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Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 1:37 AM

JohnP2

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I'll get right to the point. I spent 120+ on a "twin motor ofna truggy" starter box and it will not even turn over my new OS .25 engine.
1. Batteries were FULLY chargedat
2. Turning the flywheel the correct way (when standing at rear and facing front, left to right)
3. Fried both my connectors on my 7.2 battery sticks (melted them)

Questions:

1. At this point, can I convert my O.S. .25 engine to a pull-start......or do I need to take it apart and **** with the compression so that the ****ty-ass starter box has enough torque to turn over the motor?

Thanks

< Message edited by JohnP2 -- 1/1/2013 7:04 PM >

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 2:19 AM

phmaximus

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It's all good, it's a new fresh tight motor, once it's run in it will be fine.

To help getting it started for the first few tanks heat up the engine with hair dryer or heat gun..

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 2:20 AM

phmaximus

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It's a pain to swap from bump start to pull start, u will need a new crankshaft aswell as the pull starter assembly

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 2:40 AM

JohnP2

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I heated the engine until it glowed. I even removed the heat sink to relieve all compression. Even then, I can still barely turn the flywheel with a wrench.

The starter box is not coming even close to starting the turning over the engine. I even tried the starter box on quite a few broken in engines....nothing.

At this point, I feel I have given up. The past year was fun, but I understand engineeringly impossible when I see it, and there is NO WAY this starter box will ever turn over this engine.

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 2:59 AM

supertib

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnP2

I'll get right to the point. I spent 120+ on a ''twin motor ofna truggy'' starter box and it will not even turn over my new OS .25 engine.
1. Batteries were FULLY chargedat
2. Turning the flywheel the correct way (when standing at rear and facing front, left to right)
3. Fried both my connectors on my 7.2 battery sticks (melted them)

Questions:

1. At this point, can I convert my O.S. .25 engine to a pull-start......or do I need to take it apart and **** with the compression so that the ****ty-ass starter box has enough torque to turn over the motor?

Thanks

Its your batteries or the aligment or both..a properly powered and aligened OFNA box will crank that OS 25 over like nothing.... If you need advice feel free to call me..the devil is in the details ....

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 3:29 AM

mattster1971

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnP2

I heated the engine until it glowed. I even removed the heat sink to relieve all compression. Even then, I can still barely turn the flywheel with a wrench.

The starter box is not coming even close to starting the turning over the engine. I even tried the starter box on quite a few broken in engines....nothing.

At this point, I feel I have given up. The past year was fun, but I understand engineeringly impossible when I see it, and there is NO WAY this starter box will ever turn over this engine.

John, that sounds like something is wrong with the box itself, especially if it wouldn't turn over the broken in engines. I would return it and get a replacement.

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 4:12 AM

nitroexpress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnP2

I'll get right to the point. I spent 120+ on a "twin motor ofna truggy" starter box and it will not even turn over my new OS .25 engine.
1. Batteries were FULLY chargedat
2. Turning the flywheel the correct way (when standing at rear and facing front, left to right)
3. Fried both my connectors on my 7.2 battery sticks (melted them)

Questions:

1. At this point, can I convert my O.S. .25 engine to a pull-start......or do I need to take it apart and **** with the compression so that the ****ty-ass starter box has enough torque to turn over the motor?

Thanks

The Ofna starter box is pretty much the gold standard of boxes. It has been known to start Caterpillar Diesels.

Frying your connectors shows that you were pulling excessive amperage. You've got some binding in your setup.

Can we assume that besides heating the engine, that you loosened the glowplug?

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 6:45 AM

HerrSavage

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Something is not right somewhere. Alignment, weak batteries, or something..

Deep breath, say "uuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............" a few times, and try again.

Starterboxes really are the most reliable way to start an engine. And your Ofna one is the best(and that OS 25 is one of the best engines..)

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 7:03 AM

big JC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnP2

, I can still barely turn the flywheel with a wrench.

I don't have a fraction of the experience as these other guys, but IMHOP, if you can barely turn the engine over with a wrench something is wrong there. Maybe fried the the leads because of that and is why the box won't turn over a broken in engine now.

You'll figure it though, frustrating as heck when you want it to work NOW and doesn't but you'll be a wiser man in the end.

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 7:12 AM

HerrSavage

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If the engine seizes up, normally it's the piston being stuck in the top of the sleeve. When this happens, flip the truck over and carefully pry the flywheel over with your tuning screwdriver. Preheat and try again. Loosening the plug can help too, but I don't like messing with plugs too much if the engine is hot - can strip the threads.

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 5:54 PM

cumquat

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well the connector bit is easy enough to diagnose, they are tamiya connectors! you can melt those by glancing at them too quickly. replacing them with bullet/banana connectors or deans plugs will solve that issue and keep it from happening again. i dont know much of anything about starter boxes but i'm going to guess the wheel is rubbing something. just got a feeling.

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 6:05 PM

sparky 25

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John,

Check that your flywheel isn't touching the engine casing,

Sometimes the wrong collet will allow the flywheel to be tightened up against the crank case,

Can't think of any other reason that a new starter box would not turn over a new 25 engine,

The last starter box I had was made by tm and I was able to start up an os max 61 sx heli engine,

that os61 I had custom fitted into my kyosho usa1 nitro truck, and it was serious on compression being a ringed engine,

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 12/31/2012 11:53 PM

JohnP2

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Hey all, first...thanks for everyone"s help I took it to my LHS today, and my "guy" there who I will only let touch my stuff figured it out. in fact, Sparkly25 got it right

This is very embarassing, but I did not have a collet on the engine shaft. The kit nor the engine came with one, and I put the clutch system engine together at like 2am and did not even think about the collet. While I have not tried it on the bump box yet, the flywheel does turn by hand down :wnen I decrease the compression.

Gonna splice the wires on the starter box and 7.2's. I was up so late with it last night, I fell asleep in my workshop and my wife woke me up at 1am.

Stupid mistake on my end, but it is what it is. Thanks again, and I'll report back once I get it started!

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 12:13 AM

SyCo_VeNoM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnP2

Hey all, first...thanks for everyone''s help I took it to my LHS today, and my ''guy'' there who I will only let touch my stuff figured it out. in fact, Sparkly25 got it right

This is very embarassing, but I did not have a collet on the engine shaft. The kit nor the engine came with one, and I put the clutch system engine together at like 2am and did not even think about the collet. While I have not tried it on the bump box yet, the flywheel does turn by hand down :wnen I decrease the compression.

Gonna splice the wires on the starter box and 7.2's. I was up so late with it last night, I fell asleep in my workshop and my wife woke me up at 1am.

Stupid mistake on my end, but it is what it is. Thanks again, and I'll report back once I get it started!

happens to everyone now and then.

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 12:21 AM

phmaximus

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This just goes to show how hard things can be to diognoise over the internet, all we can do is guess...

It might be worth going over the whole car, been new to the hobby and building ur first build late at night, there might some more supprises yet to come.

glad to see u have it allworked out, no u dident bend the flywheel when wrenching it?

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 1:17 AM

nitroexpress

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Yea, the problem was nailed on your pullstart thread.

Occam's razor lives!

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 4:47 AM

JohnP2

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An update to this. After inserting the collet, the flywheels moves correct by hand, but starter box loses power trying io start it. I keep draining the batterries. Set one on mt Onyx hub and another to the electircal adapter from my Savage. After about 45 minutes the Onyx started on it's trickle charge (meaning battery was powered). Still not enough POWER to turn it over. Going to take it to the trsck now to see if anyone there can check it out and maybe let me use one of their starter boxe, it'ss on it. I have three of these batteries, and have mixed and matched.

I know I'll get it worked out. Just have to go through everything. Funny the one thing I was least worried about (starting the engine) has been the most challenging. In a way it's one of the things I like best with "the hobby" and that is a challange! ;-

We still don't have a good internet connection at our house, else I would upload a video for you to see. I'll let it charge again overnight and try it in the morning. This way I can rule out "batteries fully charged

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 4:57 AM

SyCo_VeNoM

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maybe you damaged the batteries as you were pulling enough juice to melt their connectors. Assuming these are NiMh stick packs.
I had a NiMh battery I damaged awhile back, and it would act like it took a full charge, and read it was full, but it would die pretty much instantaneously when any load was connected.

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 5:15 AM

JohnP2

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Actually, the more I think about it, I'm begin to decipher that the engine might be hydro-locked. I will run through a few cycles of batteries to de-flood it and start over. Thanks

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 5:43 AM

supertib

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I hate stick packs in a starterbox..... forget them and go to a 4S lipo........... or make some jumper cables and run right off your car battery....Stick packs suck IMHO and likely the cause of frying connectors.....a OFNA truggy box is a current hog, those stick packs will be anemic.....4S Lipo wakes it right up...interesting fact..but the older OFNA boxes worked better on lower current sources then the new truggy box.... my twin 650 box pulls harder then my twin 775 on 12 volt, its not till I put my twin 775 on 4S lipo do I really get to see what it can do...but on a 12V gel cel or stick packs my OFNA Chrome blows the doors off my OFNA truggy box......

alignment...make sure you have the engine out of the chassis when you are setting up your box...99.9999999 % of the issues I see are people with misaligned starter boxes..... close isn't good enough here, it has to be perfect

Technique, there is a definite technique to using a box....it will throw you for a loop trying to figure it out on your own, but down the road you will laugh how simple it is..............

Never, ever, ever try to start a engine that is stuck at TDC

alignment, did I mention alignment ? i cant stress this enough...if your seeing black rubber dust your not aligned right

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 1:54 PM

JohnP2

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Thanks, and Happy New Years to all.

Not sure I am understanding the "set up" of the starter box and having the engine out of the truggy. The rubber wheel is perpendicular to the box box and sticks out of the lid about 1/2"

Not sure what you mean "set up" of the box when the engine is out. With the engine locked and loaded on the car, I am doing my best to align the flywheel with the rubber wheel and press down. I was hoping that there would be some pegs or something to be used sp I can "mark the spot" but don't believe there is. What other set up to the box is there (the instructions said little)

Thanks

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 2:08 PM

HerrSavage

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With the engine out of the car, you can see the slot better, and more precisely align the box for your car.

There should be adjustable little black pegs in the front and rear on top of the box so that you can "set it up" perfectly for your car. With everything set up right, your car drops right onto the box- the chassis perfectly held in by the pegs - and can't really budge, with the disc lined up perfectly for the hole in your chassis and thus your flywheel..

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 3:06 PM

f16man

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If your engine is flooded [hydro locked] just remove the glow plug turn car upside down turn the engine over to drain fuel out of the crankcase. While you have the glow plug out test with your glow driver and make sure it glows bright, make sure carb is set[ adjusted ]per os instructions . Anew engine is tight at the top of the stroke [abc engines have a choke bore at the top]you may need to leave glow plug a bit loose and after it starts tighten it up.

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 6:03 PM

big JC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

I hate stick packs in a starterbox..... forget them and go to a 4S lipo........... or make some jumper cables and run right off your car battery....Stick packs suck IMHO and likely the cause of frying connectors.....a OFNA truggy box is a current hog, those stick packs will be anemic.....4S Lipo wakes it right up...interesting fact..but the older OFNA boxes worked better on lower current sources then the new truggy box.... my twin 650 box pulls harder then my twin 775 on 12 volt, its not till I put my twin 775 on 4S lipo do I really get to see what it can do...but on a 12V gel cel or stick packs my OFNA Chrome blows the doors off my OFNA truggy box......

alignment...make sure you have the engine out of the chassis when you are setting up your box...99.9999999 % of the issues I see are people with misaligned starter boxes..... close isn't good enough here, it has to be perfect

Technique, there is a definite technique to using a box....it will throw you for a loop trying to figure it out on your own, but down the road you will laugh how simple it is..............

Never, ever, ever try to start a engine that is stuck at TDC

alignment, did I mention alignment ? i cant stress this enough...if your seeing black rubber dust your not aligned right

This^^ 100%
Got some money invested now... may as well spend another $50-$60 and get 2-2s lipos or a 4s lipo for the box. Making some leads for your car battery is a good idea in the meantime. As mentioned take the engine out and align the rubber wheel on the box perfectly with the slot in your chassis where the flywheel on your engine would be (setting it up with the pegs on your starter box of course). Once you get this figured out and nailed down your gonna love that ofna box!

Value hobby & hobbypartz are good sites for cheap lipos. This lipo http://www.valuehobby.com/power-systems/lipo-batteries/4s-lipo/gforce-25c-6000mah-4s-car-lipo.html may be good one for you if you don't want to spend a lot. Good site, usually get your order in 3 days.

< Message edited by big JC -- 1/1/2013 6:56 PM >

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RE: Can't turn flywheel with Starter Box: SOLVED! - 1/1/2013 6:45 PM

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Absolutely make sure the engine isn't hydrolocked. To help start a new motor, back the glow plug out halfway. Once the engine fires and idles about 30 seconds, remove the glow driver. If the engine dies, just snug up the plug and restart. The heat created and having just run will show you're in the ball park.

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