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ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/24/2012 7:13 PM   
AndyAndrews


 

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/24/2012 7:30 PM   
sskianpour


 

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Status: offline 		Love the working MK cannons! That's awesome. Wish there were more photos. Gee I wonder why the FAA doesn't want a military spec Nazi Luftwaffe warbird with working cannons patrolling US airspace. Weird. LOL!

Shaz

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/24/2012 7:47 PM   
TSHARK203


 

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Status: online 		Shaz if you buy it I will be more than happy to fly it for you
I would love to have that bird in my hanager.
George

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/24/2012 8:08 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: offline 		I doubt its the cannons that are causing the FAA to not allow it to fly. Its more likely that its the hydrazine hydrate and methanol mixed with the T-stoff that the FAA probably wont allow. If it was just the cannons, itd be amazing to see a flying komet

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/24/2012 10:31 PM   
Ram-bro


 

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Status: offline 		heck, I am thinking that this would require some glider testing. if the FAA was doing the restrictions, I wonder if it was limited to being under rocket power. Tome this would be a great project to redo and put in a jet engine ala BD-5. The inlets would be small and easliy concealed or disguised. Just a thought

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/24/2012 11:05 PM   
invertmast


 

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Status: offline 		Thats be cool, but do that to a replica, not a nearly 100% exact survivor as it was at the end of the war.

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/25/2012 1:26 AM   
RCISFUN



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Status: offline 		Andy
You need that!

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/25/2012 6:31 AM   
I-NAV



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Status: offline 		Good call by the FAA. Who would they get to fly it? This airplane killed more German pilots in landing accidents than US bomber crews.



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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/25/2012 10:14 AM   
JohnMac



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Status: offline 		Absolutely Mike,
I met Eric "Winkle" Brown a few years ago. An amazing Royal Navy test pilot with more firsts under his belt than probably any other test pilot in history.
At the end of the war he tested every German aircraft, and wrote reports on them. In asked him which was the worst aircarft he ever flew, and he said the scariest, and most dangerous by far was the Me 163. As well as having to contend with the dangers of C stoff and T stoff, Walter rocket engines that were liable to explode, the flight characheristics were pretty deadly too.
He talked to all the remaining pilots. They warned him that in a dive you must be very careful as the aircraft would easily exceed VNE, even unpowered. Once you reached that speed the aircraft would steepen it's dive and there was no escape from it. Often the aircraft would break up, but if not you rode it into the deck.
This was also probably the fate of Geoffrey de Haviland Junior who died in the DH Swallow trying to exceed Mach 1. The Swallow was similar to the Me 163, and Brown flew both aircraft.
He said he was never so glad to finish a testing program on any aircraft, and he made the point that any pilot who walked away from a flight in a 163 had to thank lady luck as much as his own skills.
Best admired on the ground I think.
Merry Christmas,
John



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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/25/2012 11:02 AM   
AsiaSRC



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Status: offline 		under the impression from this video..it likes a 'tame' glider.

Merry Christmas



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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/25/2012 12:28 PM   
JohnMac



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quote:

ORIGINAL: AsiaSRC

under the impression from this video..it likes a 'tame' glider.

Merry Christmas



Ah well that is because that is a video of a tame glider
Of course the ME 163 started as a glider, being towed to height and gliding back. It was essential that it could do this since the fuel for the rocket engine lasted a very short time. It ascended vertically upwards above the bombers, and then when the engine cut off it dived into attack at very high speed. afterwards it glided back to base. It was a very different machine with all the extra weight of a combat aircraft, fuel etc. I suspect the aircraft in the video is a pure glider, and if so will weigh a fraction of a combat ready machine. Finally we see it flying at 100 KPH. It was very different when flying at 1000 +KPH.
John

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/25/2012 10:22 PM   
RCISFUN



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Status: offline 		Here is the beginning of the end of them after the war...

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/27/2012 3:29 PM   
jescardin


 

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Status: offline 		John what Mr. Brown explined you didn´t match what he writes in his book "Wing of the Lutfwaffe".

There he explains he only did unpowered flights and were not really for testing the plane but rather for checking his control systems and landing skid in view of aplying them to a certain english prototype.

Actually he got his spine damaged in a landing due to the landing skid hard feeling but if I remember correctly he praised the gliding characteristics of the Me-163 although recognized the high risk the powered flight offered to the pilots due to the dangerous fuel.

As far as I know, there is just no record of any captured Me-163 powered fligt after the war by occidental Air Forces but there is evidende of Russian flights, although no details have filtered through the years.

Best Regards,


Jesus Cardin

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/27/2012 3:42 PM   
JohnMac



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quote:

ORIGINAL: jescardin

John what Mr. Brown explined you didn´t match what he writes in his book ''Wing of the Lutfwaffe''.

There he explains he only did unpowered flights and were not really for testing the plane but rather for checking his control systems and landing skid in view of aplying them to a certain english prototype.

Actually he got his spine damaged in a landing due to the landing skid hard feeling but if I remember correctly he praised the gliding characteristics of the Me-163 although recognized the high risk the powered flight offered to the pilots due to the dangerous fuel.

As far as I know, there is just no record of any captured Me-163 powered fligt after the war by occidental Air Forces but there is evidende of Russian flights, although no details have filtered through the years.

Best Regards,


Jesus Cardin

Jesus,
Of course you are quite right but I was only refering to comments that he made during a lecture. I did not mean to infer that he, or anyone else had made a powered flight in it. I doubt that the British authorities waould have allowed it to even be fuelled up. Of course the ME163 was a good glider, designed as it was by Alexander Lippisch. It was the high speed end of the aircrafts flight envelope as well as the fuel that were dangerous.
John

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/27/2012 4:48 PM   
hmjets


 

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Status: offline 		Also for sale one restored HE 162, the salamander...

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/27/2012 5:01 PM   
erbroens



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Status: offline 		Saw this interview some time ago with a luftwaffe´s test pilot and her impression on the Komet was very interesting to hear.. (at 1:25)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJC2KTTZhTY

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/27/2012 7:05 PM   
Jgwright


 

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Status: offline 		Erik Brown is famous for being the only allied pilot to fly the Me163 under power.
Full details of the circumstances of how he flew it are in pages 228 to 223 of Wings over the Luftwaffe 2010 edition.

Here is Erik talking about the Me163 under power

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PN9AP710e0

see at 3.04 minutes



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXLcUKB-jws

I suspect that the early edition of his book was in 1977 when official Secrets Acts were still relevant and also he may have been a 'naughty boy' flying without approval and not wanting to shout about it. Now he is of advanced years he has no worries on either score.

I have only listed 2 of the various talks he has given about flying the Me163 under power.

A remarkable man.

John

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/28/2012 3:52 PM   
JohnMac



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Status: offline 		Thanks John,
I think you have explained it perfectly. I remember the lecture very well but it was at least 10 years ago. He said afterwards the 163 was the most dangerous aeroplane he had ever flown, but when I checked his book, it does not mention powered flight.
Thanks for the links to the videos as I had not seen either of them.
Thanks
John

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/28/2012 4:33 PM   
Nhalyn



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Status: offline 		Hi guys !

This plane was made in urgency for desesperate purpose (no, not for victoria lane... ) and was only made to be scaring for allied forces and eventualy destroys some bombers. As jets were not very effectives at this time, it was a possible answer and a pionner on this way, wich was a bad and too dangerous way. Americans planes like X1 to X15 were in the same line of design with some results in post war-time aka peace times... At the same time X1B and Skyrocket were difficultly facing to Mach 3 with rocket engine, observation planes were F-104 with kerozine jet engine capable of Mach 2.2 each day and for long times, were rocket engine were pushing only for few seconds or at most few minuts...


For this announce to buy a original Me163B and a He162 by the same guy, I've done some qwick search last night, and what I found is not really happy ! Some differents guys in different planes collection enthousiast forums seem to ask if its not a swindle as prize seems very low for original planes in flying states as annouced, with working engines !!! The He162 seems to be known as a replica, not a original but with lots of original parts in it.

All surviving Me163 are well known and documented ! The last that was sold to Paul Allen by the IWM of Duxford was sold for around $800.000 ! and it was not fully restored and not in flying state at all ! Here you should find a Me163 with working engine at around $350.000 (by memory) ??? Sorry, buts its only Santa Claus times...

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/28/2012 6:04 PM   
mr_matt



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Status: online 		Here is a good video on the 163, and at 25:31 this guy says it flew well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XeIWojX3nw

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/29/2012 4:21 AM   
Hustler58



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Status: offline 		WOW ! They take PayPal! I'm in now!

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/29/2012 4:26 AM   
invertmast


 

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ORIGINAL: Hustler58

WOW ! They take PayPal! I'm in now!



I'll volunteer to be the Guinea Pig... I mean test pilot

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/29/2012 1:49 PM   
JohnMac



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ORIGINAL: mr_matt

Here is a good video on the 163, and at 25:31 this guy says it flew well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XeIWojX3nw

It did fly well but.....:
The fuel could detonate at any time with the slightest leak.
The fuel would disolve flesh and ignite skin on contact.
The take off dolly could hang up. The aircraft could not manouver or land in this condition.
The take off dolly often bounced up and hit the aircraft on take off. Several pilots were lost this way.
The aircraft could easily exceed VNE in level flight under power, and certainly in a dive. Several pilots were lost this way.
I do not know of any pilot sucessfully bailing out of the aircraft.
If the landing skid did not deploy correctly, the pilot would probably have a broken back on landing. On a few occasions the aircraft flipped over on landing and soaked the pilot in fuel.
Other than this it was as safe as houses .

The thing that this aircraft did was make a quantum leap forward in design, and I would love another (jet) model of this aircraft. I just do not think that anyone making powered flights in this aircraft is worth the risk.
John

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/29/2012 4:54 PM   
Nhalyn



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Status: offline 		I've seen few flights of a german guy (I forgot the name at the moment... Marcus Richter ?) with a big scale Me 163 with turbine in it and this plane is a blast in flight and very impressive !

Yes, I aggree, the real one was a quantum leap forward !

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RE: ME163B KOMET, Here's your chance to buy one - 12/29/2012 6:55 PM   
cactusflyer



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ram-bro

heck, I am thinking that this would require some glider testing. if the FAA was doing the restrictions, I wonder if it was limited to being under rocket power. Tome this would be a great project to redo and put in a jet engine ala BD-5. The inlets would be small and easliy concealed or disguised. Just a thought


The BD-5 engine is rated "up to 300 lbf" and the Bede weighs about 1100 lbs. The Me-163 weighed about 4000 lbs. and the rocket put out 3800 lbf! For comparison, the engines on the Lear 35 put out 3500 lbf....the nacelles on the Lear are bigger than the fuse on the 163.........it's hard to beat the output of a rocket engine. A small turbine could be used to extend the glide after getting towed aloft.

Tailwinds,

John

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