Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part Deux

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Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part Deux - 12/27/2012 10:56 PM

eddieC

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I enjoyed the original thread, TBH didn't really see the reasons given for closing it down, so thought I'd resurrect it.

Please play nice now, or it will meet the same demise as its predecessor.

And stay on topic...,

Oh, a hangar is for airplanes. Hangers are for clothes.

ARFs are sort of a necessary evil IMO, and I admit to owning a few. In fact, two of my favorite planes are ARFs - Extreme Flight profile 3D birds, an Edge 540 and a Chinn Yak. The Yak was briefly available as a kit, so the ARF was my only realistic option. I would prefer to build though.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/27/2012 11:05 PM

Fly RC II

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Hi Eddiec,

Someday I hope to build/own a Carden that will be my aerobatic machine for a few years for IMAC. I'm still in basic and until I get a little more proficient putting together my birds on the flight line so that won't come out of the sky on their own,

I will take on the task. Hopefully Cardens will still be available. Otherwise, if I get back into the work force soon, I might be able to have someone build it for me. My shop is pretty small and limited to what I can build in there.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/27/2012 11:44 PM

RCKen

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When I close a thread down I do so for very good reasons. I don't do it on a whim and I don't do it just because I was in a funky mood. There are a variety of reasons why I close down a thread, but you can rest assured that a lot of thought goes into to the decision to close a thread. In most cases a thread is closed because I feel that the members have no intentions of abiding by the rules of RCU and playing nicely. That was the case when I closed down the original thread on this subject. If one or two members of a thread are causing problems I will normally deal with those members and not punish the entire thread. But in this case there were so many people involved with the thread being dragged down the easiest course of action was to close the entire thread.

Normally when I do shut down a thread I don't allow members to restart the thread, for whatever reason. In most cases like this I would simply close down any additional threads started back up. However, in this case I'm going to give this subject one more chance as I think it's a subject to be discusses. But, I'm going to put out a warning here and now, and I would suggest that all those that this affects to heed my warning this time as I am not going to be playing any games.

For those that were causing all the problems that got the first thread shut down (and you know who you are), I would suggest that you refrain from participating in this thread.... period. You have already proven that you can't discuss the issue at hand without resorting attacking those that you don't agree with. On the other hand if you do choose to participate in this discussion I would suggest that you make sure you follow all of RCU's rules. Because if I see any more of the immature childish crap I saw in the last thread you will be placed on Moderated Status and will stay there for a very long time!! Plain and simple. If you can't abide by RCU's rules you will be put into a status where we can watch what you do and say on our forums. I'm tired of seeing the actions of a few that can't seem to work and play well with others spoil a thread for everybody else on RCU. It's your choice about how we proceed from here on out, but please do not think that I won't do what I say here.

For everybody else that wants to discuss this issue, I apologize that I have to make statements like this in public. But unfortunately there are a few here that think they are above the rules and can do whatever they want.

Ken

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/28/2012 8:18 AM

wayne d

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All I build are kits. Been building for 30 odd years. I will admit that I owned one (1) arf about 20 years ago. I believe it as an extra or something like that.
Don't get me wrong, there are some great ARF's out there, but I enjoy taking a box of wood and a set of plans and creating something nobody else has, at least in my world.
It’s a lot of work to create a flying model that is as scale as possible, but worth it in the end.
Scratch building a 33% S2 Pitts right now and a 1/3 scale sopwith pup from BUSA.
Right now I have about 5 months in the Pitts and it’s just about finished. And that’s only weekends and a few nights here and there.
Kit building to me challenges the mind to think and plan every aspect, keeps the mind young.
I would never put anybody down or frown upon anyone who owns an ARF; it’s just not for me. Besides I work hard for my paycheck and prefer not to give it to a foreign company who may not be here tomorrow for support.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/28/2012 11:21 AM 1 votes

Woody218

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I have been in the hobby since I was six years old, and that was 51 years ago! I build from kits, I also assemble arfs. To me, the important point isn't how the plane got here, what's important to me is people flying, getting together, the friendships I have with fellow modelers. The one thing we all have in common is, we like to fly! I also have a full scale pilot's license, the planes I fly are arfs, built by Cessna, Piper and Mooney. Some guys build their own from plans, or from a kit of parts. Either way, they all fly.

Some people develop the attitude that because they built it from a kit, that makes them a "better" modeler. I just don't see it that way.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/28/2012 9:39 PM

init4fun

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Woody218

I have been in the hobby since I was six years old, and that was 51 years ago! I build from kits, I also assemble arfs. To me, the important point isn't how the plane got here, what's important to me is people flying, getting together, the friendships I have with fellow modelers. The one thing we all have in common is, we like to fly! I also have a full scale pilot's license, the planes I fly are arfs, built by Cessna, Piper and Mooney. Some guys build their own from plans, or from a kit of parts. Either way, they all fly.

Some people develop the attitude that because they built it from a kit, that makes them a ''better'' modeler. I just don't see it that way.

I agree 100% with this !

In the other thread , I even went so far as to post a couple of shots of some of my ARFs , but the bickering continued unabated . The attitude you describe , is the attitude that I call the "I'm better 'N you cause I grow my own Balsa" attitude , and it's the single most toxic thing to see in action . How sad that some would use a hobby like ours to demean and alienate others just to attempt to elevate their own sense of self worth . I'm glad there are some guys out here like Woody218 and others who see the fun side of the hobby is what matters most to the guy holding the TX ....

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/28/2012 11:18 PM

Bill G

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quote:

ORIGINAL: init4fun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Woody218

I have been in the hobby since I was six years old, and that was 51 years ago! I build from kits, I also assemble arfs. To me, the important point isn't how the plane got here, what's important to me is people flying, getting together, the friendships I have with fellow modelers. The one thing we all have in common is, we like to fly! I also have a full scale pilot's license, the planes I fly are arfs, built by Cessna, Piper and Mooney. Some guys build their own from plans, or from a kit of parts. Either way, they all fly.

Some people develop the attitude that because they built it from a kit, that makes them a ''better'' modeler. I just don't see it that way.

I agree 100% with this !

In the other thread , I even went so far as to post a couple of shots of some of my ARFs , but the bickering continued unabated . The attitude you describe , is the attitude that I call the ''I'm better 'N you cause I grow my own Balsa'' attitude , and it's the single most toxic thing to see in action . How sad that some would use a hobby like ours to demean and alienate others just to attempt to elevate their own sense of self worth . I'm glad there are some guys out here like Woody218 and others who see the fun side of the hobby is what matters most to the guy holding the TX ....

Some people develop the attitude that because they built it from a kit, that makes them a ''better'' modeler. I just don't see it that way.
Agreed too. Us scratch builders can top the kit builders hands down.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 12:10 AM 1 votes

combatpigg

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I will only buy a kit if I think that the kit has something new to teach me. This is why I bought the Goldberg Ultimate Bipe when it first came out. At that time it was the only semi-scale plane in that price/size range I knew of that was capable of kife edge loops.
Next kit that taught me something new was the Morris Hobbies SuDoKoi. This was my 1st 3D profile. designed by Tom Stryker, this plane looked like nothing I'd ever built before for RC...it was built more like a control line stunter.
Since then I picked up a Q500 ARF from Big Bruce and that plane helped get me up to speed on composite construction and racing design.
I'm sure there are plenty of other's in this hobby who have "used" kit building to enhance their scratch building and engineering skills.
If I was to ever get into the current fad of giant scale, I'd first buy either an ARF or a kit to get familiar with the size and strength requirements for that scale, before attempting any homebrewed designs.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 1:09 AM

partisan

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When I first started getting into airplanesa couple years ago, I talked to my uncle who had been away from it for several years, he always built kits or from plans. We decided to get into it together. I went on eBay and found a huge selection of cheap airframes that seemed easy to build. I was on a budget at the time so didn't pounce on the first deal I found.

My uncle tried for weeks to get me to build a .60 size Ace Bingo. I kept resisting, then he finally convinced , me to take it home. I built the plane, while I learned on the sim and a trainer.

Now I don't really consider arfs anymore, I build kits an have done one plans build. I have one foam rtf that was given to me, but I have decided to give it away to a friend trying to learn to fly. I have found time after the family goes to bed to get a few hours of build time in before I get tired.

My uncle has old kits he is still trying to finish, 18 year projects, he has also bought many of the cheap arfs from eBay, he does arfs cause he has no time to build, he is very busy and always has too much on his plate.

People I fly with mainly fly arfs, I am the only one that still builds kits. I give my uncle a hard time about his planes, but he knows I am just kidding.

When it all boils down to it, we all like to burn nitro, gas, or electrons. Who cares how you get it done, just have fun doing it, and respect the other people that do it with you, or you might find yourself trying to enjoy a "group" hobby by your self.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 1:23 AM

overbuild

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There are not many kits avilable to purchase and build anymore. I know it has been brought up before but I just can not undrestand why the arf builders can not package the arf as a lazer cut kit and supply it to the indivual who wants to build a model. Most lazer cut parts are self jigging and a simple instruction booklet would be all that is needed.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 1:47 AM

init4fun

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With all due respect to Overbuild , there ARE still plenty of kits to be had , they're just not down at the local hobby shop sitting on shelves for handy pickup anymore . As mentioned already in the closed predecessor thread to this one , there are literally dozens of kit cutters still in operation , provided ya don't mind buying on line . I agree and am like most in that I like to see and examine a product before I hand over cash , but with the LHS's on the decline and on line shopping taking over , it's a lucky soul indeed who has even one LHS , and here in southeast Massachusetts I'm blessed with 3 really good ones . In fact , my most recent kit built , a House of Balsa 1/2A Stealth Sport , came from my LHS known as Hanson Hobby . I had one of those Thunder Tiger TT.07 engines hanging around and decided a purple headed engine needed a purple plane to go with the look . If you ever get a chance to build a kit from House of Balsa you won't be disappointed

Do a search on kit makers , you will find more than any builder could build in a lifetime

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 2:21 AM

combatpigg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: overbuild

There are not many kits avilable to purchase and build anymore. I know it has been brought up before but I just can not undrestand why the arf builders can not package the arf as a lazer cut kit and supply it to the indivual who wants to build a model. Most lazer cut parts are self jigging and a simple instruction booklet would be all that is needed.

It would be interesting to know what the difference in cost to the manufacturer would be to just throw some kits together off to the side. It seems like they could charge a "pretty penny" for the kits just to fill that niche and without disrupting their ARF production. A kit ought to have fewer consumer related problems [than an ARF]..since the builder of the kit assumes responsibility for the end product.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 3:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

It would be interesting to know what the difference in cost to the manufacturer would be to just throw some kits together off to the side. It seems like they could charge a ''pretty penny'' for the kits just to fill that niche and without disrupting their ARF production. A kit ought to have fewer consumer related problems [than an ARF]..since the builder of the kit assumes responsibility for the end product.

Careful there, CP. Someone might think you are addressing economics, a subject that frightens and offends some folks.

Jess

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 3:14 AM

combatpigg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jessiej

quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

It would be interesting to know what the difference in cost to the manufacturer would be to just throw some kits together off to the side. It seems like they could charge a ''pretty penny'' for the kits just to fill that niche and without disrupting their ARF production. A kit ought to have fewer consumer related problems [than an ARF]..since the builder of the kit assumes responsibility for the end product.

Careful there, CP. Someone might think you are addressing economics, a subject that frightens and offends some folks.

Jess

"Economics" is taboo because it is a direct reflection upon the people who "make it so"...

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 5:24 AM

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You would be astonished at the number of control line kits available right now, covering designs over 5 decades. If you have only seen Sig and Brodak, you missed seeing the iceberg Captain Smith. With laser cutting production runs in the dozens start to make sense. Unfortunately so many RC designs have been sucked into that black hole near Chicago never to be seen again as they aquire and aquire the kit makers of yesterday. They won't move on a kit unless they are going to sell 500 or 1000 units and that just doesn't fly today. You could buy kits cheaply on Ebray, but now many are selling for 10 times what they are really worth to people that won't build them anyway. Hopeful RC suppliers will see what the control line fliers have done and unique models will again populate the flight line again.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 8:17 AM

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This is why I bought the Goldberg Ultimate Bipe when it first came out.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 11:45 AM 1 votes

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I have about fifty kits in my stock right now. I have everything from 1/2a to BVM jets put away because kits are hard to find. I buy and sell them as a secondary hobby and give the trainer kits to children when they show an interest in our hobby and WANT to build a plane. They usually come over with mom or dad and we build on Saturday mornings. Today was to start a new youngster but our weather is going to be bad today so we will start new week. He will start as many did with a simple HLG and then a rubber powered plane from Guillows. They have a simple four step series of basic planes that a kid can build and not get frustrated. Now, the question is there are kits available so why don't people build anymore? For me the reasons that have been given is why build a kit when a arf is cheaper in the long run. I don't have the tools to build from a kit. I don't know how to cover a plane. I don't have the time. Here's what I have found. Arfs are cheaper at the start, but break one and then they are not cheaper whe you have to buy a wing instead of fixing the one you have. Most of us didn't own all the tools we have when we started, we had an xacto knife maybe and most hobbies have equipment you collect over time. A lot of the people who say they don't have the time to build have plenty of time to do other time consuming hobbies they just want success on demand and when they fail they move on to another subject. Covering a plane is a learned skill by experience and I am still learning tricks after modeling for 40 plus years. I am 53 year old guy who is a professional modeler by trade and very active in our hobby and willing to teach those interested. So in the end why don't people build kits anymore? Those that want to,do and those that want to just fly by planes finished or get arf's/rtf's ; you can't make someone interested in what we like to do as builders.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 1:06 PM

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I still do allot of building but I sure miss going to the hobby shop having all those kit choices right at my finger tips.

Bob

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 2:34 PM

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I think it's mostly a generational thing. I don't think I've met anybody else my age (31) that builds kits. The main reasons that I build are that I enjoy building (started with plastic kits at a young age), and ARF quality has been spotty for me. Obvious turn-offs to building include time and money, both of which seem to be in short supply with my generation. Maybe when they make it possible to control the build process from a smart phone things will pick up....

PS: I love my "dumb" phone

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 3:13 PM

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Let me get this right. He starts the thread again and specifically says that arfs are evil. And you dont see that as the issue of causing the arguments? Thats exactly what the fuss is about, that attitude and I will always rebut it.

You can ban me whatever, your are simply taking sides and allowing one group to bash another, and supressing another group from responding.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCKen

When I close a thread down I do so for very good reasons. I don't do it on a whim and I don't do it just because I was in a funky mood. There are a variety of reasons why I close down a thread, but you can rest assured that a lot of thought goes into to the decision to close a thread. In most cases a thread is closed because I feel that the members have no intentions of abiding by the rules of RCU and playing nicely. That was the case when I closed down the original thread on this subject. If one or two members of a thread are causing problems I will normally deal with those members and not punish the entire thread. But in this case there were so many people involved with the thread being dragged down the easiest course of action was to close the entire thread.

Normally when I do shut down a thread I don't allow members to restart the thread, for whatever reason. In most cases like this I would simply close down any additional threads started back up. However, in this case I'm going to give this subject one more chance as I think it's a subject to be discusses. But, I'm going to put out a warning here and now, and I would suggest that all those that this affects to heed my warning this time as I am not going to be playing any games.

For those that were causing all the problems that got the first thread shut down (and you know who you are), I would suggest that you refrain from participating in this thread.... period. You have already proven that you can't discuss the issue at hand without resorting attacking those that you don't agree with. On the other hand if you do choose to participate in this discussion I would suggest that you make sure you follow all of RCU's rules. Because if I see any more of the immature childish crap I saw in the last thread you will be placed on Moderated Status and will stay there for a very long time!! Plain and simple. If you can't abide by RCU's rules you will be put into a status where we can watch what you do and say on our forums. I'm tired of seeing the actions of a few that can't seem to work and play well with others spoil a thread for everybody else on RCU. It's your choice about how we proceed from here on out, but please do not think that I won't do what I say here.

For everybody else that wants to discuss this issue, I apologize that I have to make statements like this in public. But unfortunately there are a few here that think they are above the rules and can do whatever they want.

Ken

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 4:12 PM

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Just out of curiosity;
Where does a plane that comes in a box as a fiberglass fuselage and v.stab with a bunch of loose ribs and spars for a stick built wing and h.stab fall? (ie. some Ziroli offerings) Would that be an ARF kit? (arf fuse/kit wing?)
How about if the wing and stab were foam core? Then does one get to say they "built" the wing any more so than some of the guys who re-sheet or just plain sheet an open or semi-open constrction arf wing?

The lines get so blurred in many cases...As for me me I dig them all and if a guy says he "built" his Arf or someone had a classic "kit" built for them, I'm just happy to enjoy the sky with them at the field.

Kit, ARF, Foamy, glow, gas, electric, Fixed wing, Heli, 3D style, pattern practicing, just burnin' holes in the sky, beginner, advanced, expert, kid, teen, middle age, senior, girl, guy, race, religion, political leanings, single, married, divorced....how many differences are there between who is at the field flying that we should pick one to denegrate over the others?
Sure, I will probably approach the stranger with a warbird quicker than the heli guy, but I'd lend either a tool or a hand at the pcnic tables just as quickly and enjoy chatting with both.

I build from kits, hand cut and scratch build, as well as bash ARFs...all great fun in the process they all look good in the air

....and no matter how they started out, some of them over the years have fit nicely into the same trash bag at some point regardless

Cheers!!

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 4:14 PM

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quote:

I have about fifty kits in my stock right now.

Yes Ron, you have reached the tipping point. From here forward, you will not be able to keep track of the number and will start finding kits stashed away that you forgot even buying.

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 4:37 PM

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Well, guess I might as well chime in. It seems that all of the posts will be speculation if we try to answer "Why don't many people build RC kits anymore" for someone other than our self.

So, if I were to not build from kits anymore (I'm too impatient to build from scratch), I suppose these would be some reasons:

1. I'm impatient
2. I have other interests to occupy my time
3. Building a kit version of a plane that is available in an ARF can be more expensive.
4. When I start a project I'm gung -ho, but after a while I loose that excitement and it can be a chore to get motivated again.
5. I don't like covering, I'm getting better at it but it's my least favorite part of the build.

I love ARFs. Opening up a box and seeing that beautiful new airplane ready for a little bit of glue and a few screws.... Pretty simple.

I love this hobby! Building and flying...

Build well!
Ben

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 4:43 PM

GerKonig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sensei

I still do allot of building but I sure miss going to the hobby shop having all those kit choices right at my finger tips.

Bob

Well, sure, you went to the hobby shop and they had kits. But the way the kits get to the hands of the buyers have changed. Period. We have to adapt. The kits are still out there waiting to be purchased.

Last night (maybe it was something I ate) I felt the sudden urge to build a Pitenpol. So I did some research, and soon enough I found a kit cutter that had the size I wanted, and at a reasonable price.

There are some small companies that manufacture kits, that you will not find in the LHS. I think that the problem is not the lack of availability of kits. Nope, you just have to look harder. Now it is very possible that with time, the "big names" will stop manufacturing kits altogether. For a while, because someone small will start manufacturing them. After all we live in a market economy. If there is a need, there will be a supplier. Yes there are smaller number of builders, but the niche market will always be there. Maybe the timewill come where you will only be able to get balsa from 2 or 3 places, so be it. There always will be a demand for it.

I have a Balsa USA and a Sig clipped wing. Would I build another one? No, I most probably would get the new Horizon 1/4 scale PA-18 if I urgently NEED a PA-18 1/4 scale. On the other hand, yes, I would build any WWI Balsa USA 1/4 or 1/3 kits. Well, maybe I would build a 1/3 scale PA-!8:-)

This is not only a wonderful hobby, there is something for everyone. The secret is to have fun with whatever we do. But, like every other activity in life, you have jackarses that think that only what they do is of value, or what they do is better, etc. We see them in all walks of life. They cannot help themselves, I guess you have to treat them like trees (you walk around a tree, and keep going).

Gerry

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RE: Why don't many people build RC kits any more, Part ... - 12/29/2012 4:57 PM

combatpigg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brockettman

Well, guess I might as well chime in. It seems that all of the posts will be speculation if we try to answer ''Why don't many people build RC kits anymore'' for someone other than our self.

So, if I were to not build from kits anymore (I'm too impatient to build from scratch), I suppose these would be some reasons:

1. I'm impatient
2. I have other interests to occupy my time
3. Building a kit version of a plane that is available in an ARF can be more expensive.
4. When I start a project I'm gung -ho, but after a while I loose that excitement and it can be a chore to get motivated again.
5. I don't like covering, I'm getting better at it but it's my least favorite part of the build.

I love ARFs. Opening up a box and seeing that beautiful new airplane ready for a little bit of glue and a few screws.... Pretty simple.

I love this hobby! Building and flying...

Build well!
Ben

Ben, I'm with you when it comes to covering. I bought the "Mr Monkote" video to gain some pointers, but covering still remains a boring chore. I'd love to visit an ARF factory just to see how many planes they can get covered by lunch time. Imagine doing nothing but that day in and day out.

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