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Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/25/2012 5:32 PM   
ameyam


 

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Status: offline 		I just broke-in one tank on a OS FS110A. It didnt start easily first time, but after it started it did the tank fine. We took a break (first tank took 45 odd minutes) and then filled up for a second tank. This time, the engine ran ok to begin with for a couple of minutes and then you could hear the rpm drop away till it cut off even though we were only running at idle. After 10-15 minutes of this, the tank was nearly half empty, which is quite unbelievable. Since it was dark already, we decided to do the rest of the running-in on some other day

Later, I took the tank out thinking there was some plumbing problem and sure enough, the filler line had nicked. The tank foam packing and the battery which sits below it had fuel on them. This was some old unbranded silicone tubing I was using, so I discarded all three tubes. But I dont have any absolutely new tubing. I have some pre-used tubing from another tank and this yellow stuff. The preused tubing is also a year or too old

So two questions

1) Is this yellow tubing silicone or tygon? Its not stamped as tygon or silicone. Should I use the pre-use tubing?

2) Am I right in presuming the problems we had in the second tank were to do with nicked tubing? My biggest concern is that the engine is inverted and the tank is about half an inch higher than the carb in the airplane. The airplane had the tank higher in stock, I have elongated the firewall hole to drop it lower. The tank is thoroughly vibration isolate with foam on all sides

Ameyam

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/25/2012 6:00 PM   
JeffinTD


 

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Status: offline 		That appears to be tygon.

Since fuel line tends to deteriorate with age, I'd suggest getting new fuel line. An old, hardened stopper can also be a source of leaks, so if it is older, it might be worthwhile to change that, too, while you have everything apart.

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/25/2012 6:22 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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Status: online 		Thats tygon

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/25/2012 6:52 PM   
JollyPopper



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Status: online 		Since you have an inverted engine with the tank higher than the carb, you will probably have problems with fuel running into the carb when the engine is not running and seriously flooding the engine. Be careful you don't bend a rod. A pair of forceps on the tank to carb line will stop the fuel from running into the engine while not running. It would be much to your advantage to lower the tank somehow if possible. The foam around the tank is a good idea but not critical. Most fuel now has an anti foaming component in it which will prevent it foaming from vibration. The foam certainly doesn't hurt anything though.


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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/25/2012 9:28 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		Everything that the popper said. If you have a good starter with a big battery and your engine is flooded you can break things like the rod and crank. Seen that happen. Try to get the tank lowered.
That sure looks like Tygon. It can be used with glow fuel but inside the tank it is a bit stiff and doesn't move around very well. When I use tygon I also use a bigger clunk.
Like Jeff mentioned, if the bung is old it can cause you problems. I use a number of tank brands and types and I keep several new replacement bungs on hand in the shop. Once I take a tank apart I always replace the bung too. There are also a lot of different shapes and sizes of tanks. In my new plane I used an old Sullivan thin wing tank and it worked out well for me. I have had that tank under the bench for years and just put it together with all new components.

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 1:55 AM   
ameyam


 

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Status: offline 		So should I use tygon with glow fuel outside the tank or wait for some silicone tubing?

I have already lowered the tank quite a bit to get it close to inline with the carb. If I lower further, I will not be able to accommodate the battery below to get the required CG. But let me see later in the week.

The tank is a Sullivan. Its not old, plumbed it just a few months back. The largest flexitank I have is 12oz, would that be sufficient for a 12minute or so flight with the 110? There is already a OS bubble-less clunk inside that does the job of both filter and clunk

Ameyam

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 2:51 AM   
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Status: offline 		I would expect a 12 oz tank to work fine with that engine. How big was the tank that gave you a 45 minute run time?

To really know if your tank position is a problem or not, just set it all up and see if you get any fuel siphoning between runs. An upright 4 stroke can't flood that way because the siphoned fuel just runs out of the throttle but an inverted one can.

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 3:57 AM   
JeffinTD


 

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Status: offline 		I would use silicone on all lines with glow.

If you do have to lower the tank, would you then ba able to fit the batteries above the tank?

I agree with the above, though. See if it siphons as it is first. Might also get in the habit of rotating the crank by hand before attaching the glow driver and hitting it with an electric starter.

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 7:04 AM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		I have used tygon on the outside lines several times. I just wouldn't use it on the inside on smaller tanks like yours just because it doesn't move as freely to pick up fuel. I have gotten in the habit of rotating my engines by hand as Jeff mentioned and I don't have any engines that can flood by siphoning, just a good habit to get into.
If the throttle barrel is completely closed when fueling or just sitting on the line then siphoning doesn't happen often. Once the throttle is opened it can though. It usually happens when filling if the throttle is open at all, even with as little as when it is set to idle. If it's filled and the throttle is open a bit it can flood.
I figure about an ounce per minute for run time. Today I was checking to see my average fuel consumption with a YS 1.10 and set my timer at 8 minutes. I was using only about 6 to 8 ounces in my fights even with stunting the plane pretty hard. I thought that was pretty impressive but this plane only requires about 1/4 throttle for normal flight.
I would fly the plane for the 8 minutes then land and pull the wing to see how much fuel I was using per flight. I have a 12 or 14 ounce tank in my plane.
The siphoning problem is just a warning, it's not etched in stone. I have gotten away without it happening then out of nowhere it would happen. Try it and see before you make any mods.
Do like I did and check how much fuel you would normally use in a flight, it's easy to do and worth the trouble.

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 8:47 AM   
ameyam


 

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Status: offline 		GB, its a bipe, the wiring for the top wing first passed through the faring into the fuse and gets plugged in, then the bottom wing plugs and screws in, then the top wing screws into the fairing and the both the top and bottom wing screw into the cabanes. Its just not possible to take just the bottom wing off to check how much fuel is left, so thats not an option.

The tank that gave me 45 minutes is most likely a 14oz. I was looking to put in a flexi tank originally and they are only available front outlet up to 12oz. That 45 minutes wasnt at WOT- it was nearly 50% time at idle, some time at WOT and some time in between. This engine makes a massive amount of smoke and noise, we were running on the building terrace and couldnt keep it at WOT all the time. It was running slobberingly rich though and I intend to run at WOT on the field on sunday

I usually start all my airplanes by hand with a chicken stick. I use the starter only first time in a day and when the thing refuses to start. Since this is inverted, it has a massive kick. Probably first time we filled it, it did siphon, coz it actually cutoff the hard silicone on the chicken stick.

I will order some silicone tubing from a local vendor. I am also planning to replace the tank all together and insta a 12oz flexitank. However, If I install the battery above the tank, I wont be able to monitor it while charging (its Hobbico LiFe), so I would prefere to avoid that

I will post some pics of the tank to carb height as soon as possible

Ameyam

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 1:32 PM   
jester_s1


 

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Status: offline 		Why do you need to monitor a LiFe while charging? As long as you're using a balance board they are just as safe as NiCds. Lithium batteries being dangerous is one of the most pervasive exaggerations I've ever seen spread around by the internet. Yes, lipos should be monitored with either a temp probe or visually and should be charged on a flame proof surface because they are flammable and can be ignited if there is a fault in the charging process. Beyond that though, you don't have anything to worry about with LiFe.
If you want some proof, I had an LiFe that had puffed because of being over discharged. I wanted to see what the fire hazzard actually was with it so I charged it up fully and then twisted the discharge wires together. It got too hot to touch pretty quickly, then puffed more and melted the plastic covering off. Then that was it- no smoking, no fire, and never enough heat to ignite a piece of balsa I had set on top of it. So given that experiment, if you have a total charging disaster with an LiFe you may melt the foam around your battery and may ruin your Monokote over the battery compartment, but there simply isn't a fire hazzard with them.

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 2:15 PM   
JeffinTD


 

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Status: offline 		Speaking of tugon clunk line, I use the stuff from True Value. Their 1/8 line is thinner walled than the stuff you get at the hobby shop. More flexible, and seems to be just as tough.

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 2:55 PM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: online 		yup as everyone noted already the pictured fuel line is or a form of tygon and I would not use it for a YS. You need silicon and it needs to be new stuff. If you have non then you need to get it.

The very next thing you need is a genuine Hayes (o) ring tank and not a bung plug tank. Specifically the Hayes 11 ounce. These tanks fucntion far better with the Hayes fuel system than any other type. For yeasr I operated the 90AC's and later the two versions of the 110's in a competitive format and while the Hayes was not a requirement within the rules they were the only tanks that worked well with the YS system.

next step is I would remove the tank from its forward position aft to near the center of gravity location where the YS system works the best and the height relationship is not so critcal. The advice to always keep hemostates on the carb line after refueling untill the start is good advice.

Futher If you have not provided a small external loop of the carb line external of any cowling then you need to do that. This external loop is imperitive to provide first a place to clip those hemostats and the all important location to pinch test from.


John

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 3:07 PM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: online 		Here is also a tank wrap procedure using filiment tape that I continue to the day to use with all YS engines. Note this tank is not a genuine hayes tank. Its just an old bung plug tank and was used in this case only for demonstration of the wrapping process:

John

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 3:33 PM   
ameyam


 

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Status: offline 		Well, I cant get a Hayes tank right now. In the past I had good results with these soft Sullivan flexitanks, so I am going to use one. I got some good still on the spool silicone tubing from a fellow flier and its has much thicker walls (Venom make). Thats the one I will use as well.

I really wont be drop the tank much. Even with the centreline being at the carb height, there will still be part of the fuel level higher than the carb so it wont help that much. I will drop it as much as possible. With the Life above the tank, I will need to keep the balance lead just isint long enough, I tried that

Hold on till I get some pics

Ameyam

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 6:59 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		John, Amey is using the OS 1.10 FS. I may have been the one to mention the YS? I don't think Ameys engine has a pump either If it did there wouldn't be any problem. I do use the Hayes tanks once in a while, when I see one on the shelf of any of the LHS here I buy them but they don't seem to be in stock often. They do work great though and I like them a bunch.
Amey, check with your local drug store to see if they have any fuel line in stock. As a kid I used to buy my line at the local drug store. Just a thought.

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 8:07 PM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: online 		Thanks GB I did indeed misread the YS into the equation without realizing you are taking about the OS engine Which is an engine I would like to try later this year.

So please disregard anything I posted in my previous post.

John

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/26/2012 11:03 PM   
Gray Beard


 

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Status: offline 		Never, you are one of my mountains of information. I didn't re-read my own posts but I may have mentioned YS.How the heck you feeling and when are you going to be back in town?
Gene

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/27/2012 7:09 AM   
gagnomchae


 

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Status: offline 		I'd suggest getting new fuel line.

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/27/2012 7:48 AM   
JohnBuckner



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Status: online 		Thanks GB Actually I will be back at the doctors in LAS this AM for a quick visit and hopefully I can get this last tube in my side removed. If that happens I will probably let the guys kidnap me who have been trying to get me out to the field to fly. Its a special bunch when they will come an prep my airplane(s) and get them and I to the field. I am fortunate to have them as flying buds.

John

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/27/2012 2:56 PM   
ameyam


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry I couldnt return last night, I was just to tired to work on the airplane.

Just reinstalled the tank, pics attached. This is a 12oz tank I was using. I dont think I can drop the tank much further, I can rotate it though by 90 deg so that its wider side lays horizontal and that way I will have a lower tank / less fuel head on the carb when its full. Still, I am thinking of installing a Sullivan flexi tank if I have it in 12oz

Like I said I got some unused tubing from a fellow flier. Its Venom make. Though unused, its a bit old. There are some points of chafing which I cut off but the tubing is new enough that the coils are stuck together on the spool. Its thicker that what I was otherwise using, should be better

This is a OS FS110 without pump.

Ameyam

PS: Whats with the time out (500) errors?




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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/28/2012 3:05 PM   
ameyam


 

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Status: offline 		Ok, finally was able to run the engine today with the new tank, albeit at idle only as I was running indoors. It purrs along at a good rpm with the plug connected but cuts within a second or two of the driver being removed at idle. There is also a significant drop in the rpm on removing the driver. Shouldnt I expect it to continue running when the driver is removed? It not a bad plug, if doesnt even sustain with the driver connected on a older plug. Am I missing something? Thinking to modify it to 45deg off inverted

Ameyam

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/28/2012 3:33 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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Status: online 		Its either a bad plug, or its way out of tune

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 12/28/2012 3:46 PM   
ameyam


 

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Status: offline 		Hmm.. I need new FS plugs anyway, so I will get a couple tomorrow. It is way out of tune but not on the idle side. The idle screw is still at factory setting, the HS needle is 3.5 to 4 turns out as per manual for break-in. Its not properly broken-in as yet and I dont want to move the idle screw just yet till it has had a couple of tanks through. To investigate further, I need to go to atleast half throttle which is not feasible at home. I will take it to the field on Sunday and try it out there

Ameyam

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RE: Is this tubing Tygon or silicone? - 1/4/2013 8:18 PM   
kgillion


 

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Status: offline 		It looks like a knock off of Tygon F4040A Fuel Tubing,  I get it at http://kmac-distribution.com/Plastics/tygon-f-4040-a.htm
Tygon has thier name printed on thier tubes.


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