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The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/26/2012 8:55 PM   
Jim Thomerson



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Status: offline 		I've heard of this on the forums. Now I have one. It looks like a glowplug, but has a disc of brass-bronze looking metal rather than a coil. Instructions, three pages of them, say it works by catalytic reaction with organic peroxides formed when either combines with hot air. I suppose some what analogous to the coil of a glowplug catalytic reaction with methyl alcohol. It is recommended for use with higher compression glow engines. The instructions look reasonable and knowledge based. One typo, I think, is the statement that a can of engine starting fluid will yield 2 pints of ether. From what I see on the forums, I think they meant to say 1/2 pint.

I have not tried it, but will do so and report. I have run glowplug engines on model diesel fuel with good results. Just leave the glow plug hooked to the battery until the engine gets warm enough to run smoothly. I don't think the ordinary glow plug has any sort of catalytic reaction with diesel fuel.

The gadget is said to be available from Collins Scientific, Inc in Oklahoma City, OK. I googled them and they do exist. There are long, short, and fourstroke plugs listed at different prices.

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/26/2012 9:15 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Jim think they have used existing technology thats been around for years my old Mercedes use a "glow plug" to start in cold weather looked like a calrod so did my chevy 1978 V-8 diesel solid rod attached to a screw in plug, hooked to a battery it glowed bright as a toaster element on the mercedes it went into the pre-combustion chamber martin
with the engine hot it must hold the heat, as you now years ago they had hot bulb engines heated with a torch marine and stationary

Post note after engine has started it is of course no longer energized for cold starts only a winter thing

< Message edited by AMB -- 12/26/2012 10:02 PM >

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/26/2012 9:35 PM   
soarrich



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Status: offline 		I bought "The gadget" it was a small piece of copper that went on the glow plug, it was $10.00 for a .01 idem, I don't remember if I even tried to use it, I know I felt ripped off.

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/26/2012 9:52 PM   
Jim Thomerson



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Status: offline 		There is nothing said in the instructions about using a battery on the Gadget.

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/26/2012 11:06 PM   
qazimoto


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson

I've heard of this on the forums. Now I have one. It looks like a glowplug, but has a disc of brass-bronze looking metal rather than a coil. Instructions, three pages of them, say it works by catalytic reaction with organic peroxides formed when either combines with hot air. I suppose some what analogous to the coil of a glowplug catalytic reaction with methyl alcohol.


Jim,

that reads like a pretty dodgy explanation for the model diesel engine ignition mechanism where rapid compression of the ether raises it's temperature to it's ignition point..

The following is from the Wiki entry for di-ethyl ether.

Peroxide formation

When stored in the presence of air or oxygen, ethers tend to form explosive peroxides, such as diethyl ether peroxide. The reaction is accelerated by light, metal catalysts, and aldehydes.

It seems that they're suggesting that the Cupreous metal gadget is the catalyst.

No doubt the hot air mentioned is actually Methane, extracted from male bovine waste product.



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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/26/2012 11:38 PM   
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Status: online 		years ago medical ether for inhalation anesthesia come in a screw top metal can it had a piece of copper in it to prevent peroxide formation back as kid in the early 50s this was the source of my ether for my drone diesel ( I worked in a drug store after school ) martin

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/27/2012 12:14 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AMB

years ago medical ether for inhalation anesthesia come in a screw top metal can it had a piece of copper in it to prevent peroxide formation back as kid in the early 50s this was the source of my ether for my drone diesel ( I worked in a drug store after school ) martin


Back in the mid nineties our local C/L clubs bought a 200 Litre steel drum of Ether from a local chemical supplier. Last year a friend gave me his stash from the group buy.

Five litres of Ether in a metal tin with a metal screw top of the type normally used to store lawn mower fuel.

I've been using it lately in my fuel. No sign of any colour change or deterioration at all. The can doesn't even leak.

I've come to the conclusion that peroxide formation most likely takes place when the Ether is being chemically processed rather than in storage.

Ray

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/27/2012 12:29 AM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Ray think you are right on that one, manufacturing of ether now does not have those issues, just a few years ago ordered in pt cans in the pharmacy I worked in pt cans made by HUMCO also got my acetone from them too this was industrial grade not medical use sold s solvents martin

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/27/2012 1:17 PM   
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		The Gadget is designed to work with Gadget Fuel which is primarily ether with about 20% castor and 5% ipn. I have some of the fuel made by RedMax. It provides very anemic performance since ether doesn't have much energy in it. I have two ot the gadget plugs I got from a Louis? in Long Island, NY. The two I have will work with 4.5 to 6 volts. It's one of those novel but impractical things.

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/27/2012 3:13 PM   
Hobbsy



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Sorry, picture loader not working.

< Message edited by Hobbsy -- 12/27/2012 11:46 PM >

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/27/2012 9:58 PM   
qazimoto


 

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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

The Gadget is designed to work with Gadget Fuel which is primarily ether with about 20% castor and 5% ipn. I have some of the fuel made by RedMax. It provides very anemic performance since ether doesn't have much energy in it. I have two ot the gadget plugs I got from a Louis? in Long Island, NY. The two I have will work with 4.5 to 6 volts. It's one of those novel but impractical things.



So it does need an electrical current to work?

How about some pictures of the unit its self?

Ray

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/27/2012 10:15 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		Evening all I would think any high compression glow engine with a 70-80% ether content would run regardless of the type of glow plug, ( and not lit) Hobbsy has a Saito 80 that would start and run on conventional diesel fuel maybe 30-35% range of ether. Idle could be a issue in some however

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/28/2012 12:27 AM   
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		The picture loader is being worked on, I have the pictures ready to upload.

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/28/2012 8:47 AM   
brokenenglish


 

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Status: offline 		We're re-inventing the wheel. It's been known since the late fifties (at least) that glow engines run on diesel fuel. You may have to leave the leads connected until the engine warms up. I remember trying it on a green head K&B .19 around 50 years ago, and it worked OK. However, I can't see any advantage. I think fuel consumption is lower, but the fuel is more expensive and nowadays more difficult to obtain.

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/28/2012 1:36 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		OK ALL Think I had this in several years on my 4 stokes I run a little diesel in them after done flying them, glow plug on, to power rinse out any glow fuel have never had a rust or
corrison issue Kero and castor act s the after run oil martin


in one of my OS instruction sheets it states rinse in ,soak the engines ( glow) in kero for long term storage)

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/28/2012 2:16 PM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		interesting how this subject resurfaces from time to time. Some of you were discussing it way back in 2005 in this thread here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3226971/tm.htm

I suspect that "The Gadget" is just a copper plug filling in the hole in a glow plug. You could likely make a solid brass plug to replace the glow plug to acheive the same results too.

The ether/oil fuel was used to good effect in the DRONE engines made back in 1947/48. But using ether and oil would be pretty hard on a engine not designed to be more robust in handling the harsher combustion effects.

I think that the Lenova Energy Cell glow plug replacement offers much more useable features over "The Gadget" for model engine diesel conversions.




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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/28/2012 10:47 PM  1 votes
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		Gadget plugs, at last.

Attachments
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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/28/2012 11:10 PM   
qazimoto


 

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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Gadget plugs, at last.



So essentially they're a less effective miniature version of a diesel push/pull head fitted into a standard 1/4" x 32 tpi glowplug case.

Do some of them have a glowplug element as well?

Ray

< Message edited by qazimoto -- 12/28/2012 11:52 PM >

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/30/2012 1:25 AM   
controlliner



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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/30/2012 1:38 AM  1 votes
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		The Gadget plugs are not adjustable.

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/30/2012 6:56 AM   
qazimoto


 

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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

The Gadget plugs are not adjustable.


So if the instructions don't mention connecting to an electrical current, and they're not adjustable so as to vary the combustion chamber volume,

then the $64 question becomes "how do they work, if in fact they do at all?"



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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/30/2012 1:04 PM  1 votes
Hobbsy



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Status: offline 		They do work but mostly with the Gadget fuel which is 65% ether and no petrol.

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/30/2012 4:28 PM   
brokenenglish


 

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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

They do work but mostly with the Gadget fuel which is 65% ether and no petrol.


You don't need any kind of gadget for that, it's called a fixed compression diesel...
I've been using fixed compression diesels since the early eighties, and the fuel ether content required various between about 50% and 75%, depending on the engine compression and ambient temperature. No "gadget" is required, unless it just plugs the glow plug hole and gives about the right compression for diesel operation...

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/30/2012 4:47 PM   
AMB


 

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Status: online 		BROKEN ENGLISH agree 100% any engine with decent compression should run on 65-70% ether you could have a cap screw in the glow plug hole and it would still run The Gadjet
is a waste of time and money it would work without a battery martin

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RE: The gadget for converting glow to diesel - 12/30/2012 5:12 PM   
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ORIGINAL: controlliner

Lanova Cell?



They discussed it here in this thread.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_900816/tm.htm
and
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7883005/anchors_7966259/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#7966259

The Lanova Enrgery Cell is a variable compression sub-chamber for a model four stroke diesel engine. But it could be used with two stroke engines too.













< Message edited by Hobbsy -- 12/30/2012 10:55 PM >

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