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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/17/2012 3:03 PM

Foxy

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You could argue with a brick couldn't you.

I never said a 1/8th car could not accept a gas engine.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/17/2012 10:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus
Bit off topic what about a nitrous kit for one of these things?

more interesting to me, what about turbo/supercharging? they dont work on nitro because they are 2 stroke, but if this is 4 stroke it should work right?

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/18/2012 12:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cumquat

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus
Bit off topic what about a nitrous kit for one of these things?

more interesting to me, what about turbo/supercharging? they dont work on nitro because they are 2 stroke, but if this is 4 stroke it should work right?

It's a 2stroke

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/18/2012 12:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Foxy

You could argue with a brick couldn't you.

I never said a 1/8th car could not accept a gas engine.

Lol, ahhhhhh but...

...but didn't say u were surprised,

does that mean u did not expect them to realese this engine?

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/18/2012 5:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cumquat

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus
Bit off topic what about a nitrous kit for one of these things?

more interesting to me, what about turbo/supercharging? they dont work on nitro because they are 2 stroke, but if this is 4 stroke it should work right?

2 strokes can be boosted....been done hundreds of times on the larger engines, nobody has perfected it on the smaller engines, but the theory is possible if someone wanted to commit the time to develop...

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/18/2012 10:06 PM

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No they can't, don't be silly. The bigger 2stroke engines are different

Check out RB innovations, they have supercharger kits for nitro motors. They work just not very well

< Message edited by phmaximus -- 12/18/2012 10:35 PM >

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/19/2012 5:24 AM

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let's not get into that debate again

i know it's possible, but it's not worth it.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/19/2012 2:41 PM

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quote:

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No they can't, don't be silly. The bigger 2stroke engines are different

Check out RB innovations, they have supercharger kits for nitro motors. They work just not very well

big 2 strokes are no different.......... your theory on why 2 strokes cant be boosted is completely wrong and I have proven that multiple times now..... a 2 stroke is a 2 stroke.....if one can be boosted they all can be boosted..

I will do a test on my dyno soon... I will inject air thru the carb and measure the results...........I Am sure I am going to find that the more air I inject, the more HP the engine will make...... Keep in mind this is very low priority for me so I wont be rushing to do it tomorrow...., but I do plan to do it sometime relatively soon

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/19/2012 3:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

No they can't, don't be silly. The bigger 2stroke engines are different

Check out RB innovations, they have supercharger kits for nitro motors. They work just not very well

big 2 strokes are no different.......... your theory on why 2 strokes cant be boosted is completely wrong and I have proven that multiple times now..... a 2 stroke is a 2 stroke.....if one can be boosted they all can be boosted..

I will do a test on my dyno soon... I will inject air thru the carb and measure the results...........I Am sure I am going to find that the more air I inject, the more HP the engine will make...... Keep in mind this is very low priority for me so I wont be rushing to do it tomorrow...., but I do plan to do it sometime relatively soon

but wouldn't that be the same as just leaning the engine out?
Only saying my guess would be it will blow more fuel out the rear, and act as it being leaned out as both ports are open.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/20/2012 12:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

No they can't, don't be silly. The bigger 2stroke engines are different

Check out RB innovations, they have supercharger kits for nitro motors. They work just not very well

big 2 strokes are no different.......... your theory on why 2 strokes cant be boosted is completely wrong and I have proven that multiple times now..... a 2 stroke is a 2 stroke.....if one can be boosted they all can be boosted..

I will do a test on my dyno soon... I will inject air thru the carb and measure the results...........I Am sure I am going to find that the more air I inject, the more HP the engine will make...... Keep in mind this is very low priority for me so I wont be rushing to do it tomorrow...., but I do plan to do it sometime relatively soon

Interesting.... I don't think blowing air is going to help much, u need to supply more fuel too.
If U manage to get more air in than what escapes out the exhaust port u might get some positive pressure.
But I suspect the carby won't let any fuel if it's got a high pressure right up the Venturi
U could make a turbo from a keying, but I'm doubtfull it would even spool up to anything like the engines rpm without failing.
How would u lubricate the turbo? A draw through carb setup might work? But it won't atomize the fuel as well.

IMO a reliable turbo setup will have the exact same problems that are associated with boosting a nitro motor that the supercharging kits are having.

Keep us updated, have u seen the turbo helicopter?

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/20/2012 1:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

No they can't, don't be silly. The bigger 2stroke engines are different

Check out RB innovations, they have supercharger kits for nitro motors. They work just not very well

big 2 strokes are no different.......... your theory on why 2 strokes cant be boosted is completely wrong and I have proven that multiple times now..... a 2 stroke is a 2 stroke.....if one can be boosted they all can be boosted..

I will do a test on my dyno soon... I will inject air thru the carb and measure the results...........I Am sure I am going to find that the more air I inject, the more HP the engine will make...... Keep in mind this is very low priority for me so I wont be rushing to do it tomorrow...., but I do plan to do it sometime relatively soon

Interesting.... I don't think blowing air is going to help much, u need to supply more fuel too.
If U manage to get more air in than what escapes out the exhaust port u might get some positive pressure.
But I suspect the carby won't let any fuel if it's got a high pressure right up the Venturi
U could make a turbo from a keying, but I'm doubtfull it would even spool up to anything like the engines rpm without failing.
How would u lubricate the turbo? A draw through carb setup might work? But it won't atomize the fuel as well.

IMO a reliable turbo setup will have the exact same problems that are associated with boosting a nitro motor that the supercharging kits are having.

Keep us updated, have u seen the turbo helicopter?

carbs inject fuel according to the mass of air passing thru them...pas more air thru a carb and it will automatically pick up more fuel........

got anything else ?

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/20/2012 3:43 PM

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Sooo...back to the HPI gassers. Neat looking truck. 3 speed will be different. Migght go as fast as a nitro Savage, only cause it's pushing less than half the rpm's.

(The nitro motors are too small and sensitive to just keep adding fuel and air into the combustion chamber. It's gonna either blow, or just quit)

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/20/2012 10:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

No they can't, don't be silly. The bigger 2stroke engines are different

Check out RB innovations, they have supercharger kits for nitro motors. They work just not very well

big 2 strokes are no different.......... your theory on why 2 strokes cant be boosted is completely wrong and I have proven that multiple times now..... a 2 stroke is a 2 stroke.....if one can be boosted they all can be boosted..

I will do a test on my dyno soon... I will inject air thru the carb and measure the results...........I Am sure I am going to find that the more air I inject, the more HP the engine will make...... Keep in mind this is very low priority for me so I wont be rushing to do it tomorrow...., but I do plan to do it sometime relatively soon

Interesting.... I don't think blowing air is going to help much, u need to supply more fuel too.
If U manage to get more air in than what escapes out the exhaust port u might get some positive pressure.
But I suspect the carby won't let any fuel if it's got a high pressure right up the Venturi
U could make a turbo from a keying, but I'm doubtfull it would even spool up to anything like the engines rpm without failing.
How would u lubricate the turbo? A draw through carb setup might work? But it won't atomize the fuel as well.

IMO a reliable turbo setup will have the exact same problems that are associated with boosting a nitro motor that the supercharging kits are having.

Keep us updated, have u seen the turbo helicopter?

carbs inject fuel according to the mass of air passing thru them...pas more air thru a carb and it will automatically pick up more fuel........

got anything else ?

Lmao, u obviously don't know how a carby works, good Luck with that

This is a little bit funny, in ur mind how do u think the carby "injects" the fuel? I think u are confused with the accelerator pump on larger carbys or are u talking about Single point injection? Either way Rc cars don't have those features anyway
If u want to debating this with someone that's studied this for 4 years and is a fully qualified mechanic, with experance with blow through, draw through, MPI, CPI turbocharged engines. Maby u should start new thread, because personally I don't believe u will ever Make a turbo setup will u?

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/21/2012 6:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

No they can't, don't be silly. The bigger 2stroke engines are different

Check out RB innovations, they have supercharger kits for nitro motors. They work just not very well

big 2 strokes are no different.......... your theory on why 2 strokes cant be boosted is completely wrong and I have proven that multiple times now..... a 2 stroke is a 2 stroke.....if one can be boosted they all can be boosted..

I will do a test on my dyno soon... I will inject air thru the carb and measure the results...........I Am sure I am going to find that the more air I inject, the more HP the engine will make...... Keep in mind this is very low priority for me so I wont be rushing to do it tomorrow...., but I do plan to do it sometime relatively soon

Interesting.... I don't think blowing air is going to help much, u need to supply more fuel too.
If U manage to get more air in than what escapes out the exhaust port u might get some positive pressure.
But I suspect the carby won't let any fuel if it's got a high pressure right up the Venturi
U could make a turbo from a keying, but I'm doubtfull it would even spool up to anything like the engines rpm without failing.
How would u lubricate the turbo? A draw through carb setup might work? But it won't atomize the fuel as well.

IMO a reliable turbo setup will have the exact same problems that are associated with boosting a nitro motor that the supercharging kits are having.

Keep us updated, have u seen the turbo helicopter?

carbs inject fuel according to the mass of air passing thru them...pas more air thru a carb and it will automatically pick up more fuel........

got anything else ?

Lmao, u obviously don't know how a carby works, good Luck with that
This is a little bit funny, in ur mind how do u think the carby ''injects'' the fuel? I think u are confused with the accelerator pump on larger carbys or are u talking about Single point injection? Either way Rc cars don't have those features anyway
If u want to debating this with someone that's studied this for 4 years and is a fully qualified mechanic, with experance with blow through, draw through, MPI, CPI turbocharged engines. Maby u should start new thread, because personally I don't believe u will ever Make a turbo setup will u?

I Am not confused one bit....maybe not using the best analogy, but not confused....

< Message edited by supertib -- 12/21/2012 7:07 AM >

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/21/2012 7:01 AM

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Just to add...

these carbs work exactly the same as a single stage airbrush......... the needle position sets the paint to air ratio, and the overall air volume controls the overall paint volume....Spray with 5 PIS then spray with 10 PSI And you will see 10 PSI deposits double the amount of paint 5 PSI did....these carbs work in exactly the same fashion...more air = more paint...or more air = more fuel....... So if in theory we double the air volume passing thru the carb by boosting the engine we will also see a doubling of the fuel volume passing thru the carb into the engine..... Heck my cousin even used to do nitrous shots right thru the carb of his sled with no extra fuel enrichment....same concept...These carbs are just like a airbrush...consider how the changing of the needles and airflow affects the airbrush and that is how it will affect the carb.....

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/21/2012 8:03 AM

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Also to add..I have no intention of building a turbo system.... However I can test the rheory of boosting a nitro, as I do own a extremely accurate dyno system....

how I would test the theory of boosting a nitro is I would make a plenum box that the engine would breath from, I would then control the plenun pressure using a regulator I have on my shops air system...I would then runt he engine on the dyno testing the affects of increasing the inlet pressure.......I believe that increasing the inlet pressure would also increase the HP of the engine..to monito pressure I would install a guage on the plenum.... Would be very simple for me to do this

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/21/2012 11:44 AM

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Because race car.

< Message edited by TheKennyKiller -- 12/21/2012 3:58 PM >

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/21/2012 3:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

Just to add...

these carbs work exactly the same as a single stage airbrush......... the needle position sets the paint to air ratio, and the overall air volume controls the overall paint volume....Spray with 5 PIS then spray with 10 PSI And you will see 10 PSI deposits double the amount of paint 5 PSI did....these carbs work in exactly the same fashion...more air = more paint...or more air = more fuel....... So if in theory we double the air volume passing thru the carb by boosting the engine we will also see a doubling of the fuel volume passing thru the carb into the engine..... Heck my cousin even used to do nitrous shots right thru the carb of his sled with no extra fuel enrichment....same concept...These carbs are just like a airbrush...consider how the changing of the needles and airflow affects the airbrush and that is how it will affect the carb.....

I may be wrong but the needle only lets a certain amount of fuel in the carb, how would letting more air in let more fuel in?

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/21/2012 4:35 PM

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You have to have the perfect ratio for each if you are going to increase one of them. If you increase fuel, you must increase air, and vise versa. That's why you tune it, to get the perfect air:fuel ratio. I do believe you can "boost" these little motors, but the power gain would be so minimal, if any, you probably wouldn't see it. They are just too small of a compression chamber. That's all I am going to say, and that is the end answer to all the arguments on this forum about boosting these little motors before they get shut down.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/21/2012 5:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: t-max97

quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

Just to add...

these carbs work exactly the same as a single stage airbrush......... the needle position sets the paint to air ratio, and the overall air volume controls the overall paint volume....Spray with 5 PIS then spray with 10 PSI And you will see 10 PSI deposits double the amount of paint 5 PSI did....these carbs work in exactly the same fashion...more air = more paint...or more air = more fuel....... So if in theory we double the air volume passing thru the carb by boosting the engine we will also see a doubling of the fuel volume passing thru the carb into the engine..... Heck my cousin even used to do nitrous shots right thru the carb of his sled with no extra fuel enrichment....same concept...These carbs are just like a airbrush...consider how the changing of the needles and airflow affects the airbrush and that is how it will affect the carb.....

I may be wrong but the needle only lets a certain amount of fuel in the carb, how would letting more air in let more fuel in?

You might want to consider why most of these mico motors have replaceable Venturis.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/21/2012 9:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: t-max97

quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

Just to add...

these carbs work exactly the same as a single stage airbrush......... the needle position sets the paint to air ratio, and the overall air volume controls the overall paint volume....Spray with 5 PIS then spray with 10 PSI And you will see 10 PSI deposits double the amount of paint 5 PSI did....these carbs work in exactly the same fashion...more air = more paint...or more air = more fuel....... So if in theory we double the air volume passing thru the carb by boosting the engine we will also see a doubling of the fuel volume passing thru the carb into the engine..... Heck my cousin even used to do nitrous shots right thru the carb of his sled with no extra fuel enrichment....same concept...These carbs are just like a airbrush...consider how the changing of the needles and airflow affects the airbrush and that is how it will affect the carb.....

I may be wrong but the needle only lets a certain amount of fuel in the carb, how would letting more air in let more fuel in?

it is a venturi valve....the more air that passes over it, the more fluid is picked up...the volume of fluid picked up is directly proportional to the the volume of air passing over the venturi........... just think how a airbrush works...... this is all that these carbs are, they are like a airbrush spraying fuel into the engine..... The further you push down on the trigger the more paint is sprayed out....... increase the operating air pressure of the airbrush and you will see the paint volume is sprays go up proportionately to the increase in air pressure....... The greater the pressure differential between the inlet and the crankcase the more fuel gets drawn into the engine.... If we double the inlet pressure we will also double the fuel volume..........

with a controlled test using a pressurized plenum I predict a dramatic increase in HP..... We double the inlet pressure will will nearly double the engines output.... I have no question of that.......... However this will only prove that these engines can be boosted, however making a turbo or supercharger that actually can produce useable boost is a entrely different story...... I will happily build a pressurized plenum and run it on the dyno tho as a proof of concept...

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/21/2012 9:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

quote:

ORIGINAL: t-max97

quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

Just to add...

these carbs work exactly the same as a single stage airbrush......... the needle position sets the paint to air ratio, and the overall air volume controls the overall paint volume....Spray with 5 PIS then spray with 10 PSI And you will see 10 PSI deposits double the amount of paint 5 PSI did....these carbs work in exactly the same fashion...more air = more paint...or more air = more fuel....... So if in theory we double the air volume passing thru the carb by boosting the engine we will also see a doubling of the fuel volume passing thru the carb into the engine..... Heck my cousin even used to do nitrous shots right thru the carb of his sled with no extra fuel enrichment....same concept...These carbs are just like a airbrush...consider how the changing of the needles and airflow affects the airbrush and that is how it will affect the carb.....

I may be wrong but the needle only lets a certain amount of fuel in the carb, how would letting more air in let more fuel in?

it is a venturi valve....the more air that passes over it, the more fluid is picked up...the volume of fluid picked up is directly proportional to the the volume of air passing over the venturi........... just think how a airbrush works...... this is all that these carbs are, they are like a airbrush spraying fuel into the engine..... The further you push down on the trigger the more paint is sprayed out....... increase the operating air pressure of the airbrush and you will see the paint volume is sprays go up proportionately to the increase in air pressure....... The greater the pressure differential between the inlet and the crankcase the more fuel gets drawn into the engine.... If we double the inlet pressure we will also double the fuel volume..........

with a controlled test using a pressurized plenum I predict a dramatic increase in HP..... We double the inlet pressure will will nearly double the engines output.... I have no question of that.......... However this will only prove that these engines can be boosted, however making a turbo or supercharger that actually can produce useable boost is a entrely different story...... I will happily build a pressurized plenum and run it on the dyno tho as a proof of concept...

Oh ok I see what your saying, I just wasnt sure.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/22/2012 9:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

No they can't, don't be silly. The bigger 2stroke engines are different

Check out RB innovations, they have supercharger kits for nitro motors. They work just not very well

big 2 strokes are no different.......... your theory on why 2 strokes cant be boosted is completely wrong and I have proven that multiple times now..... a 2 stroke is a 2 stroke.....if one can be boosted they all can be boosted..

I will do a test on my dyno soon... I will inject air thru the carb and measure the results...........I Am sure I am going to find that the more air I inject, the more HP the engine will make...... Keep in mind this is very low priority for me so I wont be rushing to do it tomorrow...., but I do plan to do it sometime relatively soon

'Injecting air' is not the same as 'boosting'. These small engines cannot be turbo charged because the power loss through the turbo is greater than any gain. The super chargers are still up in the air, but they're not even built/designed good enough to create the least bit of manifold pressure. They're a gimmick.

In theory, yes, it's possible... but so far, they don't do ****, and have been proven not to do ****. Engines also do not scale well. Just because something works on a larger engine, does not mean it will work on a smaller engine.

Also, you point out the ventury in the carburetor. You're missing on little aspect. The manifold pressure. The carburetor will be pressurized, keeping adequate fuel from being pulled through the spraybar. This is a major problem on full sized blow through turbo set ups. Vacuum (choke) pulls in more fuel, pressure will do the opposite. Venturies also only work on one direction. Pushing air through one is not the same as pulling it through, what the carburetor is normally designed for.

Yeah, you'll probably see a little jump by forcing compressed air into the carburetor, but it won't be replicable within a closed system.

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RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/22/2012 10:19 PM

supertib

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quote:

ORIGINAL: proanti1

quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

quote:

ORIGINAL: phmaximus

No they can't, don't be silly. The bigger 2stroke engines are different

Check out RB innovations, they have supercharger kits for nitro motors. They work just not very well

big 2 strokes are no different.......... your theory on why 2 strokes cant be boosted is completely wrong and I have proven that multiple times now..... a 2 stroke is a 2 stroke.....if one can be boosted they all can be boosted..

I will do a test on my dyno soon... I will inject air thru the carb and measure the results...........I Am sure I am going to find that the more air I inject, the more HP the engine will make...... Keep in mind this is very low priority for me so I wont be rushing to do it tomorrow...., but I do plan to do it sometime relatively soon

'Injecting air' is not the same as 'boosting'. These small engines cannot be turbo charged because the power loss through the turbo is greater than any gain. The super chargers are still up in the air, but they're not even built/designed good enough to create the least bit of manifold pressure. They're a gimmick.

In theory, yes, it's possible... but so far, they don't do ****, and have been proven not to do ****. Engines also do not scale well. Just because something works on a larger engine, does not mean it will work on a smaller engine.

Also, you point out the ventury in the carburetor. You're missing on little aspect. The manifold pressure. The carburetor will be pressurized, keeping adequate fuel from being pulled through the spraybar. This is a major problem on full sized blow through turbo set ups. Vacuum (choke) pulls in more fuel, pressure will do the opposite. Venturies also only work on one direction. Pushing air through one is not the same as pulling it through, what the carburetor is normally designed for.

Yeah, you'll probably see a little jump by forcing compressed air into the carburetor, but it won't be replicable within a closed system.

I think your misunderstanding how the carb even works in the first place...air is always pushed into the carb..it is never sucked into the carb.....Our atmosphere is at 14 PSI , abd the crankcase is substantially lower, which results in air being pushed into the carb by the pressure of our atmosphere...it is not sucked in as you are saying...The air that our engines ingest is actually pushed in by the 14.7 PSI of our atmosphere........... So we can safely say these engines operate normally with 14.7 PSI of inlet pressure........... I will double the inlet pressure to 25.4 PSI and see what happens..... the carb will function in the exact same manner...it wont care ... Air will be pushed in by 25é4 PSI instead of 14.7 PSI...the same physics apply......

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Post #: 74

RE: HPI GASSERS!!!!! - 12/22/2012 11:16 PM

phmaximus

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what?????? wow ive been busy for a few days, and come back to this lol

are u serious??? behind the throtte plated at anything appart from WOT, there is a lower air pressure than atmosphere pressure. we all know that.

u could say the air is been pushed or u could say its been sucked in. I dont know any one that says its pushed in, 99% of people would say because the engine creats its own low pressure and the atmosphere is relatively constant, but really its just a play on words aint it?
I can only assume u think the same about a vaccume cleaner?????
what about when i breath, same thing??? I would assume not
"no im not breathing by sucking in air. im breathing by opening up my lungs and letting the air get pushed in"???????????

brb coffee break

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