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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 1/9/2013 3:40 PM   
kochj


 

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Status: offline 		The only bummer of it is that 60size retracts from sierra cost the same or just a little less than there 1/5th size or 50cc size retracts...
If I have the money, I will go for the sierra's in my corsair...

I think the poster, was mainly refering to ELECTRIC retracts, but everyone has to make considerations...

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 1/12/2013 4:11 PM   
Tony Iannucelli


 

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Status: offline 		I've had great luck with Hobby King retracts in four different aircraft. H9 Spitfire, TF AT-6, GP Dirty Birdy, and Century A109 helicopter. No failures, a lot of flights. I just bought and installed the HK rotators in my new TF Corsair 60 ARF. These rotators have 5mm struts and axles included, necessary hardware, and cost $29+ $6 shipping. The stock retracts take 5 mm struts (I use the ones from the Top Flite 60 Mustang, as they plug right in), and cost $15 for a PAIR. I made a short "flip" video, about 18 seconds, if you'd like to see the rotators installed and working. Send me a PM with your email and I'll send you the video. It's about 13 meg, takes about 90 seconds to load on your email program if you have a cable connection. I don't have a youtube account, but if any of you wish to post it on youtube, that's fine with me. Oh yeah, the standard 90 degree retracts are rated for about 10 pounds, and the rotators about 8. Trust me, they can hold more. The rotators have a metal trunion and a double mounting plate, and 5mm is thicker than 3/16th, which is what is provided on the others out there. And it's STRONG wire. Tony

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 1/26/2013 3:40 AM   
raptureboy


 

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Status: online 		Well I just bought a set of these and we will see if they are all they claim to be. I have a TF P-40 arf and these should  fit in without modification. Cost was $112 with shipping so we will see. I will follow up with a report when they come in.
http://www.sonicelectric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=LD-MERS-AM100&Category_Code=NEW&Product_Count=0


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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 1/31/2013 10:56 PM   
raptureboy


 

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Status: online 		Well the new retracts came in today, I will have to say that they seem very well made and operate without issue. I don't think they will work for the corsair and hellcats without some major changes to your setup because the motor is mounted in the front, but because I am using them in a P-40 which has the retract covers it should not be a problem. I will post some pics and video in a day or so.


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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 1/31/2013 11:24 PM   
mike1974


 

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Status: offline 		Hey RB,

I forgot all about those retracts!  I actually placed an order for them and realized, as you did, that they will not work in the Corsair without major modification.  I always wondered how well they would really work.  I am looking forward to pictures and your opinion of them.

Mike

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 12:51 PM   
mike1974


 

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Status: offline 		Hi guys,

I have my Sierra gear mounted and tested.  They work really well and I am very happy with them!  When I bough them I did not realize that the tork links were pressed on by Sierra.  I thought I could just buy them later and add them on.  Nope.  LOL.  I sent the gear back to have the tork links added, so hopefully they will be back next week.  I will post some pictures and try to do a good video once I get the gear back.

I also did something different with the mounting of the gear actuater.  I mounted the servo and gear actuater in the wing.  I just could not think of a good way to do it in the fuselage.  The mechanics of it worked out great.  hopefully I will not need to do any maintenance on this portion of the system as it will be sheeted in the wing.  I cannot see why I would need to change anything once it is set.  So I will have a single air line running to the fuselage connecting to the air tank with a single quick disconnect.  I am also going to see if I can find a way to mount the fill valve and the pressure gauge in the wing on the part that goes up into the fuse.  We will see how this all works out and I will post pics for anyone interested in trying something a little "out of the box"

I have built four other planes, but this one is definitely challenging!  The biggest pain so far has been the sheeting in the bent (gull?) part of the wing and also the custom mounting of the aileron servos.  More so making the access hatches for the aileron servos.  So far though, this has been an enjoyable build and is definitely a labor of love.  I have now been working on this for a year.  I have two kids, a wife, a four unit building and a full time job, so finding time to work on this plane has been a big challenge.

Mike

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 2:55 PM   
Edwin


 

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Status: online 		Mike,
I did as you are suggesting years ago when I built mine. The air fill valve worked good there but was a little bit of a pain to access. I was using robart 615 retracts at the time, huge mistake. I like all other robart retracts, just hate those 615. I eventually settled on a dual tank setup in the wing center section. The sheeting was cut out and the tanks were mounted side by side. Worked fine for the 8 flights the plane lasted. There was only one flight the retracts didnt give me problems. The short story is I missed some cowl mounting damage doing repairs. The cowl broke off in flight, hit the back of the prop and busted off one blade. I shut down the engine and deployed the gear, a strut just dropped to the ground (great, bad to worse). I retracted to setup to belly in, but got too slow and did the corsair doe-see-doe at about 40' altitude. It stalled, rolled over and hit the ground hard. Other than that, its a great flying plane, loved it. Keep your elevator travel on the low side, it will snap at the top of a loop if you have too much. Land with some throttle, not good to glide in. Mine was in the 9 3/4 lb range and flew great at that weight. I've flown a couple TF for other people that were in the 11 to 12 lbs range and they did alright, you just have to stay on top of it and not yank and bank it too much, a high speed stall is still a possibility.

I recently got the arf when it was on sale so I'll be getting some sierra's too. I would suggest setting the rudder up for all the travel you can get. I had about a little more than an inch which worked alright but it would have been nice to have a bit more.
Edwin

Forgot to mention, this time I'm mounting the tank in the fuse. I've used the air couplers in many planes and didnt have any trouble with them.

< Message edited by Edwin -- 2/15/2013 3:19 PM >

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 3:13 PM   
mike1974


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Edwin,

Thanks for all the info.!  Sorry to hear about your plane.  I think I will cry (seriously) if I crash after spending all that time building her.  lol. 

I did a lot of research and decided the extra money for the Sierras was worth it if they perform like they should.  These things really do seem practically indestructable and they look awesome!  I cannot wait to get them back with the tork links installed! 

I am going to be using the Eagle Tree Gaurdian in this plane (and some others), so hopefully that will work out well and hopefully save any crashes within reason.

Mike

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 3:28 PM   
Tony Iannucelli


 

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Status: offline 		I really think electrics are the way to go on all the 60 size warbirds. They help keep the planes light, and light flies better if balanced properly. As you guys know, warbirds should be balanced a bit nose down. They won't snap easily that way, unless you are really flying way too slowly. Gentle on the controls is the way to go. I've had great luck with Hobby King retracts in four different aircraft. H9 Spitfire, TF AT-6, GP Dirty Birdy, and Century A109 helicopter. No failures, a lot of flights. They are as reliable as any air system I have ever used. I currently have a P-47 with Robarts and they work OK. They were no fun to install and I hate the pumping up, and connecting/disconnecting lines. Even adjusted they are not as scale looking and operating as the electrics. I just bought and installed the HK rotators in my new TF Corsair 60 ARF. These rotators have 5mm struts and axles included, necessary hardware, and cost $29+ $6 shipping. The stock retracts take 5mm struts (I use the ones from the Top Flite 60 Mustang, as they plug right in), and cost $15 for a PAIR.The standard 90 degree retracts are rated for about 10 pounds, and the rotators about 8. Trust me, they can hold more. The rotators have a metal trunion and a double mounting plate, and 5mm is thicker than 3/16th, which is what is provided on the others out there. And it's STRONG wire. Here's some pictures and a link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xplUdKgenKs

Tony

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 3:35 PM   
Tony Iannucelli


 

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Status: offline 		The pictures loaded, but didn't show up on the last post. Here's another try.

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 3:37 PM   
mike1974


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for the info. Tony!  Have you tested these out?  They look nice.  I fly off of a grass field and I am really curious if these will hold up on a grass field.  Please let us know when you are able to test these out!  You said these were 90 degree; do you know if they make 100 degree which is correct for the Corsair?  Thanks!

Mike

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 3:56 PM   
Edwin


 

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Status: online 		You're preaching to the choir here. Unfortunately we're only talking about the corsair retracts, (rotators). 90deg rake is ok, but 100deg is better and solves a lot of ground handling problems. The axles need to be even with the wing leading edge. Wingspan retracts has the right idea, just poor execution (bad quality). CJM may have improved, but they have a history to over come. Lado has hinted at 100deg, but to date, no official news. And again, RC Lander has the right idea, but poor execution (motor would stick out the front of the wing leading edge, just plain dumb). 90deg rotators can work, but you really have to be on top of your game and balance a little aft. I have the H9 P-40 and F6F with stock retracts, both rotators at 90deg. They do ok as long as I land with a light touch and I have an aft cg on both. Both of those planes are less than 8lbs due to some mods. In my opinion, those retracts wont hold up very long in a plane over 9lbs. They're pretty flimsy and you have to remove any toe in or out you might have, make them straight. Otherwise the wire struts look like a chicken hopping down the runway.

The only current reliable game in town is Sierra's. I've never owned a set, but I've seen them, and Mike is right. I think those retracts are a work of art. Just my opinion. Until someone comes out with some robust electric corsair retracts, I'm going with sierra.
Edwin

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 4:14 PM   
mike1974


 

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Status: offline 		I actually wanted electric retracts for my Corasair, but try and find a pair of 100 degree rotators that have consistently good reviews and are flown off of a grass runway.  They just are not out there yet.  I  think electric retracts will be the furture and manufacturers are trying, but I just have not seen evidence of a reliable, electric, .60 size, 100 degree rotator for the .60 size Corsair.

I think that there are a lot of electric retracts that work great in a lot of planes, but in my searching, 100 degree, .60 size, robust, proven rotators are just not available yet.  Just my .02.

Tony,

That helicopter is sweet!!!!

Mike



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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 4:21 PM   
Tony Iannucelli


 

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Status: offline 		Hi guys. It takes me a while to get a plane ready so it will take some time to determine how easy or difficult using the HK retracts will turn out in the Corsair. I put the other examples in because essentially the gear in the Corsair are the identical units in the other planes. My AT-6 is over 10 pounds, over 100 flights, and the gear works perfectly. I have tweaked the wires once in a while, with no effect on the retract units. 5mm wire, kit struts, plug right in. Spitfire, almost 10 pounds, ditto. Only nose-overs on the Spit are on taxiing back to the pits after landing on our grass field. Mostly my fault. Have to hold full "up", sometimes tricky. 100 degree vs 90 degree shouldn't be an issue on the Corsair. The stock Corsair gear do not appear to put the axles at the leading edge which is of course preferable. Another Corsair I had never caused issues and it had smaller wheels. The rotators are close. I have absolutely no doubt the gear units and struts will hold up unless I completely botch a landing. I'm counting on the flaps to do their job. If it proves to be a problem, a one or two degree shim should fix it. My bigger issue is engineering some strut covers that look good and don't mess up the fold. Been thinking about it. By the way, the 5mm struts are heavier and stronger than the 3/16" wire that other retracts use. Plug right in too. For the price, especially since I know how well they work, you can't beat them in my view. Happy flying guys.

By the way, we need a "Corsair Brotherhood" string. Count me in. -Tony

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 4:34 PM   
mike1974


 

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Status: offline 		That is all great info. Tony!  Maybe these inexpensive retracts will prove to be diamonds in the rough.  I am really curious as to how these work in the Corsair!

Mike

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/15/2013 5:43 PM   
Edwin


 

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Status: online 		I can wait. Its not like I dont have anything else to work on. Spring will be here soon, gotta cycle all my batteries and see if I need any new ones.
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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/16/2013 1:26 AM   
da Rock



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quote:

The stock Corsair gear do not appear to put the axles at the leading edge which is of course preferable.


The full scale Corsair gear really does put the axles at the leading edge, even if some model kits don't.

One thing that hurts model gear is where the trunion axis is located. All the makes I've seen have the axis of rotation aft in the mechanism. They swing down from nowhere near the LE. No way that 90degree gear can put the wheel axle close to 90degree below the wing LE when the axis if sometimes an inch back from the LE.

Our models don't come close to real life.


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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/16/2013 3:07 AM   
Chad Veich



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ORIGINAL: da Rock

The full scale Corsair gear really does put the axles at the leading edge, even if some model kits don't.

One thing that hurts model gear is where the trunion axis is located. All the makes I've seen have the axis of rotation aft in the mechanism. They swing down from nowhere near the LE. No way that 90degree gear can put the wheel axle close to 90degree below the wing LE when the axis if sometimes an inch back from the LE.

Our models don't come close to real life.


Sad but true when it comes to the Corsair. Believe it or not the gear on the full size Corsair only swing through about 84 degrees if memory serves and yet the wheel is still quite far forward in the extended position. That just illustrates how far forward the gear is in the wing of the real bird. Impossible to duplicate with a retract that has it rotation point in the middle of the unit. This is the main reason my partially framed 1/6 scale Corsair sits languishing in the corner of my shop.


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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/16/2013 4:23 PM   
da Rock



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ORIGINAL: Chad Veich
Believe it or not the gear on the full size Corsair only swing through about 84 degrees if memory serves and yet the wheel is still quite far forward in the extended position. That just illustrates how far forward the gear is in the wing of the real bird. Impossible to duplicate with a retract that has it rotation point in the middle of the unit. This is the main reason my partially framed 1/6 scale Corsair sits languishing in the corner of my shop.



The arc is less than 90 for sure. Of course, looking closely at this picture shows why. Having the axis of rotation so far "up" in the LE, if it rotated farther, it'd stick out the top surface. And so would the tire.


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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 2/28/2013 6:37 PM   
mike1974


 

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Status: offline 		Hi guys,

I just received my Sierra gear back today with the Tork links on.  They look really nice!  I will post some pics soon.

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 3/1/2013 3:15 AM   
tevans55


 

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Status: offline 		Century jet 60 size corsair retract struts extend very close to the leading edge. And I think an electric surprise is just around corner!

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 3/1/2013 10:55 AM   
da Rock



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ORIGINAL: tevans55

Century jet 60 size corsair retract struts extend very close to the leading edge. And I think an electric surprise is just around corner!



They aren't easy to find on the Century Jet website, but they are there. The ~$300 price with struts isn't too bad. Their picture shows just what you mention, the struts are forward in the unit when extended.

The picture on Century Jet website shows the extended strut appears to be angled slightly forward. They would do well to go electric if the 14ounce weight advertised is true.

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 3/1/2013 12:55 PM   
mike1974


 

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Status: offline 		I was trying yesterday and this morning to post pictures, but I get a "500 - Internal Server Error".  Is there a problem with posting pictures on this site?

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 3/1/2013 4:42 PM   
da Rock



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ORIGINAL: mike1974

I was trying yesterday and this morning to post pictures, but I get a ''500 - Internal Server Error''.  Is there a problem with posting pictures on this site?


Yes

Support has been notified... awhile ago...

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RE: .60 size retracts: Are they real or just a myth? - 3/1/2013 6:05 PM   
mike1974


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Rock!  I will try to post them later tonight or tomorrow.  I will also be making a Youtube video that I will post.

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