Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build

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Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 3:49 PM

pcinc

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I just picked up this kit from a club member and started going through all the stuff. What a big box filled with a lot of wood. Here's a few pictures showing how much wood and the amount of hardware in the box. This is my first build and I'm taking my time reading a lot of build threads to see how others did this kit.

Peter

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:04 PM

eddieC

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Flair kits are gorgeous.

Are you sure you want to do this as a first build? It's not impossible and I admire your ambition, but bipes are a bit more complex and this is a big one which presents many challenges. Take it slow, and good luck!

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:06 PM

pcinc

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Here's a picture showing the size of the cowl and the detailed instructions for the kit. It has a number of these instruction pages and only 3 full size sheets to build directly on.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:09 PM

pcinc

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Thanks for the kind words EddyC. I thought of doing another kit for a first build and saving this for later but I really like the Tiger Moth and I have a number of experianced builders in our club to lend a hand if I get hung up.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:12 PM

pcinc

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Here I have the first bunch of pieces sorted out and started on my way.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:18 PM

pcinc

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Already ran into a couple of obstacles. The fuel tank that is supplied is only 12 oz and the motor I bought with the kit is a big Moki 2.10. It won't take long for the big Moki to go through 12 oz so I'm going with a 20 oz Dubro tank and had to modify the holders. Here's the original along with my new parts before trimming for height adjustment for carb center line.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:20 PM

pcinc

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Got side tracked and forgot the picture

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:21 PM

pcinc

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Here is where I'm at so far with the front half of the fuse.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:22 PM

eddieC

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I've managed to screw up small kits with the same ease as large ones - LOL!

Looks like a nice cowl. If Fiberglass Specialties has one in stock, you might want to get one for a spare. They are tough, and taildraggers nose over and thus are hard on pointy ends. Copy all plans and parts before building, again good to have spares if you break something or want to make another. You can build on the plan copies and preserve the original.

Building is relaxing and fun, you'll find the time flies. Enjoy!

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:29 PM

pcinc

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Next little roadblock was the distance between the motor mounting beams isn't wide enough to accomidate the width of the big 2.10 Moki. I decided to go with a rear moount and make a new front former out of 1/4 ply to mount it to. I'll use the hardwood beams and cut them flush to the next to last former , them glue the new 1/4 former to the face of that. Here's a few pictures of the new former and the #11 and #12 former with the new larger tank mount. So far things are going well but slow. I'm not in any rush to get this completed and want to take my time so it comes out nice.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:32 PM

pcinc

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Thanks for the tip eddieC. I also saw that Traplett now has a stock of 1/4 scale Tiger moth parts. I have seen very experianced pilots nose over some beatiful biplanes so I will take your advice on the cowl.

Peter

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:41 PM

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This model is designed around a 1.5 Four Stroke, and some modellers actually fly it realistically on a 1.20 FS so...why would you want such an oversize powerful 2.1 Two Stroke in it? It's not as if this kind of model is intended to climb vertically indefinitely is it?
I know there's a throttle, but I doubt you want to use only ~70-75% of its range?
I'd also check carefully if this engine will not overstress the structure.
I have the same kit, yet unbuilt, but am familiar with its structure. Mine will have a 1.55 FS.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 4:57 PM

pcinc

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I read a few builds where they used a Laser 150 and said though flew well, you had to be ahead of the plane all the time. The second choice of motor was a Laser 180 and they said it flew more scale but still needed 140z of lead in the nose to balance it.The gent I bought it from has been modeling and building for over 40 years and his though was if you need to install weight it nthe nose, it should be usable weight.

Peter

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 5:24 PM

eddieC

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Those parts look great. Just starting the kit, and have to fab up parts - welcome to kits!

I have the same take on weight; better to be useful (engine) than bolt on dead weight. The Moki is smoother than a comparable FS or 20-30cc gasser single, I'll bet.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 9:06 PM

pcinc

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I've never run a Moki before but the guy I got it all from has and he said you can run a little bit latger prop and slow it down to be more scale. I am a four stroke fan and like the low end grunt with the quiet lower sound so I'll have to see hoe this turns out. I can't imagine a gasser on the front of this biplane. I think it would get rattled apart for sure.

Peter

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 9:22 PM

GrantL

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Peter... Very nice.. this will keep you busy for a while... I'll help you in to the builders contest in the spring..

Grant

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/17/2012 9:23 PM

eddieC

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The Moki can turn a good-size prop, but don't over-prop it. What't the wingspan and expected weight of the Moth? A good 1.20-1.40 FS would pull it in a scale-like manner I'd think, my choice would be a 1.40 YS. You already have the Moki, which is a very good motor.

Don't worry about an inverted mount, either. The engine doesn't know or care if it's upright, upside-down, or anywhere in between. Lots of mythology/old wives tales about it. The carb does know though, so keep the midpoint of the tank at the same height as the spraybar in level flight. I picked up a new OS 70 Surpass for $50 because the owner had issues running it inverted. (I tried to get him to move the tank, but he declined.) It's happily running inverted in another plane of mine.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/18/2012 12:28 AM

vertical grimmace

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I bet you could use a DLE 30 or maybe even a 20. This way you can use gas and preserve the finish. Also gasoline is so much cheaper. Mounting inverted no pro with the pump carbs either. I am moving away from all glow engines over .46. just not worth it anymore. Oh, u can also use a smaller fuel tank.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/18/2012 12:41 AM

4Stroker

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Please heed the advice about the engine choice - in my opinion, the Moki 2.10 is WAY more engine than you need (or want). I have the Pilot 1/4 Tiger Moth and plan to use a Laser 1.80 four stroke. I believe that engine would be perfect, or one of the small gassers mentioned. If you want to go ahead with the Moki, I suggest you reinforce the front end behind the firewall, that Moki is seriously strong! Just my 2 cents, and good luck to you.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/18/2012 2:11 AM

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Cool airplane. You CAN build it! Use smaller engine. My $0.02

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/18/2012 3:12 AM

pcinc

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Grant,
You do mean the builders contest in the spring of 2014 right

eddieC,
wingspan is 89" and the builds that I have read turn in at 19 - 20 lbs

vertical grimmace,
I do have a NIB CRRC 26cc gas motor with no home right now. I also have a Saito 180 fs on the nose of another plane that's never been flown yet. My concern with both of them is the vibration from each of them. I have run a 150 Saito and it shakes up a pretty good storm at idle. I have a CRRC 26 on a Mentor G Trainer from Maxford that has been flawless that I use for a club training plane. It's never given me any trouble, starts up easily every time and literally sips the fuel.

I have heard and read that the Moki's start up great and run very smooth for a big motor. You all have me second guessing the motor choice I have here. I bought it all from a fellow club member that's done a lot and been around the block and that's the combination he chose. I just took his experience and suggestion.

Peter

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/18/2012 4:20 AM

eddieC

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Don't let us get you chasing your tail. It's all suggestions.

At 20 lbs., the 26 cc may be at the low end of the power range. The 150-180 FS sounds better for that weight. In the mid-80's when 1/4-scale was really becoming popular, one of the hot combos was the Midwest Extra 300 at 18 lbs or so, mated with the Moki 180, then the 210. With the extra drag of a bipe, I'd guess the Moki you have will do the job just fine. The fuel consumption is one drawback, the smoothness is a plus IMO. One big plus of a FS is the sound for a vintage bird like yours, plus the fuel economy.

Big singles, either FS or gas, have a fair amount of vibration. I have profile planes with 50-90 FS engines, and the wear-and-tear up front is considerable. One of them needs repair this winter because the nose is delaminating from the vibes. I live with it because four-strokes have the grunt to turn bigger props, plus the sound.

While vibration isn't quite so bad with a full fuselage, it depends on the design integrity. Being an old-school kit, I'd guess your plane could handle a FS or gasser if you so desired.

One big question is, what are other owners powering their Flair Moths with? Try to find out, and run the Moki idea past them. Me, I'd stay the course. With the beam mounts gone, you can always switch to another engine if you like.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/18/2012 1:04 PM

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I'm in. Have a FLAIR Tigger waiting to build so I'll watch as you go through the process. Beautifull kit. Cowl and glass work is just great.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/18/2012 9:10 PM

vertical grimmace

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You may be OK on your engine size now knowing the size and weight of your plane. You can always prop up in diameter and down in pitch. This type of plane likes that kind of prop anyway.
If Iwere building it, I would look hard at the new DLE 35 rear exhaust. Then you can use standoffs to mount the engine (no maple mounts through the firewall), have a clean exhaust exit out the bottom with an inverted install. Then you can use a small tank, probably a 16oz.

There is also a new gas 4 cycle engine on the market. The NGH 38. That would be great if it performs well.

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RE: Flair 1/4 Scale Tiger Moth Build - 12/19/2012 1:17 AM

GrantL

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pcinc

Grant,
You do mean the builders contest in the spring of 2014 right

Peter

Ahhhhh We were hoping for 2013..

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