WWII ETO Armor; interesting read at this site: http://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/pool.lafayette.htm

Including a Comparison of Lafayette Pool and Germany's Michael Wittmann

By Stephen 'Cookie' Sewell
Museum Ordnance Magazine
September 1993

Sitting at a table on behalf of The Ordnance Museum Foundation, Inc., here at Aberdeen Proving Ground on Armed Forces Day 1993, I noticed that a great number of people are believers in myths that surround the German Army of World War II. Many of the people who stopped by had a number of negative comments about the perceived "lack of interest" by the museum in their favorite German tanks and the reasons they were so significant. (It must be noted that the charter of the ordnance Museum is to preserve the history of the development of American ordnance and armored vehicles, and to include significant foreign developments where possible.)

I believe it was Abraham Lincoln who is credited with the quote. "It is easy to defeat a lie with the truth; it is much harder to kill a myth." Of the many comments that were made to us about the mythology surrounding the German armored vehicles, I would like to address certain issues from other points of view in this short article.

Myth #1
The Greatest Tank of the Second
World War was the Tiger I.

Oh? Why? Maybe the best KNOWN overall, and the most notorious, but far from the greatest. This tank was designed as a 30-ton tank (later upgraded to 45 tons) but still came in between 56
and 62 tons; it was underpowered and poorly suited for any kind of mobility battle. Tanks are weapons of the offensive; this tank was not equipped for that type of warfare (remember Blitzkrieg?), nor was it well suited for "cornfield meets" at 500 meters or less.

The Russians were very respectful of the Tiger, but they were also under no illusions as to its combat potential. Their tactics - charge until you are inside the 500-meter range where the T-34's 76mm gun could penetrate the sides or rear of the Tiger - were born out of the desperation of having many more tanks than the enemy but with a less powerful cannon (until 1943) that forced them to adapt. Once the T-34/85 and the IS series of tanks appeared, the Tiger was treated as the dinosaur that it was.

Tanks like the Tiger were designed to combat tanks like the Soviet KV series. Were it not for the KV, it is doubtful the Tiger, as we know it, would have ever developed.

Myth #2
The Panther was the Best All Around
Tank of the Second World War.

Strike Two. The Panther only came about because the German leadership suffered a bout of "NIH" syndrome (Not Invented Here) and ignored the pleas of commanders like Guderian to simply reverse-engineer and adapt the T-34 for German production. As a result, it had a higher silhouette than any Soviet tank, a gasoline engine, and a very weak running gear system that plagued the tank during its combat career.

To give the Panther its due, it carried the hardest hitting 75mm gun of the Second World War; this weapon contributed heavily to French thinking after the war and was the basic weapon chosen to be developed into the 75mm autoloader cannon in the EBR 75 and AMX 13. Its armor was thicker than the T-34 and the Sherman, but it was not well designed; D and A models had a marvelous shot-trap beneath the mantlet that was used to ricochet AP shells down into the thin roof where they would kill the driver and bow gunner.

Reliability was poor - the vehicle was not noted for its ability to conduct long road marches, and the Soviets enjoyed the fact that they could not get captured models to make a simple 200-kilometer road march without breakdown. This was partially due to the poor suspension design (interleaved road wheels) and partially to the conditions under which the tank was used. This tank was also over its targeted weight limit and to the Soviets was a joke - a medium tank that weighed only one ton less than their heavy tanks and did not have the mobility, reliability, or overall useful firepower of the IS-2.

Tanks excel based on balance: the Panther had superior firepower, good armor protection, and poor mobility. That's not balance.

Myth #3
The Tiger II was the Most Influential
Tank of the Second World War.

On what and by who? The Tiger II was a desperate design of overkill that combined the design of the Panther with the concept of the Tiger and wound up with a 68-ton tank that had the worst deployability of any tank of the war (one has to keep things like bridges and roads in mind when designing tanks!!).

If the Tiger II was so influential, then what was its legacy? Surely no tanks were designed to copy its features. It used the classic German balanced layout of transmission front-engine rear which all other countries ditched for either cross drive or "guitar" transverse engine and transmission layouts. It used massive weight of armor for protection which only added to its troubles; being "Sherman-proof" from the front does you no good if you can't catch the little devils.

The Tiger II was also a victim of the late war German economy. It had no real reliability due to the fact that its rubber-hubbed wheels tended to flex under load and, placing uneven strain on the tracks, tended to snap links at the hinges. Like the Tiger I before it, this is a desperation defensive weapon that did not give them advantages.

Finally, even the Soviets had no fear of this tank. The first one they encountered in combat during 1944 was immediately knocked out by a T-34/85; the Soviets made capital over the fact that one of Porsche's sons was the commander of the vehicle and was killed instantly by the shell. (They felt at the time he was most responsible for the Tiger series; it was only after the war when the captured the Nibelungenwerke that they found out Edward Anders of Henschel had more to do with heavy tanks design than Ferdinand Porsche.)

A far more influential tank of the war was the Soviet IS-3; this inspired much more Cold War mythos of its own and was directly responsible for a number of US and foreign designs, as well as the US Ml03 and British Conqueror programs to defeat it on postulated European battlefields.

Myth #4
Michael Wittmann was the Greatest Tank
Commander of the Second World War.

This is a subject of even more speculation. Wittmann was no doubt brave and skillful, and he is given credit for a great deal of prowess on the battlefield. His score is listed as 138 tanks and 132 anti-tank guns destroyed in a career stretching from June 1941 to August 1944. While awarded every major German combat award up to the Swords for the Knight's Cross (Germany's second highest combat decoration), it should be pointed out that he was an unrepentant Nazi who had joined the Party in 1937 and was posted to SS units.

Lacking good Information on Soviet tanks aces (which do not appear to be many due to a very short life in many units), my personal counterclaim to the title of greatest tanker of the war would be an American staff sergeant named Lafayette G. Pool who, while operating a 76mm Sherman, managed to destroy 258 enemy vehicles between 27 June 1944 and 15 September 1944. This is a far greater achievement than Wittmann's, and given the relative merits of each man's case puts him in a better position to be the supreme "over-achiever" of the war.

To compare them, they have many things in common and many things that differentiate them. Both chose armor as a branch. Wittmann joining the SS Llebstandarte Adolph Hitler Division in 1939 and Pool the 40th Armored Regiment in 1941. Both men had taken punishment and it showed - Wittmann, a shell explosion that sliced up his face and body, and Pool, a few "souvenirs" as a Golden Gloves champ in Texas. Both were skilled in tactics and use of their respective tanks, and both were excellent at small unit leadership.

Wittmann is best associated as a company commander from the 2nd Company of SS Panzer Abteilung 501. Pool was only associated in combat with the 3rd Platoon, "I" Company, 3rd Battalion, 32nd Armored Regiment, 3rd US Armored Division. Wittmann is best known in his Tiger I number 805 from the 501st. Pool's tank (he went through three in his short career) was always named IN THE MOOD; it was a 76mm M4A1 WSS Sherman. Both men had a personal hold on their crew members and remained close where possible. Wittmann kept the same gunner, SS Oberscharfuehrer Balthasar Woll, through the war. Pool also kept the same crew: CPL Wilbert "Red" Richards, driver; PFC Bert Close, assistant driver/bow gunner; CPL Willis Oiler, gunner; and T/5 Del Boggs, loader.

Both men fought their tanks to their best advantage. For Wittmann, this was using either ambush or a slow advance with the heavy firepower of the Tiger's 88mm gun and its massive frontal armor limiting enemy responses. Pool, on the other hand, was noted for moving right into the enemy and mixing it up. When one considers that his favorite foe appears to have been the Panther - never a good choice to take on with any Sherman at any range - the fact that he only lost three tanks in combat, while racking up the score that he did, seems all the more remarkable.

However, the two men ended their combat careers in different ways. Wittmann with a whimper and Pool with a bang. Wittmann appears to have been killed in a series of Allied air raids called Operation Totalize; he never had a chance to fight back, and his company and his tank were destroyed in the bombing. Pool found out the hard way that "three's the charm" and, while functioning as the "spearhead" of the Spearhead Division south of Aachen, Germany, tried to shoot it out with more Panthers. This time Pool lost and the Sherman backed into a ditch and rolled over after two 75mm shells hit the tank. The four crew members survived with minor wounds, but Pool was blown out of the turret and wounded badly enough to require being medivaced; he was sent home to convalesce and survived the war.

Wittmann was undoubtedly the best that the Germans had, but his time in combat (as a tank commander) was something in excess of 25 months. Pool was only in combat for 80 days (21 engagements). Based on time, equipment, and accomplishment, Lafayette Pool is a better call for the best tanker of the war.

Bibliography:

McLemore, Dwight C.; The Career of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Michel Wittmann. AFV-G2 Vol. 2, No. 5, January 1972.

Spearhead in the West: The 3rd Armored Division 1941-45. Reprinted by Battery Press, 1980.

Popov, N.S. (Editor); Konstruktor Boevykh Mashin (Combat Vehicle Designer). Lenizdat, 1988.

Ibragimov, D.S.; Protivoborstvo (The Opposition). DOSAAF Publishing, 1989.

von Senger und Etterlin, F.M.; German Tanks of World War II. Stackpole Books, 1969.

Zaloga, Steven J. and Grandsen, James; Soviet Tanks and Combat Vehicles of World War Two. Arms and Armour Press, 1984.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcleo

The Ordnance Museum Foundation, Inc., Aberdeen Proving Ground (that big rusting tank farm)

quote:

However, the two men ended their combat careers in different ways. Wittmann with a whimper and Pool with a bang. Wittmann appears to have been killed in a series of Allied air raids called Operation Totalize; he never had a chance to fight back, and his company and his tank were destroyed in the bombing. 

MICHAEL WITTMANN AND THE WAFFEN SS TIGER COMMANDERS OF THE LEIBSTANDARTE IN WWII, Vol. 1 & 2 (Stackpole Military History) [Paperbacks]

quote:

ORIGINAL: tomhugill

Ive been around enough to know when not to feed a fairly poor troll.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcleo


Or did Wittmann's death actually happen earlier, under Allied carpet bombing and was covered up to maintain Wittmann's status as a WWII German people's hero.

Who knows?

The important point is 3rd Armor does not rate Wittmann highly, because of his Nat-Zee SS values (really now, who would?).

And why would 3rd Armor respect him, they were WWII mortal enemies. They were the good Americans sent to destroy the very evil, naughty and bad krauts .

Happy New Years, John

PS The Canadian tankers were brilliant in the ETO, agreed...

Myth #1
The Greatest Tank of the Second
World War was the Tiger I.

The Tiger was a conglomeration of projects, as tank design often is, including those of the Sherman, Pershing, T-34 and the modern Challenger. All are made from bits and pieces from previous projects and sometimes completely different designs. 

For it's size and weight the Tiger was a very mobile piece of equipment, it was able to keep pace with the Panzer III and IV which is what it was designed to do. Tigers were often used to breech Soviet defensive positions, recon in force so they were not just a defensive weapon. 

As a tank it was a successful design that was still as deadly in 1945 as it was when first deployed. Few other tanks in the entire war can say the same. 

Myth #2
The Panther was the Best All Around
Tank of the Second World War.

There were no pleas, Guderian sent a message saying they were being out gunned by Soviet tank forces and asked for the designers and the people in control to come to the Eastern Front and talk to the men about what was needed. The T-34 was re-designed and the German version was the VK3002 (DB), I believe it was also fitted with a diesel engine. While the tank had great potential as well as the ability to be upgunned as needed it was seen too far a departure from current German design so the second design, the Panther won through. 

Was the Panther plagued with reliability problems? Yes like nearly every tank design released during the war the tank had issues. The Panther had a very limited testing span to rule out these problems and many tanks had the same issues including the Soviet T-34 which used to hump it with spare transmissions and other parts on the motor deck. Did the Panther's reliability improve over time, yes it did. The "Shot trap" problem was resolved by a simple redesign. 

None of the German tanks were designed for "long road marches" that is why they were all designed to meet railway width specifications. It was also one of the reasons petrol was chosen as the overall MPG wasn't a huge issue. 

"the poor suspension design (interleaved road wheels)" The road wheel design helped reduce ground pressure. Less ground pressure means increased mobility. The German tanks were all fairly mobile vehicles with tight turning circles. The actual suspension design was torsion bar which was one of the best designs used long after WW2. The problem with the road wheel design was nothing to do with mobility or performance but one of servicing. 

The tanks were not designed for balance, it is not a computer game. Each country had specific attributes for their designs based on their current armoured doctrine. Which is why the first German post war tank had good mobility and firepower but very little armour. Having a balance would mean less of everything. The difference being in modern tanks with lightweight armour systems, and civilian infrastructure designed to take weight can be better "balanced". 

Myth #3
The Tiger II was the Most Influential
Tank of the Second World War.

And why was the IS-3 designed? I have never read, in the large number of publications I have actually read, those words so not sure where it came from. The Soviets knocked out some Tiger II's, by a T-34 85 but if it is the encounter you are talking about the Tiger II's were stopped at rest with the crews disembarked. Hardly compelling evidence that the tank was flawed. 

The IS-3 had a good frontal ballistic shape but otherwise was a very poor design. 

Myth #4
Michael Wittmann was the Greatest Tank
Commander of the Second World War.

Wittmann was a Panzer Ace, his abilities are not in question. He is famous for the battle Villars Bocage which was an immense risk taken by himself and an absolute shoddy example of poor military intelligence and leadership on the case of the British. Ultimately though, his actions there had little impact on the forthcoming battle or the area in general. 

The cause of his death is mute, there is a lot of contradictory evidence and the true fact of the matter is, who really cares? I've never really understood peoples fascination with him. 

You can't really compare tank kills between German and Allied forces for a couple of reasons. Most of the high tally Panzer Aces were stationed on the Eastern Front where the mass Soviet charge was in effect. A large number of these kills were made using superior tanks, although Wittman and Carius no doubt were able to take out a few AFV's in their respective StuG and 38(t) its unlikely a significant portion of their kills were made in them.

Very few allied vehicles were able to combat German tanks and for the most part they saw limited action with them. More HE shells were fired than AP, and many US tank destroyers were employed as gun batteries for infantry support rather for hunting out enemy armour. 

The last point is that by the time they had AFV's capable of destroying enemy armour they already had air superiority.   

One thing I will say is, while I do not think or would not say that all my customers are closet Nazi's. There does seem to be a very small portion of the hobby who are a little too into the SS. To the point where they will try to defend the various actions undertaken during the war. 

This is not limited to the 1/16th scale but also to the 1/6th scale where SS insignia and uniforms sell out faster than the normal wehrmacht. I suspect these people would be into the SS even if they were not into tanks or military history.

Personally? I am a man, I like toys. I like guns, tanks, cars and computers. I like offshore oil installations. The people I am not so interested in. I am also keen on military history as it forms a very important part of the human race in general. From when we went out and bashed our neighbours in with clubs so to have more furry animals to ourselves to WW2 and beyond.