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ethanol - 1/4/2013 11:56 PM   
warbird addict


 

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 12:34 AM   
TLH101



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Status: offline 		Ethanol is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to gasoline. Just do some searches on the internet about Ehanol, and you will find some very interesting reading. Or, just ask any mechanic.

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 1:25 AM   
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Status: online 		We have station in town that sells 100% ethanol free gas that I've always bought my gas for my planes from  I think it's time I start buying all my gas from now on from them. 

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 3:03 AM   
TLH101



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Status: offline 		We still have 2 places in town, besides 1 of the marinas, that still sell ethanol free fuel. Sometimes a little more money, but I still buy from them.

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 4:15 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		330,000 miles on my 1993 Cherokee off of gasoline from 7-11 without any tuneups, same injectors, no fuel additives, no magic oils, no magic oil filters, etc. Nothing but the cheapest that money can buy for this 260 cubic inch 190 hp station wagon.
What type of gas does 7-11 sell..?


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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 4:59 AM   
HighPlains


 

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Status: offline 		Yeah, been using E10 for a really long time in multiple cars and pickups with zero problems. Also in small Honda engines and Kawasaki 4 wheeler and all run great.

Triple A would not be my first choice of info. They are there to scare people, that is how they sell their product.

Normal regular gas has about 114,000 BTU
E10 has about 112,000 BTU
E15 has about 109,000 BTU of energy per gallon.
Diesel fuel has about 130,000 BTU of energy.

Why does the BTU matter? Well consider the difference between gas and diesel fueled vehicles. All things being equal, a diesel powered vehicle gets about 30% more mileage per gallon of fuel. But the fuel only accounts for 14% more energy than gasoline. So why does the vehicle get more mpg with diesel? It's the compression ratio of a diesel engine vs the low compression of a gasoline engine. The higher compression an engine operates at, the higher the thermal efficiency.

With 87 octane gas, you are limited to very poor compression ratio to avoid knocking. An engine that is set-up for flex-fuel is a very poor idea, because it could easily operate at 12 to 1 compression, but because it also must run on 87 octane, it is limited to about 9 to 1. So you are really not using E85 to it's best advantange.

Finally about the so called "phasing". Sounds like BS to me. For some reason it doesn't happen with E10 which is close to the same, and strangely it also doesn't happen with E85 which is nearly all ethanol.

A strange thing about E10. If you take 9 gallons of gasoline and add 1 gallon of ethanol, how many gallons of E10 have you made? If you say 10 gallons, you are incorrect. It only makes about 9 1/2 gallons, which is why E10 has over 98% of the energy content of regular gasoline.

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 6:49 AM   
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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 7:28 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		Years ago I heard that E10 would dry up and prematurely ruin all neoprene seals, diaphrams, hoses, etc.
Interesting to see what a slight difference in BTUs means in terms of MPG.



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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 8:54 AM   
HighPlains


 

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Status: offline 		Here is an interesting fact about oil:

In the past 140 years since oil has been used, about 1.1 trillion barrels of oil has been used. (1100 billion barrels)
This sounds like a huge amount of oil, but if you put all that oil into containers that measure 1 mile per side (a cubic mile), it would only fill 42 cubic miles. Much smaller number, just 42 containers of 1 cubic mile each.

Still sounds like a lot?

Well, if you spread all that oil over the entire surface of the Earth, how thick would resulting oil film be?

When you run all the numbers, it come out to be 0.0135 inch, thinner than 4 sheets of copier paper from your printer. Actually a single sheet of copier paper is 0.004" thick, so it is closer to the thickness of 3 sheets.

That not the amount of oil we use each year, it's the amount that has been used the last 140 years.

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 4:16 PM   
topspin


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

Years ago I heard that E10 would dry up and prematurely ruin all neoprene seals, diaphrams, hoses, etc.
Interesting to see what a slight difference in BTUs means in terms of MPG.




The hose and gasket thing is no longer a problem since modern trucks and automobiles are now designed to run on alcohol blended fuel up 85% (E-85) so the components are designed with that in mind. My new F-150 has a Flex Fuel engine that can use E-85 but the owners manual states there is a drop in power and fuel economy by using the stuff. Keep in mind that an engine specifically designed to run on alcohol can produce significantly more power than a gasoline fueled engine of the same displacement, recall the alcohol dragsters from the mid 1960's until the 1990's.

Alky is here to stay so if you want to run it in a gas engine on an RC model you need to raise the compression ratio slightly by milling the head. Also, change the fuel air mixture to get the most power out of it. Doing this will actually soup it up.

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 4:30 PM   
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Status: offline 		I know if I put today's fuel in any of my motorcylces, boat or lawn equipment -it tends to screw them up and almost becomes granulated when I don't crank them up every month-just pulled carb off of my boy's honda 230 for the 2nd time in 6 months it was running lean and would not idle-clean carb and runs good again -I have tried using stabil and seafoam and it still tends to crud up every three-six months if not ran. The residue in the carb was flakey and granular it looked like old pieces of tite bond glue after it has dried

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 5:09 PM   
rexbirk


 

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Status: offline 		I love Ethanol! It really spices up my drinks!

Seriously, I have a ton of two and four stroke lawn equipment and gas aircraft and have had no issues in any of them. I have a Weed Wacker from 1984 that still runs great! Never have rebuilt the carb. In Ohio E10 is all I ever see at the gas station.


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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 6:44 PM   
topspin


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PLANE JIM

I know if I put today's fuel in any of my motorcylces, boat or lawn equipment -it tends to screw them up and almost becomes granulated when I don't crank them up every month-just pulled carb off of my boy's honda 230 for the 2nd time in 6 months it was running lean and would not idle-clean carb and runs good again -I have tried using stabil and seafoam and it still tends to crud up every three-six months if not ran. The residue in the carb was flakey and granular it looked like old pieces of tite bond glue after it has dried



I don't know what your putting in the tank but it sounds like you the problem is not the fuel. If you're going to store equipment for six months you might want to drain the tank. I have never had any fuel related issues in ten years since they have been pumping 10% ethanol in any of my cars, trucks, bikes, or lawn equipment, never once.

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 6:48 PM   
Lightspeed1551


 

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Status: offline 		Stuck with that crud in Illinois too. Tends to dry out Zenoah carb diaphragms.



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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 8:59 PM   
toolmaker7341


 

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Status: offline 		9 gallons plus 1 gallon equals 9 1/2 gallons. Hm mmmm must be some new kind of math?

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 11:31 PM   
HighPlains


 

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Status: offline 		This is a common lab experiment. Mix 1 unit volume of ethanol and 1 unit volume of water and mix well. Then measure the resulting volume, and it is 1.92 units of volume, not 2.0 units. This is due to the difference in size of water and ethanol molecules. Gasoline works this way too with ethanol, so you end up with a smaller volume than the volume of the two parts mixed together.

Oil companies get about 3% more volume of gasoline from a barrel of oil when they can mix in ethanol. And it is a lower octane too, since the ethanol brings it up to the standard 87 octane. Of course if you live in a mountain state, you may be buying 85 octane fuel because of the lower air pressure.

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 11:42 PM   
okdreamin


 

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Status: offline 		Hey guys,  Recently visited the most respected small engine repair shop in town.  He stated that over 90 % of all repairs on mowers, weedeaters, ect are now  fuel related.  He said that alot of the carbs are still clogged up after cleaning them and have to be replaced with new carbs.  Advised to always keep your fuel tanks full of gas to prevent condensation to bond with ethanol.  He stated an easy test to see if your gas station actually has pure gas is.   Use a cheap glass rain gauge.    Put exactly one inch of water in it.  put 3 inches of gas in it.  wait 15 minutes.  if the water level rises and fuel becomes cloudy your gas has ethanol in it. 

Hope this helps     later

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RE: ethanol - 1/5/2013 11:59 PM   
JPMacG


 

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Status: offline 		Ethanol in gasoline has to be one of the biggest scams in history. It serves no purpose other than to help the ethanol producers.

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RE: ethanol - 1/6/2013 12:29 AM   
combatpigg



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quote:

ORIGINAL: okdreamin

Hey guys,  Recently visited the most respected small engine repair shop in town.  He stated that over 90 % of all repairs on mowers, weedeaters, ect are now  fuel related.  He said that alot of the carbs are still clogged up after cleaning them and have to be replaced with new carbs.  Advised to always keep your fuel tanks full of gas to prevent condensation to bond with ethanol.  He stated an easy test to see if your gas station actually has pure gas is.   Use a cheap glass rain gauge.    Put exactly one inch of water in it.  put 3 inches of gas in it.  wait 15 minutes.  if the water level rises and fuel becomes cloudy your gas has ethanol in it. 

Hope this helps     later


This problem goes all the way back to Fred Flinstone's day. The solvents of pure gasoline evaporate away and leave a gummy varnish inside the carb.
I don't doubt that 90% of his repairs are fuel related, with modern engine improvements there isn't much left to repair except for lazy owner/operator type issues.


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RE: ethanol - 1/6/2013 12:30 AM   
TLH101



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quote:

ORIGINAL: okdreamin

90 % of all repairs on mowers, weedeaters, ect are now  fuel related.  He said that alot of the carbs are still clogged up after cleaning them and have to be replaced with new carbs.  Advised to always keep your fuel tanks full of gas to prevent condensation to bond with ethanol. 

Hope this helps     later


This is exactly right. I am a small engine mechanic by trade and for the past 2 years, most of my work is fuel related. The ethanol absorbs water, then settles out of the gas. You end up with water/ethanol mix, that turns to a jelly, at the bottom of the float bowl, or tank and low octane fuel on top. The water causes corrosion and the jelly stops up jets. About half the time, I can just flush out the fuel system, and save everything, but the other half is replacement, as the corrosion clogs the passages (especially on the newer EPA lean burning motors), and they cannot be cleaned. The diapram carbs can almost never be saved anymore.
Here are few pics of what I see on a daily basis. The white balls are ethanol "jelly".

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RE: ethanol - 1/6/2013 12:33 AM   
topspin


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg


quote:

ORIGINAL: okdreamin

Hey guys,  Recently visited the most respected small engine repair shop in town.  He stated that over 90 % of all repairs on mowers, weedeaters, ect are now  fuel related.  He said that alot of the carbs are still clogged up after cleaning them and have to be replaced with new carbs.  Advised to always keep your fuel tanks full of gas to prevent condensation to bond with ethanol.  He stated an easy test to see if your gas station actually has pure gas is.   Use a cheap glass rain gauge.    Put exactly one inch of water in it.  put 3 inches of gas in it.  wait 15 minutes.  if the water level rises and fuel becomes cloudy your gas has ethanol in it. 

Hope this helps     later


This problem goes all the way back to Fred Flinstone's day. The solvents of pure gasoline evaporate away and leave a gummy varnish inside the carb.
I don't doubt that 90% of his repairs are fuel related, with modern engine improvements there isn't much left to repair except for lazy owner/operator type issues.



PLUS 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ad infinitum.

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RE: ethanol - 1/6/2013 1:29 AM   
az3d


 

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Status: offline 		The biggest problem with ethanol is we are we taking food and making something else out of it that is abundant (energy in the form of oil) when people need that food. Even the UN told us to stop. What a terrible joke.

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RE: ethanol - 1/6/2013 1:31 AM   
combatpigg



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quote:

ORIGINAL: TLH101


quote:

ORIGINAL: okdreamin

90 % of all repairs on mowers, weedeaters, ect are now  fuel related.  He said that alot of the carbs are still clogged up after cleaning them and have to be replaced with new carbs.  Advised to always keep your fuel tanks full of gas to prevent condensation to bond with ethanol. 

Hope this helps     later


This is exactly right. I am a small engine mechanic by trade and for the past 2 years, most of my work is fuel related. The ethanol absorbs water, then settles out of the gas. You end up with water/ethanol mix, that turns to a jelly, at the bottom of the float bowl, or tank and low octane fuel on top. The water causes corrosion and the jelly stops up jets. About half the time, I can just flush out the fuel system, and save everything, but the other half is replacement, as the corrosion clogs the passages (especially on the newer EPA lean burning motors), and they cannot be cleaned. The diapram carbs can almost never be saved anymore.
Here are few pics of what I see on a daily basis. The white balls are ethanol ''jelly''.


Those photos look just like the sludge inside the float bowls of the 1930 Tillotson carbs back in the 1930s and all other carbs I've looked inside of since then..


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RE: ethanol - 1/6/2013 1:37 AM   
mithoangel


 

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Status: offline 		I think it's time I start buying all my gas from now on from them. 

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RE: ethanol - 1/6/2013 1:46 AM   
combatpigg



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quote:

ORIGINAL: az3d

The biggest problem with ethanol is we are we taking food and making something else out of it that is abundant (energy in the form of oil) when people need that food. Even the UN told us to stop. What a terrible joke.

The UN is crying about all the 85 IQ people who continue to have 4-5 children and who have no hope of getting fed from the sweat of their own parents labor. Why should WE be held accountable for the stupidity of others..?


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