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Turbines and Winter flying - 12/26/2012 3:01 PM   
Vettster


 

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From: BeetonOntario, CANADA
Status: offline 		I recall a few years ago..seeing a video of Gary Arthur flying his Boomer Sprint in the winter with some custom ski's. I think I would like to try this my self this winter, with the same plane.

What are the possible negatives with this.. Crystals in the fuel? Can an additive be used? Grease freezing in the servos?

Would like to hear from people that have done winter flying with turbines.

Hope Gary still has the video of his Sprint on Ski's

Trevor

< Message edited by Vettster -- 12/28/2012 12:00 AM >

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/26/2012 3:23 PM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Something like this... Minus all the mucking about in the begining of the video. Skip to the 5:00min mark for the take off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyc5_Sj0QUE

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/26/2012 5:57 PM   
Dr Honda



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Status: offline 		I guess it all depends on how cold it is.

I know with my heli's... they feel stiff, and dont center properly. (feels out of trim)

If you run diesel... it could gel up. But kero shouldn't.

Regardless... looks fun.


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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/26/2012 11:09 PM   
Gary Arthur



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Status: offline 		Flying in the winter is a lot of fun. The runway is so wide (the entire field) and the jets have added thrust due to the dense air. The only thing is you do not have brakes as seen near the end of the video when I was trying to get just a little closer.
I made the skiis out of lexan and they work great. They do not stick to the snow and climb out of the snow even when it is soft and fluffy. A simple elastic band is used to hold the tip up and a bolt is use as a stopper to control the height of the tip.




www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbtiS3jtXlQ

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 12:37 AM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for posting Gary.

I understand you dont fly that bird in the winter anymore.. but if you were to do it again.. What would you different? Wider or Longer skis? seemed to belly out there in the deep stuff

Got any dimension you can post please. pics?

I love winter flying! Been doing it long time now..but never with a turbine or a plane as heavy as the spirnt all fueled up.

Trevor

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 1:02 AM   
luv2flyrc



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Status: offline 		Problem is retracting your skiis

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 1:08 AM   
HAMMERDOWN



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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 1:12 AM   
Vettster


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luv2flyrc

Problem is retracting your skiis

Mike 

Not if the struts retract vertical.. So what if they poke a hole thru the top of the wings

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 1:29 AM   
smchale



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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saunders-Roe_SR.A/1



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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 4:30 AM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Its already been done Sean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6c-LweM-VM

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 4:54 AM   
Gary Arthur



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vettster

Thanks for posting Gary.

I understand you dont fly that bird in the winter anymore.. but if you were to do it again.. What would you different? Wider or Longer skis? seemed to belly out there in the deep stuff

Got any dimension you can post please. pics?

I love winter flying! Been doing it long time now..but never with a turbine or a plane as heavy as the spirnt all fueled up.

Trevor


I still fly the same jet on the same skiis every year. I would not make the skiis any different. They work very well. As I mentioned earlier, they will lift right out of the snow as you start moving.

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< Message edited by Gary Arthur -- 12/28/2012 11:57 PM >

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 4:58 AM   
Gary Arthur



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quote:

ORIGINAL: luv2flyrc

Problem is retracting your skiis

Mike 


I have spring air gear. I do not fill the air intentionally so I cant retract them out of habit.

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 7:14 AM   
gagnomchae


 

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Status: offline 		The only thing is you do not have brakes as seen near the end of the video when I was trying to get just a little closer.

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 12:15 PM   
colmo-RCU



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Status: offline 		Jet A and jet A1 have a freezing point of -40 C, which is equal to -40 F, incidentally. It is required that the fuel be kept over this temp, even if antifreeze aditives are used, so non aviation kero should be around the same temperature. I wouldn't worry about the fuel freezing on you, you'll freeze first. I've never seen snow, but hopefully will as I have a flight to Toronto in Jan, hurray!!!! I must say flying out of it looks a lot of fun. Good luck

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 1:07 PM   
smchale



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vettster

Its already been done Sean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6c-LweM-VM


Looks like a nice conversion. That should work on the snow too.
Not sure how I feel about a guy smoking a cigarette picking up the plane....

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 2:43 PM   
essyou35


 

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Status: offline 		One thing I would be concerned about is the turbine sucking in some ice crystals on take off or landing, you will get compressor damage from that.

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 5:40 PM   
sieze2


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: essyou35

One thing I would be concerned about is the turbine sucking in some ice crystals on take off or landing, you will get compressor damage from that.


Most commercial turbine fly through clouds full of ice crystals everyday. I wouldn't worry about it.

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 8:09 PM   
essyou35


 

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Status: offline 		Commercial compressors are a lot bigger and stronger. They also routinely get chipped as well. These chips are easiliy blended but on our small comrpessors they will be ruined.

But I dont care go for it. We cant do it in the US with skis unless you have a brake somehow.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sieze2


quote:

ORIGINAL: essyou35

One thing I would be concerned about is the turbine sucking in some ice crystals on take off or landing, you will get compressor damage from that.


Most commercial turbine fly through clouds full of ice crystals everyday. I wouldn't worry about it.



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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/27/2012 11:27 PM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Im not to worried about it essyou35. The intakes are well in front of the main gear and high up. The gear bays are sealed. Think sod field As for brakes.. It sucks that you guys in the US should need brakes even for winter flying. Your missing out! I have a 250 acer sod field to land on, so I dont think it will be a problem. I just wont aim at the pits/vehicals or objects on the ground. Like I said.. I have been winter flying for many years and know how it feels to have no brakes on a slippery surface.

Thanks for input though

Trevor

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/28/2012 4:32 AM   
flyinfool1



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Status: offline 		Per the AMA 510-A
quote:

the model shall be able to come to a controlled stop on
command with the engine at idle on a level hard surface.

If i drop my jet to idle with the skis on, it will come to a complete stop. Especially if it is on concrete or asphalt (hard level surface).
So if you put your skis on and place the plane on a level hard surface at idle it should not move.......

My R54 with skis on snow stops faster than it does with wheels on grass.
since it takes a lot of throttle to get it moving, or keep it moving, I can command a stop by dropping to idle.

On hard ice you can use wheels but the brakes will not do any better than skis for stopping.

As far as wear to the compressor, there is none that I can detect. I did a thorough check with a magnifying glass after running it.


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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/28/2012 11:58 PM   
Gary Arthur



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Status: offline 		I added a few pics above.

I had a couple flights today on about 8" of snow. The only other fliers where the heli guys.

http://youtu.be/Ls4z5-qISqo



< Message edited by Gary Arthur -- 12/29/2012 2:14 AM >

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/29/2012 12:29 AM   
Vettster


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Gary.. Thats what Im after

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/29/2012 4:02 AM   
Boomerang1



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Status: online 		Thanks for posting that Gary, looks like fun.

Once it comes down ''off the step'' it slows down really quickly in the soft snow.

A lot of people dismiss the humble Boomerang but for a fly anywhere, any time, any conditions
jet they can't be beat.

I remember when some A$$holes on trail bikes dug up our strip a friend turned up with giant
tundra tires on his, kept on flying. - John.

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RE: Turbines and Winter flying - 12/31/2012 10:12 PM   
K-A


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vettster

Something like this... Minus all the mucking about in the begining of the video. Skip to the 5:00min mark for the take off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyc5_Sj0QUE


He He you found my video of my boomer, yes it is fun in winter times, temperature usually no problems, I set the limit to -15 degres due to plastic details, engine and fuel system no problems. Engine runs better with moore power in the cold conditions. Cover inlets on the bottom side of fuselage due to light snow can suck into the fuselage. Use ducktape to cover wheel wells for landinggear to prevent this.
Use big skies that are well fastened due to the speed.

God luck

BRG K-A Sweden

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