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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/7/2013 5:54 AM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		1sgt,
Thank you I'll take that as a compliment. But truth this is, those photos I posted of my Tiger where when it was first completed and had not yet battled even once. 6 years laters, 45+ battles, plenty of battle damage, issues with the traverse recoil and this tank was the perfect candidate to be the donor for this project.

Plus truth is over the last 6 years and 8 or 9 more tanks under my belt, and I feel like I have grown as a builder and was truely not happy with the way theTiger looked anymore and rarely took her out of her travel case. I don't think I've battled with her in close to 2 years. So this is really a new lease on life for the ol gal!

I do have a HL Tiger sitting here that I could have used but I was really set on using the Tamiya with their torsion bar suspension. Plus as a side note, a clubmate bought a used Tiger on e-bay that was missing some cosmetic details, so in addition to building me a new tank this gave me the opportunity to recycle some parts and help a buddy complete his Tiger 1 as well. Win-win situation!

Squid



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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/7/2013 6:02 AM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		Alright guys,
Progress was amlittle slower that I had hoped or expected over the weeked, but I guess any progress is still progress.

I got the Tiger completley deconstructed, and was able to save almost everyhting with little to no damage. My plan is to represent this Sturm with no fenders, side skirting or mudflaps, so I took some "extra" time when removng the side skirts. I did my best to preserve the original mounting blocks molded on to the hull sides My patience paid off and i was able to salvage all of them, just a little sanding and maybe re-drilling the mounting holes molded in the center of a few of the blocks as they got filled with super glue when the skirts were originally attached.

I will be cutting the top deck in half and removing the front section, and all of the tool hangers and locator holes with ultimately be filled with styrene and sanded smooth before final paint


Streetsquid

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/7/2013 6:29 AM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		And a little more.....

Next I turned my focus to the resin casemate. After closer examination I realized that much of the molded on detail, was either very soft and not well defined, or was damaged. Many of the peices were not straight or symetrical so I decided it all had to go! I went out to the garage and set up a temporary work station with my dremel, a few coarse files, plenty of sanding blocks, I threw on a long sleeve T-shirt and dust mask, had the shop vac close at hand, and got down to the business of some serious cutting, grinding, and sanding.

I ground off the molded on (solid) bow machine gun, as I plan to replace it with a working one from a Tamiay KT from my spares box. The molded-on front fender attachment brackets were removed as were the small weapons close defense ports on the side of the turret. I'll drill those out and make operable ones hanging on chains. All of the casemates lower edges were ground square flattened and sanded. The weld detail meant to represent the "dovetail construction of the slab sheets of steel had to go. The welds were sitting on top of the steel and just didnt look right. I'll grind in shallow trenches and add new welds made from putty for a more realistic and accurate look. All of the torch cut texturing was soft and almost non-existent, so that was also sanded off to make room for more pronouced detail to be added. The ventilator on top of the casemate was reduced in height for a more scale appearance. I also cleaned up all of the casemate's through openings, and have decided to scratch the hatches as the cast peices are just too rough.

The casemate is coming together, but still needs quite a bit of work. The photos may not reveal it but I've already spent almost 4 hours grinding and sanding. I still have to clean up the inside of the casemate so I'll hit the Auto Parts store on the way home from work tomorrow for a small can of Bondo.

Plus I stopped for the night as I have run into a engineering problem with mating the resin casemate to the Tamiya lower hull and I need some time to think it through. For the casemate to fit I have to remove the front glacis plate, but in Tamiya's design that is a main structural piece right above the gear boxes and there are brackets that attach to both the lower hull and the glacis plate as well as the front deck. More on that later though, I need to go wrack my brain a lil

That last three photos show the casemate after the modifications


Squid (Craig)

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/7/2013 1:30 PM   
CCC2012


 

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Status: offline 		cant wait....any pics?

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/7/2013 5:23 PM   
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Status: offline 		I am surprised how well you managed to remove the parts! Were they glued with super glue?
I am rebuilding my TI and I've encountered lots of problems in removing the parts without damage.

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/7/2013 6:12 PM   
CHIEFSONN



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Status: offline 		? with all that I have seen you build on this form and all the helpful guidance with your skills you have passed onto a lot of us would it have not been a lot easier to scratch build that fighting compartment.

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/7/2013 11:36 PM   
streetsquid



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I'm posting my progress pics as I go, so what I have done thus far has already had pictures posted. Is there something specific you want to see more of or in closer detail, or just continued pics as I move forward.

Sorry just trying to make sure I understood what you were asking for!

Squid

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 5:20 AM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		EugeniRUS,
Yes and no. I know that is a vague answer to your question, but yes some parts were glued with superglue (CA) and other were not. Whenever I build I generally will use 6-8 different types of glue and adhesives, depending on the application, what the material being glued is made from, the location of the part, the chance of it being knock around or broken off during a battle, and the likely hood I may need or want to remove that part in the future.

I do use superglue, but I use it sparingly and in very strategic spots. I also use several types and strengths of water based adhesives, rubber cemment, plastic solvent, MEK, spray adhesives and double stick tape on all of my builds.

My standard method of attaching tools is that they are put on after the tank and tool has been already been painted, I will slide the tool's mounting pin into it's corresponding hole on the hull and then use solvent from the inside to slightly soften and mushroom the head of the locator pin. That has always been enough to hold the tools on securely, but if you ever want to remove them, to rework or refinish the tank, a light sanding of the mushroomed head not only lets the tool come free it leaves the locator pin in tact and ready to use when you reinstall the tool.

Obviously I have different methods for different equiptment and how they were designed to be attached. I do a lot of pre-planning and testing before I commit parts to glue, and put a lot of forethought into what adhesives to use for each application.

For the fenders for example I did use superglue, but i tried not to get it on the raised attachement plugs, instead I focused most of the CA on the flat surface of the hull. Superglue has tremendous tare stength and tensil stength, but when dried it is so hard that it is brittle and easily fractures as it has little shear strength. Go against the direction the glus was applied (across its bias) and pry upward with a thin chisel and it will fracture easily leaving you only to chip and sand away the residue. Look at the attached picture and you can see where the CA was attached between the small locator blocks.

I hope that makes sense, and you find it remotely useful!

Squid

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 5:38 AM   
streetsquid



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Wow! You obviosuly have a lot more confidence in my skills than I do (LOL). Thank you for the kind words, but let's be clear here, Rex Ross I am not, and I don't even play him on TV!

Actually, I had considered scratchbuilding the casemate, but then once I researched some of the more complicated shapes I decided to buy something to work from. If I had access to a mill and lathe that would be a different story, but I don't.

The worst part is, at this rate, all I'm gonna end up left with from this resin kit is gonna be the flat panels that I could have scratched from sheet stock. I gotta stop grinding, or this is gonna be an expensive pile of shavings and dust.

Streetsquid


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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 5:55 AM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		Alright boys and girls,
3 more hours of grinding filing and sanding on the resin (and unfortunately no that is NOT and exageration) and this thing is starting to look like something.

Tonight I focused on replacing all of the molded on parts I had ground away. I started by locating and drawing on the shapes using a fine tip Sharpie, a metal ruler and circle template.

On the front "glacis" plate I marked the location of the bow maching gun, then drilled a series of holes around the perimeter. Using a cut off wheel in my motor tool (Dremel) I joined all of the drilled holes, and the center peice fell out cleanly. I then used a straight edged grinding bur to finish the hole and smooth things out. Of course the entire time I was doing the final grinding I kept the spare Tamiya KT bow machine gun close and test fitted it often. I then thinned the hull from the inside, and I will now have an operable bow machine gun instead of a decorative hunk of resin. Once its glued in place I use will putty to add a weld bead around the outside of it where it joins to the hull.

I also cleaned up and fit the bulbous "mantlet" into the from face of the casemate.

After looking at some of my research material I found there was an additional square recess above and to the left of the vision port. That small recess is on my 1/72 scale Dragon kit, it also appears on the ATTACK 1/72 scale resin kit and both books I have showing pics of real Sturms and 3-view drawings. It's just a recess and not a through hole, so I don't think it is a vision port, but I cant find exactly what it is. Either way no worries, I had enough concrete data saying it should be there so I added it

I believe the pics below should show the progression clearly

Craig

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 6:10 AM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		Onto the sides of the casemate,

I had ground away the cheesy and not very well executed plugs of the close defense ports, they were molded in the closed position and were neither round nore symetrical, so they had to go.

Like the details on the front their location was first marked with a fine tipped Sharpie marker. Then I center punched the hole and drilled a through hole using a 3/8" combination drill bit. I followed this with a 45 degree countersink to create the recessed chamfer. Ultimatley I will make a working plug that can be removed, and will hang on a chain like it's real 1/1 counterpart did. I also thinned it from the inside of the hull (last picture) so that when the plug is removed the hull side will have a scale thickness.

I also drew on the "dovetail" design at the corners of the case mate and used a fine scribing bit in my dremel to create the trench that will later have putty weld detail added to it.

The rest of the night was also spent using 2 different burring bits spinning at the lowest possible speed and being bounce along the surface ina random manner to create the pitted surface that duplicates the texture of cold rolled steel.

Squid

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 6:20 AM   
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Status: offline 		Squid, I have been studying the photos of the real thing and it looks to me like you would be able to leave the glacis plate in place and just sand the front of the Casement front glacis to just meet the lower hull front glacis plate. There seems to be a triangle shaped shot splash where the two meet that would hide the meeting point. Then you could just scribe the detail for where the Front Casement cuts into the lower hull side plates just above the transmission housing/ tracks to give the appearance of that detail. It would also be possable to add strip plastic on the lower hull side to simulate this detail. That would leave you with the integrity/strength of the Tamiay design, but the look of the SturmTiger conversion. I hope this makes sense?

I attached your 2nd photo from the begging o this thread and outlined the area I am describing along with the original untouched photo to compare.

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 7:45 AM   
sollie



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Status: offline 		This is just great man. I'm also(as I said in the start) doing some 1/35- 1/48 scale ,and last night a member on the forum started a sturm build, and as the evening went on several others of us started a group build since it turned out many had the kit on the shelf. I pointed the builders and the rest of the 'watchers' over here to take a look at you're great work.

the place is:
http://modelerssocialclub.proboards.com/index.cgi
and the armor place
http://modelerssocialclub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=armor



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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 2:04 PM   
YHR



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Status: offline 		Man that is a lot of work on that resin. A far cry from the stuff offered from proline.

In the hands of a master though so you are making lemonade out of something that was a lemon. I am watching this thread with interest, and am looking forward to the painting stage.

Thanks for sharing

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 7:54 PM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		MAUS45,
Thank you so very much for taking the time to look at this and try to help me figure out this little engineering dilemma I'm faced with. I agree there is a wedge shaped "shot trap" where the angled front of the casemate meets the horizontal plate in front of the stock T1 glacis. This peice was not included with the resin conversion set, so I was planning on scratching one as it is a pretty prominent piece.
My problem comes in with the thickness of the resin casting and the height of the stock glacis plate. The inside of the casting hits the top of the stock plate and prevents the casting from dropping all the way down to meet the horizontal plate by 3/8" of an inch. I have to clear enough material between the resin and glasis so that the resin part can sit down on the horizontal plate, and then the joint can be addressed or hidden by the shot trap. In fact I'll probably figure out a way incoporate the shot trap to help secure the casemate while the tank is in operation. Planning on using magnets to secure the top to the lower hull so that it stays in place yet can be easily removed for maintanence.

More to come!
Squid

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 8:22 PM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		Sollie,
Thanks I'm glad you like what you've seen so far, but I still a long way to go. Thanks for the kind words and support, I checked out the links you provided and the 1/35th Tamiya Sturm looks to be a nice kit, fun lil group build/competition you have going on as well. That always adds to the fun.

Most of Tamiya's kits go together so well we refer to them as a Shake-n-Bakes, shake the box full of parts up and out pops a fully completed and clean looking model. The Sturm looks to be the same, definitely a lot cleaner and better detail than what I'm dealing with here in 1/16th scale



Squid


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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 8:24 PM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		Dan,
Agreed, this has been and continues to be a lot of work, but I think in the end it will all pay off. The details were soft and had some inaccuracies, but the main component (the casemate) is pretty accurate and will serve as a nice basis for a decent sturm in th end. I also have a Profiline Stug III that I'm building on an Asiatam lower and the casting quality is much higher, but then again it cost 3 times as much.

I really dont mind the work, and I can't complain for $80 bucks.Plus I like the challenge, sort of the "silk purse out of a sow's ear". Like you I'm anxious to get to the painting and weathering, i don't think its any kind of a secret that, that is my favorite part of building, and I have plans for this one!

I'm not sure who the master is you're referring too, but if you see him, please send him my way I could use his help! I feel more like a little kid with a cardboard lemonade stand blowing in the wind and the sign written in crayons (LOL) But thank you for the kind gesture, i take that as a very high compliment coming from you and seeing the quality of the work you do. It's always inspiring!



kindest regards,
Squid

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/8/2013 8:31 PM   
MAUS45



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Status: offline 		Ok, maybe dremel off the back side of the front casement thickness until it will close the 3/8 gap and then use either Plastruct or EverGreen angle shaped strip to create the shot splash? I know K&S has brass and aluminum angle shaped strip as well. Not sure if the front of the casement glacis will be to thin? Just guessing that is part of the issue?

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/11/2013 6:17 AM   
streetsquid



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I like the way you think! In fact you and I have been on the same page from your fisrt posting on this thread. Finally after much debate, lots of griding, test fitting and more grinding, filing and sanding, and more test fitting I finally decided there was simply no way to keep the original front glacis plate.

I had thinned the casemate as much as I could without weakening the structure too much, I also steepened the angle of the bottom edge of the casemate to get a cleaner joint where it it meets the deck. I reduced the thickness of the diamond shape cast casemate attachment plates by nearly half so they now slide over the lower hulls outside walls. With the casemate in place I finally located and cut the rear deck area off of the original Tamiya top plate in preperation of attaching it to the resin casemate.

And finally the entire interior got a generous coating of Bondo to fill in the deep air bubbles, voids and grinder marks, and to smooth the inside of the casemate to a more workable surface. All of the Bondo will need to be sanded and finished, the attachment point engineered and fabricated and the shot splash made, so still plent more to go!

Squid

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/11/2013 6:29 AM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		Alright kids,
As I have mentioned several times earlier in this build most of the cast details were soft, asymetrical, out of round, the wrong shape, or could simply be improved by replacing them with new scratchbuilt items. Well the top hatch with pop up vision port and ventillator were no exception. In fact they were the first two to go when I started the sanding and grinding. You can see in the last 2 pictures the cast on details before they were removed. The white metal hatch was not designed to open but was supposed to simply glue in the locator hole in the middle of the cast mounting plate. Well I needed to open a through hole as i am planning on putting the TBU (Apple) in that hatch.

So after everything was ground and sanded smooth, I marled the location of the hatch, drew a circle and then drilled around the perimeter as described in and earlier posting. Then using laminated plastics I created the new base plate and interior lip that the new hatch will sit against when the TBU is not installed. A new hatch with cleaner crisper definition and better bolt details will be scratched from styrene sheet as well.

The ventillator was fabricated from a slightly different style from my original Tiger, and modified accordingly. Scibed lines and miniature bolts will be added.


Streetsquid

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/11/2013 1:51 PM   
MAUS45



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Status: offline 		Looks great Squid !!!! So now that you have paved the way. I may have to take a crack at one of these.

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/11/2013 2:01 PM   
streetsquid



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Status: offline 		MAUS45,
If you're planning a Sturm, I recommend trying to find and modify a Motorro, of if like me you want the Tamiya suspension kitbashing the Matorro to the the Tamiya, would be an easier path to travel with better detail.

This particular resin kit is a daunting undertaking! Plus, like I mentioned before they only have a limited supply and are not making anymore when those are gone, because the molds have deteriorated so badly. They still have the metal set for about $350, and I'm not sure if the Imperial Modelbau resin set from a few years ago is still even available.

Craig

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In desert warfare, the desert itself is your greatest enemy

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/11/2013 4:55 PM   
MAUS45



Posts: 941
Score: 100
Joined: 7/25/2008
Last Login: 5/24/2013
From: Old Hickory, TN, USA
Status: offline 		I wonder if the upper hull of the Motorro is available as apart? I was even thinking about getting my hands on a Tamiya 1/35 Sturmtiger kit and just scratching the whole casement out of plastic sheet. The tough part would be the mantlet/barrel of the gun/rocket launcher. Still a cool beast!!!

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3 Tamiya''s Tiger I, Tiger II, Panther G, 3 HL Stug III G, 1 HL Panzer III M, 1 Jagdpanzer IV L/70, 1 1/8 Tiger II

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/11/2013 6:08 PM   
nascardad88



Posts: 67
Score: 100
Joined: 2/9/2009
Last Login: 3/25/2013
From: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Street, I agree with what you said to E Double...reconfigure the field, since aquireing my German armor I'm much more happier. However I'm currently working on an ALLIED Heavy that will surly give the AXIS armor some trouble in being loss less.

Happy building !!

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Tamiya Tiger I, Tamiya Pershing, HL PZ III W/Tamiya battle system and DMD/MFU. Under construction; HL JagPanther.

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RE: Sturmmörserwagen 606/4 mit 38 cm RW 61 - 1/11/2013 6:52 PM   
nascardad88



Posts: 67
Score: 100
Joined: 2/9/2009
Last Login: 3/25/2013
From: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Squid, as usual your work is phenomenal and I have became a better builder, painter and better at weathering or "roaching" (as you say) my models and tanks because of your sharing.

Thanks again dude, and I'll be watching the thread for updates !!

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Tamiya Tiger I, Tamiya Pershing, HL PZ III W/Tamiya battle system and DMD/MFU. Under construction; HL JagPanther.

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