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Excess heat during break in - KE25 - 12/17/2012 12:45 AM   
ScoobyDoo22


 

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From: Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Hi hopefully this hasn't been covered somewhere else but I've read miles of forums and still aren't sure. I'm a newbie to nitro and have a Kyosho inferno with the KE25 motor. I've been doing the break in using the heat cycle method but it seems to be getting way too hot. I've read all the instructions and they say try to get the temp to between 190-210, but it's sitting at 250f at idle and between 250-300 driving round at 1/4 throttle for 2 seconds at a time. Tried richening the HSN but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Plenty of smoke, and it's dripping oil out the exhaust so don't think it's too lean!

Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong, or should i just throw away the temp gun!?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

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RE: Excess heat during break in - KE25 - 12/17/2012 6:25 AM   
HerrSavage


 

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Status: offline 		Good chance the temp gun is off.. Basically, if the engine is at an acceptable temp, if you spit down in the hole it should slowly sizzle away in like five seconds or so.. if it's too hot it will sizzle away immediately.. That's the "spit test"..

Trying a different heat gun would be good too..

Byond that, if it really is that hot, first off, have you touched the LSN or HSN? Are the needles flush? Is your idle good? Maybe try a cooler plug.. Could try making a video clip.. Might make it easier to help..

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RE: Excess heat during break in - KE25 - 12/17/2012 12:19 PM   
Argess



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From: Pleasantville, NS, CANADA
Status: offline 		ScoobyDo022: Your post is a great example of why you shouldn't use a temp gun. It's also a great example of why you should.

Why you shouldn't? Too much worry as these engines often run between 220 and 280, and sometimes up to 300degF when pushed hard.

Why you should? Because sometimes when you arent' sure what's wrong, a quantatative measurement can help.

It's not uncommon for an engine to run a bit hotter than normal until it's broken in, even when rich. However, factory needle settings are generally "rich" and help keep the temps from sky-rocketing.

Factory settings can also be so far out, that one generally has to tweak them a bit just to keep the engine running decently for break-in (although still rich).

Oddly enough, you may be having LSN troubles. Most factory settings are at "flush", but I've noticed my final settings to be anywhere between flush and 1 turn in. No where near the variance of the HSN. In your case, and because the factory setting is close to optimal for the LSN, I tend to think your LSN is a bit lean. Maybe open it up 1/4 turn. Then tweak your HSN so the engine has some performance, but is still running rich for break-in.

At idle and part throttle, the LSN controls the fuel mixture, and according to your post, that's where you are running.

It's not uncommon for even a broken in engine to run too hot based on a rich LSN, and an HSN that's set to lean to compensate for the high temps. Basically, once the engine is given WOT, the engine starts to run on the HSN only, and being lean, everything heats up.

I would suspect you have the opposite problem.... a lean LSN and since you're not running WOT, your HSN has no effect on richening the mixture and helping keep temps down.

Mind you, I don't think your temps aren't excessively high, but it may indicate a slighlty lean LSN. As before, turn it out about 1/4 turn, and then fiddle with the HSN... rich as possible, but so it can still accelerate without bogging down.

(my 2 cents worth... engine troubleshooting is generally a guess at best when you do it over the net)

Good Luck!

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RE: Excess heat during break in - KE25 - 12/17/2012 5:48 PM   
ScoobyDoo22


 

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From: Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Thanks for your replies, I think you hit the nail on the head Argess, I took it out last night and sure enough after a few tanks she started loosening up. Also tweaked the LSN up a bit and gave it a bit more juice and it is running sweet... 

Thanks again for your help.


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RE: Excess heat during break in - KE25 - 12/18/2012 12:00 AM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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Status: online 		If its running hot in the idle/low rpm area, its your Idle mixture you need to richen, not the Main needle. The idle needle controls about 80% of the throttle band from idle to about 3/4 throttle. After that, the main needle takes over so-to-speak.

Some engines do just run hot though. I have a .26 that likes to run at 290°F, the .28 likes to run about 260°F, both running the same glow plugs and same fuel. The .26, if richened to run cooler is kind-of a toad. When tuned to really tear it up, it runs close to 300°F. As long as it stays under 320°F, it should be fine. The bearing races come loose around 350°F.

An engine, when tuned properly, runs at whatever temperature it runs at. No temp gun is going to tell you if its running right or not. Tune by ear and performance, forget about smoke color, amount, etc. If it sounds like a screaming banshee when you run it WOT, and it idles nice and stable, you're in the ballpark.



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RE: Excess heat during break in - KE25 - 12/18/2012 5:26 AM   
ScoobyDoo22


 

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From: Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Yeah it was the idle needle that I richened a bit, but it was mostly a case of being overly nervous of frying it! 
 
So you're saying that at full throttle it should sound like my missus when she found out how much I spent on it ?!


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RE: Excess heat during break in - KE25 - 12/18/2012 11:37 AM   
Argess



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From: Pleasantville, NS, CANADA
Status: offline 		As 1QkSport2.5R mentioned, you can tune an engine to scream at WOT, however I usually richen the HSN up a tiny bit from there. I believe it adds longevity to the engine, or at least yields a bit of safety to the tune in the event of ambient air temperature changes during your bash session.

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RE: Excess heat during break in - KE25 - 12/18/2012 1:26 PM   
1QwkSport2.5r



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScoobyDoo22

Yeah it was the idle needle that I richened a bit, but it was mostly a case of being overly nervous of frying it!
So you're saying that at full throttle it should sound like my missus when she found out how much I spent on it ?!


More or less, yeah. My wife had a similar "episode" when I bought my Aftershock..

Not sure if its been mentioned or if the manual states it, but always adjust the main needle first, idle mixture second. The main needle is in a fixed seat, the idle needle isnt.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Argess

As 1QwkSport2.5R mentioned, you can tune an engine to scream at WOT, however I usually richen the HSN up a tiny bit from there. I believe it adds longevity to the engine, or at least yields a bit of safety to the tune in the event of ambient air temperature changes during your bash session.


If your engine isnt screaming at WOT, its too rich IMO. I too run my engines a touch rich as well; I lean it down until it cuts out when doing quick WOT jabs, then richen 1/8th turn. The low speed I run a little richer than the top end since the idle mixture controls the majority of the throttle travel, and it doesnt run at WOT for very long.

Good fuel contributes to a good tune. I run my own custom fuel mix and still haven't wore an engine out. I replaced a couple bearings in my airplane engines, but those were changed in favor of phenolic caged bearings for high rpm use.



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