdy and reliable.
Far lower combustion speed
Fuel is not inherently hygroscopic
Less affected by elevation and temperature
Ring and piston (probably) rather than piston and sleeve

Just from that we can discern that there will be less starting and tuning problems due to the fuel type and ignition source. They will obviously rev lower than nitro decreasing stress on moving parts, and after run oil (or other water dispersants) will not be required. Since it is also ring and piston design, extended break in should not be required either.

As for the actual sensitivity of tuning, that comes down to the carb...

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/13/2012 6:30 PM

t-max97

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: t-max97

quote:

ORIGINAL: Microz

Wow. This might actually be my first fuel rc car. Gas engines are much, much easier to tune/maintain/run than nitro engines right?

Yes but there's never been a gasoline engine quite like this one so we will see.lol

True, but certain characteristics are inherent to gas and will not be different than any other gas engine...

Spark plug instead of glow plug, much more sturdy and reliable.
Far lower combustion speed
Fuel is not inherently hygroscopic
Less affected by elevation and temperature
Ring and piston (probably) rather than piston and sleeve

Just from that we can discern that there will be less starting and tuning problems due to the fuel type and ignition source. They will obviously rev lower than nitro decreasing stress on moving parts, and after run oil (or other water dispersants) will not be required. Since it is also ring and piston design, extended break in should not be required either.

As for the actual sensitivity of tuning, that comes down to the carb...

Yeah it will probably be like most gas engines i just hope its not too expensive i reeeaaalllyyy want one lol.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/13/2012 8:10 PM

SyCo_VeNoM

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I just REeeeeely want the engine, and the electronic setup that goes with it to tinker with

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/13/2012 9:33 PM

Ttowntoolman

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If this has the exsisting 3 speed transmission and we normally use it with a 30,000 rpm engine, what happens when you only turn it 1/3rd the rpms with the lil gas engine? With the available gearing options and tire diameters I dont think we can really expect much from this set-up, or am I missing something you all have figured out already? Of coarse I am speculating the rpms of the new engine but really....am I missing something? Not trying to be a downer....just dont make sense to me.

I think this thing is still just a dangling carrot and will not be to market anytime soon.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/14/2012 12:15 AM

The Mad Modder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ttowntoolman

If this has the exsisting 3 speed transmission and we normally use it with a 30,000 rpm engine, what happens when you only turn it 1/3rd the rpms with the lil gas engine? With the available gearing options and tire diameters I dont think we can really expect much from this set-up, or am I missing something you all have figured out already? Of coarse I am speculating the rpms of the new engine but really....am I missing something? Not trying to be a downer....just dont make sense to me.

I think this thing is still just a dangling carrot and will not be to market anytime soon.

I would think that a new spur to clutch gear ratio would solve that.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/14/2012 12:21 AM

t-max97

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Mad Modder

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ttowntoolman

If this has the exsisting 3 speed transmission and we normally use it with a 30,000 rpm engine, what happens when you only turn it 1/3rd the rpms with the lil gas engine? With the available gearing options and tire diameters I dont think we can really expect much from this set-up, or am I missing something you all have figured out already? Of coarse I am speculating the rpms of the new engine but really....am I missing something? Not trying to be a downer....just dont make sense to me.

I think this thing is still just a dangling carrot and will not be to market anytime soon.

I would think that a new spur to pinion ratio would solve that.

Yup if it has the torque it should you could gear it higher.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/14/2012 12:25 AM

SyCo_VeNoM

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gogo 35t clutch bell, and 30 tooth spur

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/14/2012 5:32 AM

phmaximus

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I'm very keen to see how it goes

The O.S. Engines gt15hz 15cc gas engine will be 2.8hp

And the current savage K5.9 5.9cc nitro motor is said to be around 4hp....

Hummmm...

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/14/2012 5:41 AM

Haddi Taha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

I'm very keen to see how it goes

The O.S. Engines gt15hz 15cc gas engine will be 2.8hp

And the current savage K5.9 5.9cc nitro motor is said to be around 4hp....

Hummmm...

I am no engine expert but would it be apples and oranges comparing gas to nitro or is it ok?

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/14/2012 7:58 AM

Foxy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Mad Modder

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ttowntoolman

If this has the exsisting 3 speed transmission and we normally use it with a 30,000 rpm engine, what happens when you only turn it 1/3rd the rpms with the lil gas engine? With the available gearing options and tire diameters I dont think we can really expect much from this set-up, or am I missing something you all have figured out already? Of coarse I am speculating the rpms of the new engine but really....am I missing something? Not trying to be a downer....just dont make sense to me.

I think this thing is still just a dangling carrot and will not be to market anytime soon.

I would think that a new spur to clutch gear ratio would solve that.

If it has that kind of torque, there would be no benefit to having a 3 speed gearbox in the first place.

I remain sceptical as to its usability, without, lets say at least a 2 speed.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/14/2012 8:05 AM

Foxy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Haddi Taha

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

I'm very keen to see how it goes

The O.S. Engines gt15hz 15cc gas engine will be 2.8hp

And the current savage K5.9 5.9cc nitro motor is said to be around 4hp....

Hummmm...

I am no engine expert but would it be apples and oranges comparing gas to nitro or is it ok?

To answer both of you...

Firstly, dynamometers this size are unrefined technology, the market isn't big enough for someone to make a really accurate one. Then of course there's the fact that the test can be made under any possible conditions, the conditions aren't specified. Finally, 4hp is more than a 2200kv motor on 6S can provide, so I think its a ridiculous claim.

Haddi, you can use the same dyno and the same test to get figures from the gas engine, so the tests are theoretically comparable, but always remember, that the figure that is published is the peak horsepower. It might be in a 10 rev range before dropping off sharply.

The analogy I always give people who mention dyno numbers in relation to little engines is this: Which engine is better...

Engine 1: Makes 1 hp at 10,000rpm, makes 2hp at 20,000rpm and 3 hp at 30,000rpm then drops off (manufacturer states 3hp engine)
Engine 2: Makes .5hp 10,0000rpm, 1.5hp at 20,000rpm, and 3.5hp at 30,000rpm then drops off (manufacturer states 3.5hp engine)

Engine 1, of course, despite having the lower hp figure, it has a far more usable range and would perform better in reality. See why this stuff is just ridiculously subjective?

< Message edited by Foxy -- 12/14/2012 6:12 PM >

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/14/2012 9:16 AM

yakfish

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It has been discussed many times before. But manufactures HP claims are bunk. There is no standardized measurement for them adhere to. But I.amvery curious to see how this engine performs side by side with a nitro powered .28. I like how HPI says in their write up that this engine has increased power and torque, but doesn't say what that's compared to.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/14/2012 2:33 PM

steed2-inactive

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I am still thinking a decent .28 savage is going to spank this thing, even with the engine size doubled. I guess we will see.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/14/2012 2:41 PM

On2_n_On4

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I don't care if its faster or slower... as long as it has decent speed and reliability.
If I want speed I would get electric or a nitro on road car.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/15/2012 12:32 AM

phmaximus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Haddi Taha

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

I'm very keen to see how it goes

The O.S. Engines gt15hz 15cc gas engine will be 2.8hp

And the current savage K5.9 5.9cc nitro motor is said to be around 4hp....

Hummmm...

I am no engine expert but would it be apples and oranges comparing gas to nitro or is it ok?

To answer both of you...

Firstly, dynamometers this size are unrefined technology, the market isn't big enough for someone to make a really accurate one. Then of course there's the fact that the test can be made under any possible conditions, the conditions aren't specified. Finally, 4hp is more than a 2200kv motor on 6S can provide, so I think its a ridiculous claim.

Haddi, you can use the same dyno and the same test to get figures from the gas engine, so the tests are theoretically comparable, but always remember, that the figure that is published is the peak horsepower. It might be in a 10 rev range before dropping off sharply.

The analogy I always give people who mention dyno numbers in relation to little engines is this: Which engine is better...

Engine 1: Makes 1 hp at 10,000rpm, makes 2hp at 20,000rpm and 3 hp at 30,000rpm then drops off (manufacturer states 3hp engine)
Engine 2: Makes .5hp 10,0000rpm, 1.5hp at 20,000rpm, and 3.5hp at 30,000rpm then drops off (manufacturer states 3.5hp engine)

Engine 1, of course, despite having the lower hp figure, it has a far more usable range and would perform better in reality. See why this stuff is just ridiculously subjective?

I was doubtfully that there motor is neer 4hp too, lol
So true about dyno's, people should only look at average dyno's readings as a guid
Ahh but Both have there places, If u was running on a large open track or a oval racer I would want the 2nd motor
One thing ive learnt with bigger gass engines.. there is a lot to consider, it's a ballancing act from power to rpm.
I could get a light mod 26cc that's capable of pulling high rpm that would wind out down the main straight, but the thing is I like to turn in hard and drift a little. With that style of driving that motor would bog down comming out of the corner or might have enough grunt to hold a power slide. so maby I would be better to have the 30.5cc to get that extra torque? Or do I go to a 29cc that as more torque and good rpm?
Practical Rpm ranges are really tricky on a single geared power train with a narrow power band.

< Message edited by phmaximus -- 12/15/2012 4:17 AM >

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/15/2012 4:28 AM

phmaximus

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One thing I think that might go against it is the sound.

I've noticed gas motors sound slow when u hear them running because of there lower RPM, they don't screame along like a nitros

A few times watching gas 1/5 cars online, I've found I've had to mute the sound to really appreate how fast they are going.

For example. a real car doing 40 in first gear sounds faster than 40 in 3rd gear.
I don't know, have u guys ever noticed that? Wonder if there is a name for it? It's like a audiable illusion that can effect our perception of speed???

I dare say this new HPI gasser will suffer from that illusion.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/15/2012 5:02 AM

TheKennyKiller

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

great news, he he he i bet there are some people feeling silly now. How many people thought they wouldent make one? come on admit it lol

I did. And I was proved right.

All of a sudden the engine has doubled in size. Definitely not the same thing that I was saying would never come to market.

I am still surprised that they followed up on it at all. And I'm still wondering what its place in the market will be. Going to be very difficult to price. Too high, people will just get 'real' gassers, lower price but not enough performance will mean people still turn to nitro or brushless. We shall see...

I can't say I follow that logic, just because it's not the exact thing they were touting when it was in development doesn't make you right. It is still a gas engine on a 1/8 scale truck, no denying that.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/15/2012 5:27 AM

Haddi Taha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

One thing I think that might go against it is the sound.

I've noticed gas motors sound slow when u hear them running because of there lower RPM, they don't screame along like a nitros

A few times watching gas 1/5 cars online, I've found I've had to mute the sound to really appreate how fast they are going.

For example. a real car doing 40 in first gear sounds faster than 40 in 3rd gear.
I don't know, have u guys ever noticed that? Wonder if there is a name for it? It's like a audiable illusion that can effect our perception of speed???

I dare say this new HPI gasser will suffer from that illusion.

I think its because our mind is using sound to determine how much you have pulled the trigger, not how quickly it passes you

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/15/2012 11:23 AM

Foxy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKennyKiller

quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

great news, he he he i bet there are some people feeling silly now. How many people thought they wouldent make one? come on admit it lol

I did. And I was proved right.

All of a sudden the engine has doubled in size. Definitely not the same thing that I was saying would never come to market.

I am still surprised that they followed up on it at all. And I'm still wondering what its place in the market will be. Going to be very difficult to price. Too high, people will just get 'real' gassers, lower price but not enough performance will mean people still turn to nitro or brushless. We shall see...

I can't say I follow that logic, just because it's not the exact thing they were touting when it was in development doesn't make you right. It is still a gas engine on a 1/8 scale truck, no denying that.

The appropriate part bolded...

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/15/2012 12:57 PM

phmaximus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKennyKiller

quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

great news, he he he i bet there are some people feeling silly now. How many people thought they wouldent make one? come on admit it lol

I did. And I was proved right.

All of a sudden the engine has doubled in size. Definitely not the same thing that I was saying would never come to market.

I am still surprised that they followed up on it at all. And I'm still wondering what its place in the market will be. Going to be very difficult to price. Too high, people will just get 'real' gassers, lower price but not enough performance will mean people still turn to nitro or brushless. We shall see...

I can't say I follow that logic, just because it's not the exact thing they were touting when it was in development doesn't make you right. It is still a gas engine on a 1/8 scale truck, no denying that.

The appropriate part bolded...

Now now... Lol I was only joking, hey who knows if this motor gets a good return for hpi one day we might see that smaller engine.

Bit off topic what about a nitrous kit for one of these things?

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/16/2012 2:52 AM

TheKennyKiller

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheKennyKiller

quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

great news, he he he i bet there are some people feeling silly now. How many people thought they wouldent make one? come on admit it lol

I did. And I was proved right.

All of a sudden the engine has doubled in size. Definitely not the same thing that I was saying would never come to market.

I am still surprised that they followed up on it at all. And I'm still wondering what its place in the market will be. Going to be very difficult to price. Too high, people will just get 'real' gassers, lower price but not enough performance will mean people still turn to nitro or brushless. We shall see...

I can't say I follow that logic, just because it's not the exact thing they were touting when it was in development doesn't make you right. It is still a gas engine on a 1/8 scale truck, no denying that.

The appropriate part bolded...

The appropriate part bolded...

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