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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 2:45 PM   
jester_s1


 

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Status: offline 		Yes, the cross training effect of flying multiple kinds of aircraft makes for a better all around pilot. When you get the feel for a heavy scale plane the aerobats feel light and quick by comparison. Really fast planes sharpen up your reflexes so you feel like you have extra time when flying anything else. A well-trimmed aerobat teaches you what a good maneuver should look like so it sets the standard for doing them with scale and sport planes.

There are a select few pilots in my club that seem to just never make a flying mistake. They can fly in any wind, fly any maneuver properly, and can spot their landings at will. I've watched these guys since I got into the hobby and have found that they generally fly about 5-6 planes of different types. One guy I think of competes in IMAC, pylon racing, and SPA. Another is more interested in scale so he enters at least one scale contest every year but also pylon races. Both of these guys are also instructors so they fly trainers regularly and practice their recoveries from every strange position possible. Also interesting to me is that these guys never bring all their planes to the field. Usually they bring two and only fly one for most of the day, working on their techniques. But they maintain skills over the long haul will a varied collection of planes that's big enough to offer some diversity but not so big that they can't stay familiar with all of them. IMO, one of the common beginner mistakes is to amass too big a collection of planes without enough diversity. Ie, 5 different sport planes or every WWII scale model they can get. A much better choice for improving pilot skills is to have one plane in each category- a sport plane like a 4 Star on Ugly Stick, a warbird, a racer, an aerobat like a Kaos, and something slow and underpowered like a Cub.

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 3:19 PM   
insp507


 

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Status: offline 		Don't worry about how much you paid for the airplane if you crash.
If your not crashing your probly not flying much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 3:46 PM   
sensei



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quote:

ORIGINAL: insp507

Don't worry about how much you paid for the airplane if you crash.
If your not crashing your probly not flying much!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You would not believe how many guys I have worked with at the flying field that worry about how much cash has gone into their airplane, especially if there in the 35 to 60% range of aircraft. I always tell them the same thing... Forget about the cash, its a hobby, and once the airplane leaves the ground, it now belong to the sky, so you may as well relax and enjoy it while your flying.

Bob

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 3:54 PM   
HoundDog


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Top_Gunn

quote:

It's the RUDDER that stears the ship (AIR).


Well, no. Using the rudder makes the plane yaw. If the plane has enough dihedral, the yaw will induce a bank, and up elevator will make a banked plane turn. Some planes' ailerons are ineffective when they're flying slowly, and if you have one of those planes using rudder to steer on final is necessary. For most planes, though, all turns should be coordinated, and only enough rudder to counteract adverse yaw (frequently none, for small models) is needed. Airplanes aren't boats, and the rudder is not the primary steering control.

One exception, to be sure: if you're a good enough pilot you can land straight in a crosswind by flying with one wing low, using opposite rudder to keep the bank from inducing a turn. It's fun, but it's hard. Crabbing is a lot easier.

Yes RUDDER is is the PRIMARY YAW control. I contend that if your attemptig to land the wings are keept Level with the ailerons and the heading is done with the RUDDER.

 Not nowing how use the RUDDER or just not Useing the RUDDER on landing especially, is what gets a lot of guys in trouble. Watch the guy that tries to turn the plane away from the flight line with Alerions only, at the last minute because he has let the plane fly it's self and just hoped it would get on the ground before it hit the edge of the runway, because he doesn't use  or understand how to keep the plane (any Plane) stright with the RUDDER.

 I like to train with a Sig Kadet Senior with a 40 size motor with rudder and elevator only... the rudder is on the left stick and the student learns how to fly with Rudder and Elavator and automaticly uses rudder to Coordinate a turn when starting to use Ailerons, because that has been his primary means of turning since the begenning.  It works for me so I don't mess with Success. If it ain't Broke don't fix it.   JMHO



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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 4:12 PM   
mustangman177


 

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 4:27 PM   
91zulu



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quote:

ORIGINAL: john josey

What do you guys consider the single most difficult/complex aerobatic manoeuvre there is ? theres one i've been working away at for many years without sucsess and just about given up hope of ever being able to do, let alone doing it smooth and accurate.



The answer. about all of them. Why I say that you ask, looks like some guys have them all down pack. Not sooo fast. Look closely and most times you will find the guy that you think is good has a handy cap or many handy caps. For example a knife edge. Most guys could only do it either in one direction or with the canopy side facing them. Try to get them to do it with the bottom of the plane towards them and its amateur nite. Rolling circles , done in one direction all day long. Look at the guys that come in first and second in the top meets. They do their routines in any direction, inside rolling circles, outside, left to right. right to left, vertical, and all with the SAME smoothness. That`s why they are the best. They too have handy caps but you would be hard press to find it.

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 4:28 PM   
Top_Gunn


 

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quote:

I contend that if your attemptig to land the wings are keept Level with the ailerons and the heading is done with the RUDDER.


Full scale pilots don't fly that way. Why should we? Except when you are doing a slip intentionally, there's no reason why either a full scale plane or a model should be uncoordinated

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 4:34 PM   
on_your_six


 

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Status: online 		SIMULATOR. Some sims even have videos that tell you how to do an aerobatic maneuver.

Time is cheap in the sim. Practice your landings. Straight lines... be smooth on the sticks.



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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 4:37 PM   
RealFly


 

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Status: offline 		The above is very true.  IMAC taught me the importance of flying a straight line with wings level and maintaining altitude.  I see guys hovering, trying all sorts of things, and yet they still can't fly straight and level or keep orientation across field and parallel to the field.  Yet they will say why don't you do X or Y.  My reply is I can throw the sticks in the corners like everyone else, but everyone else can't execute a precise manuever...IMAC is a good place to learn.  Now off planes to helis...

I marvel at how certain guys want to progress to 3D with helis, but still can't quite do nose in, left side/right side facing and generally have full upright orientation.  The first time they fly a loop and come out corkscrewed they are really screwed because they never saw that orientation in a stationary hover....It's a pain in the a.. to learn the basics and stick with it but there will come a time when it all falls together and you see you are move advanced than guys starting with you who did not spend the time...Then you start with your inverted orientations....yet another learning curve...

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 4:39 PM   
SCALECRAFT



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Status: offline 		To maximize your models cooperation, I would add.

Know your air frames weight/wing loading. And the proper CG location.

This is why even Snoopy's dog house can fly.

Steve

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 4:41 PM   
Lifer


 

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Status: online 		Ozmo,

I was self-taught in rc, transitioning from free-flight to control-line, then to rc. McDDD was my advanced trainer. It sounds a lot like you know him too!

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 8:37 PM   
sensei



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quote:

ORIGINAL: on_your_six

SIMULATOR. Some sims even have videos that tell you how to do an aerobatic maneuver.

Time is cheap in the sim. Practice your landings. Straight lines... be smooth on the sticks.



Actually the simulator is a great tool for working things out because if you sit down and practice for 2 hours on the simulator, you can generally get 2 hour of stick time in, if you go the field for 2 hours you will be lucky to get 30 minutes of stick time in. I remember purchasing the first version Real Flight simulator that came to the market, it had a yellow Extra 330 with red and blue trim as one of the aerobatic airplanes choices and it was not vary 3D friendly, but I spent almost 2 1/2 years on it and wore out three transmitters practicing and playing with it, and then applying what I learned every time I went to the field. Now keep in mind that I had already been flying R/C a great many years prior to buying the simulator but I would say that it improved my game for sure . So in my opinion, it is not a bad way to go for anyone wanting to improve.

Bob

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 11:04 PM   
geh3



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Status: offline 		I haven't read this entire thread BUT
learn how to use EXPO and Dual/Triple rates
EXPO can make any airplane fly very smooth if
programmed correctly!

That's it ! (+what everybody else said) 


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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 11:09 PM   
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		WOW! i guess that rules out smoking while i re-fuel as well??

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/27/2012 11:29 PM   
on_your_six


 

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Status: online 		I would say that pattern contests are not for everyone... but doing the routines sure improves your flying. Square, straight, balanced, proportional, circular, speed, rotational. You are really flying when you are trying to control every aspect of the flight position. Anything else is just hanging on to the sticks and reacting.

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/28/2012 12:59 AM   
john josey


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bogbeagle

Well, there's only 4 aerobatic manoeuvres, that I know of.

Roll.
Loop.
Stall turn.
Spin.

Everything else is a variant of these.

I have no idea what might be considered the "most difficult manoeuvre". There's plenty that I can't do with finesse. I did once see a guy do a rolling loop, if that helps. And, it wasn't a whizzy-whizzy blur of activity, either ... it was slow and measured.




Yeah, this is the thing, the rolling loop is similar to the rolling circle, it 'can' be completed by carefull well timed elevator only inputs. For me the holy grail of manoeuvers is the one roll rolling circle. Ever since i watched Hanno prettner perform it at sandown park in the 1980's i have been obsessed, but to no avail so far.

The difficulty lies in the fact that all four controls have to be varied constantly from start till finish at around 8 seconds. If it's flat calm you might get off lightly with the throttle.


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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/28/2012 1:03 AM   
earles6169


 

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Status: offline 		I agree with all that was stated above. Especially the left thumb rudder . About ten years ago I got away from flying because of getting married haveing kids ect. Getting back into things I was fascinated with the whole 3 d. Thing which was not really around when I quit. So I got myself a simulator and re-learned how to fly because in the past  as I was taught  you don't really use the left stick  once you are in the air except a hammer head or knife edge.  IMO. I think that simulator time is a good tool to teach your hands how to do something before you go and give it a try with your model. Also something that I had to relearn is to be able to any maneuver from any direction. For example a knife edge can be done 4 ways..  L 2 r top in. Bottom in. R2L top in. Bottom in.  Also don't be a fair weather flyer.  Just because the wind is blowing doesn't mean you can't go fly,  anyone reading this would tell a new driver that they need to know how to drive in snow and ice.....

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/28/2012 1:59 AM   
JH313


 

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Status: offline 		One more thing, have a beater plane. That one plane which you don't even care for and are just waiting for it to crash can provide the most fun and best lessons. This was my Escapade, after a defect in production, GP sent me a new one free. I was able to fix the first one and flew the heck out of it. I was doing low inverted passes less than 15 feet off the ground. I would fly this plane in winds I wouldn't even imagine with one of my better planes. It had to have been my favorite planes.

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/28/2012 3:15 AM   
sensei



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quote:

ORIGINAL: john josey


quote:

ORIGINAL: bogbeagle

Well, there's only 4 aerobatic manoeuvres, that I know of.

Roll.
Loop.
Stall turn.
Spin.

Everything else is a variant of these.

I have no idea what might be considered the ''most difficult manoeuvre''. There's plenty that I can't do with finesse. I did once see a guy do a rolling loop, if that helps. And, it wasn't a whizzy-whizzy blur of activity, either ... it was slow and measured.




Yeah, this is the thing, the rolling loop is similar to the rolling circle, it 'can' be completed by carefull well timed elevator only inputs. For me the holy grail of manoeuvers is the one roll rolling circle. Ever since i watched Hanno prettner perform it at sandown park in the 1980's i have been obsessed, but to no avail so far.

The difficulty lies in the fact that all four controls have to be varied constantly from start till finish at around 8 seconds. If it's flat calm you might get off lightly with the throttle.



I have to agree, the one roll circle is one of the coolest things to see. I practiced that maneuver seams like thousands of times on the simulator before I could ever get it done on a real airplane. Here is a short video of a demo flight I was asked to perform at a memorial fly back in 2008, and the wind was blowing around 20 mph. Anyway someplace in there is a one roll circle. The airplane is a 40% Carden 260 I built on an extreme diet and placed a DA 100 in it, so keep in mind that it flies allot like a 33% airplane instead of a 40%er.

http://www.icanflyrc.com/JRFlyin/JH_Rice_2008/slides/Bob260.html

Bob


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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/28/2012 4:40 AM   
HighPlains


 

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quote:

quote:

I contend that if your attemptig to land the wings are keept Level with the ailerons and the heading is done with the RUDDER.


Full scale pilots don't fly that way. Why should we? Except when you are doing a slip intentionally, there's no reason why either a full scale plane or a model should be uncoordinated


Is that a side slip or a forward slip? Big difference between the two.

As to what full scale pilots do, it depends on the airplane what technique they use. While dipping a wing into a cross wind and touching down on one wheel works nice on a little Cessna, it tends to bend metal on a 747.

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/28/2012 6:53 AM   
bogbeagle


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: john josey

Ever since i watched Hanno prettner perform it at sandown park in the 1980's





I was there, too.

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/28/2012 9:10 AM   
VictoryRoll



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HIT SUBSCRIBE TO THIS THREAD !



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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/28/2012 9:43 AM   
john josey


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sensei


quote:

ORIGINAL: john josey


quote:

ORIGINAL: bogbeagle

Well, there's only 4 aerobatic manoeuvres, that I know of.

Roll.
Loop.
Stall turn.
Spin.

Everything else is a variant of these.

I have no idea what might be considered the ''most difficult manoeuvre''. There's plenty that I can't do with finesse. I did once see a guy do a rolling loop, if that helps. And, it wasn't a whizzy-whizzy blur of activity, either ... it was slow and measured.




Yeah, this is the thing, the rolling loop is similar to the rolling circle, it 'can' be completed by carefull well timed elevator only inputs. For me the holy grail of manoeuvers is the one roll rolling circle. Ever since i watched Hanno prettner perform it at sandown park in the 1980's i have been obsessed, but to no avail so far.

The difficulty lies in the fact that all four controls have to be varied constantly from start till finish at around 8 seconds. If it's flat calm you might get off lightly with the throttle.



I have to agree, the one roll circle is one of the coolest things to see. I practiced that maneuver seams like thousands of times on the simulator before I could ever get it done on a real airplane. Here is a short video of a demo flight I was asked to perform at a memorial fly back in 2008, and the wind was blowing around 20 mph. Anyway someplace in there is a one roll circle. The airplane is a 40% Carden 260 I built on an extreme diet and placed a DA 100 in it, so keep in mind that it flies allot like a 33% airplane instead of a 40%er.

http://www.icanflyrc.com/JRFlyin/JH_Rice_2008/slides/Bob260.html

Bob



Bob.....Respect !!! Two things i've realised from your post, the first is i'm making the circle too small and not giving myself time to make the subtle corrections.At the moment i'm one or two moves behind as i really need to be that in front. The second is the simulator, i've had a go on them but cant keep focused for more than a few minute's. I think i'm just old fashioned and prefer to turn fuel to smoke.

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/28/2012 10:22 AM   
HarryC


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HoundDog
''>Finally some one that thinks like me  It's the RUDDER that stears the ship (AIR)


Oh dear, I wondered how long it would be until this modellers' myth came up. Those who think rudder steers or turns a plane in flight need to go to their local full-size flying club and book some proper flying lessons. The rudder is not a steering control unless you are in a boat. You always turn with ailerons, the rudder is to assist the fin in doing its job of keeping the plane straight into the oncoming airflow, it is NOT for turning you out of straight! (unless you really do want to such as knife edge)


< Message edited by HarryC -- 12/28/2012 11:22 AM >

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RE: Tips to make you a Better Pilot: - 12/28/2012 11:42 AM   
sensei



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quote:

ORIGINAL: john josey


quote:

ORIGINAL: sensei


quote:

ORIGINAL: john josey


quote:

ORIGINAL: bogbeagle

Well, there's only 4 aerobatic manoeuvres, that I know of.

Roll.
Loop.
Stall turn.
Spin.

Everything else is a variant of these.

I have no idea what might be considered the ''most difficult manoeuvre''. There's plenty that I can't do with finesse. I did once see a guy do a rolling loop, if that helps. And, it wasn't a whizzy-whizzy blur of activity, either ... it was slow and measured.




Yeah, this is the thing, the rolling loop is similar to the rolling circle, it 'can' be completed by carefull well timed elevator only inputs. For me the holy grail of manoeuvers is the one roll rolling circle. Ever since i watched Hanno prettner perform it at sandown park in the 1980's i have been obsessed, but to no avail so far.

The difficulty lies in the fact that all four controls have to be varied constantly from start till finish at around 8 seconds. If it's flat calm you might get off lightly with the throttle.



I have to agree, the one roll circle is one of the coolest things to see. I practiced that maneuver seams like thousands of times on the simulator before I could ever get it done on a real airplane. Here is a short video of a demo flight I was asked to perform at a memorial fly back in 2008, and the wind was blowing around 20 mph. Anyway someplace in there is a one roll circle. The airplane is a 40% Carden 260 I built on an extreme diet and placed a DA 100 in it, so keep in mind that it flies allot like a 33% airplane instead of a 40%er.

http://www.icanflyrc.com/JRFlyin/JH_Rice_2008/slides/Bob260.html

Bob



Bob.....Respect !!! Two things i've realised from your post, the first is i'm making the circle too small and not giving myself time to make the subtle corrections.At the moment i'm one or two moves behind as i really need to be that in front. The second is the simulator, i've had a go on them but cant keep focused for more than a few minute's. I think i'm just old fashioned and prefer to turn fuel to smoke.


Yes, allowing the airplane to extend out in the roller gives you more time to work with it. I am with you, it is a real discipline forcing you to sit in front of the computer and practice for hours at a time, I remember aggravating the He!! out of myself trying to get something through my head at times.

Bob


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