RE: Need Help with JC Rhino    Gallery
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
    Search This Thread  
 
Printable Version


AMT Netherlands Pegasus HP - RTF
Seller:  thunderbolt-RCU
Details:   $3,000.00   |  5/18/2013   |  Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Jets >> RE: Need Help with JC Rhino
Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>  

Tower Hobbies Get Coupon Codes Brands  
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/7/2013 11:48 AM   
Dr Honda



Posts: 1588
Score: 100
Joined: 4/4/2005
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Latrobe, PA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Molar mender

......
My LiIon runs 7.94v after a full charge and there is no problem. I found that if my LiIon drops between 7.4 to 7.5v, then starts are not reliable. So make sure your batts are fully charged.

Roy



When I was running my JC Falcon on the test stand... I noticed the same thing. (I had a 2c 1800mah LiPo) It liked a fresh charged battery to start and run properly. So... when it got mounted... I put a 2c 5000 mah LiPo on it... and it's great.




_____________________________

Tony
Owner of A&L Motorsports (formerly ARO Products) Manufacture of custom alloy parts.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Molar mender)
       Post #: 26

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/7/2013 12:56 PM   
BluFox



Posts: 955
Score: 100
Joined: 1/2/2002
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: North Port, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Bill:


Molar Mender, Dr. Honda, and most other people who responded are all correct. The use of A123 2 cell 6.6 v is approved for the ECU which you have. However, as some have said, it works as well if not better with 7.4v LiIon or LiPO. Actually, Gaspar highly recommends the use of LiPO due to its C rate. The more the mAh you can get, the less time between charges. As I said in my email to you, Lewis Patton used 2 cell A123 batteries for quite some time. He did recharge between flights.

Your mid 400's PW is good. Even in the 500's is acceptable. The fuel pump cut off is pre set ("pump limit reached" error code) at the factory. Pump limit however is not your issue. Lower PW such as Molar Mender's is excellent and speaks well of his installation, short fuel lines etc. NOTE however you can install a turbine in one jet, operate and note parameters then remove and install in another jet where you may get a different set of numbers. NORMAL.

I sent you an email. I suggest we take this path to determine which of the three (Radio set up, ECU battery, fuel pump or solenoid) could be the issue. If you have an extra RX in stock, install and ONLY connect A CLEAN throttle channel. Bind then start. Results the same?

Please keep me advised.

Eric


_____________________________

Managing Director
Jet Central Turbines

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 27

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 1:15 AM   
advent996


 

Posts: 116
Score: 100
Joined: 8/17/2009
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: ANACORTES, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Eric,

We'll keep working it to resolve the issue.  I will be happy to try a Lipo as a test to obtain more data but it's not a battery chemestry that I plan
to fly with.  The battery is buried in the airframe and not feasable for use.  I'll install a new receiver as you are suggesting and try it with a Lipo.  As you stated the use of A123 6.6 is approved for the ECU and is being used by a number of folks without significant issue.  Having to re-charge between flights is not an inconvenience for me. Being able to run A123 was an important factor for me prior to purchasing.  If the problem continues with a Lopo and new receiver, at least this narrows down the possibilities.

Thx...

Bill


Hide Signatures

(in reply to BluFox)
       Post #: 28

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 2:24 AM   
sailing1


 

Posts: 677
Score: 100
Joined: 8/17/2004
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: tulsa, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Why don't you just run a good size 2S2P Lion battery. That is what my Propane start Rhino uses and what they ship with I think. Lots safer chemestry than LiPo and plenty of power if your not running a Kero Start.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 29

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 3:39 AM   
advent996


 

Posts: 116
Score: 100
Joined: 8/17/2009
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: ANACORTES, WA, USA
Status: offline 		It's certainly crossed my mind.  Not quite ready to give up on the A123.   

Hide Signatures

(in reply to sailing1)
       Post #: 30

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 4:43 AM   
ddlstang


 

Posts: 513
Score: 110
Joined: 12/31/2004
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Do they allow the use of 9.9v A123.

_____________________________

Dale

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 31

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 4:51 AM   
advent996


 

Posts: 116
Score: 100
Joined: 8/17/2009
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: ANACORTES, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Nope...

2C 6.6 only with the A123

Bill 

Hide Signatures

(in reply to ddlstang)
       Post #: 32

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 12:00 PM   
Dr Honda



Posts: 1588
Score: 100
Joined: 4/4/2005
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Latrobe, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Why are you so opposed to the LiPo on the ECU?


_____________________________

Tony
Owner of A&L Motorsports (formerly ARO Products) Manufacture of custom alloy parts.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 33

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 12:25 PM   
gunradd



Posts: 952
Score: 120
Joined: 8/28/2008
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: Springhill, FL, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr Honda

Why are you so opposed to the LiPo on the ECU?


Because he wants to charge the battery in the plane. Its hard to get too and charging a lipo while installed is a bad thing. Charging A123s in the plane is no problem.

I had the same problem on my plane but I ended up making room for the lipo since my experience on the big ones are most Hot starts that I have seen are due to low battery voltage. I had to have the higher voltage for a better starting engine so I moved things around in the plane to get the ECU battery in a place I could remove it for charging.

_____________________________

Loving my Kingtech Turbine!

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Dr Honda)
       Post #: 34

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 1:52 PM   
Dr Honda



Posts: 1588
Score: 100
Joined: 4/4/2005
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Latrobe, PA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gunradd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr Honda

Why are you so opposed to the LiPo on the ECU?


Because he wants to charge the battery in the plane. Its hard to get too and charging a lipo while installed is a bad thing. Charging A123s in the plane is no problem.

........



OK... I understand... but newer LiPo's are very stable. As long as you double check your charger settings... and don't try to charge more than 1c... then they won't even get warm. Or... if you really want to bury them... just mount a temp sender on it... and plug it into the charger, and if it gets higher than 120 F... have it shut off. Besides... if you put in a large LiPo... you could fly all day on a single charge, and that will take away the worry of charging at the field. I think I can get 8~9 flights safely on my 5000 mah pack. (and still have some in reserve) As Eric said... Lewis charges after each flight, using an A123. To me... that's just a pain in the butt.

Advent: I love LiFePO4 batteries... but I use them on my radio. The Engines/ECU's like the higher voltage. Anyway... let us know what happens when you run it on a LiPo. And... if you need a loaner Rx... I can send you one to test with. (assuming Spektrum/JR)




_____________________________

Tony
Owner of A&L Motorsports (formerly ARO Products) Manufacture of custom alloy parts.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to gunradd)
       Post #: 35

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 5:53 PM   
TTRotary


 

Posts: 62
Score: 100
Joined: 1/4/2011
Last Login: 4/30/2013
From: Claremont, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Dr. Honda - that is a higher Ah consumption rate than I would have expected. Another new thing I have learned. So, to confirm, we are basically saying that the ECU will consume abolut 400-500MaH per flight?

I agree with Gunradd that I would never keep a Lipo in an airframe. The batteries are definitely safer today, but they are still dangerous and should be treated with caution. A modeler crashed his electric plane this weekend with a 3S 5000 on board. The battery survived but was severely damaged. He punctured the cells with a pocket knife so as not put put it in the trash charged. Just a light stab. The battery immediately cooked off in spectacular fashion when he did this. Once you see this, you understand the energy that is packed in there. I always charge on a non-flammable surface away from everything, and the Lipos are either in the planes, or in their lipo sacks.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Dr Honda)
       Post #: 36

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 6:37 PM   
Dr Honda



Posts: 1588
Score: 100
Joined: 4/4/2005
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Latrobe, PA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TTRotary

Dr. Honda - that is a higher Ah consumption rate than I would have expected. Another new thing I have learned. So, to confirm, we are basically saying that the ECU will consume abolut 400-500MaH per flight?

.................



It depends on the engine, and if it's Kero or Propane start. My AMT or JC Falcon will use about 320 to 400 mah on a 6 minute flight. My Little Wren 44 only uses around 250 to 300 mah per flight. The Kero start engines use more power.




_____________________________

Tony
Owner of A&L Motorsports (formerly ARO Products) Manufacture of custom alloy parts.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to TTRotary)
       Post #: 37

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/8/2013 8:39 PM   
BluFox



Posts: 955
Score: 100
Joined: 1/2/2002
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: North Port, FL, USA
Status: offline 		ddlstang:

Yes, we recommend the use of 9.9 A-123 or LiFe batteries BUT only with the V-10 ECU. ADVENT996 has the previous version which does not allow for use with 9.9 A123 batteries.

Regards,
Eric


_____________________________

Managing Director
Jet Central Turbines

Hide Signatures

(in reply to ddlstang)
       Post #: 38

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 1:10 AM   
RCISFUN



Posts: 4462
Score: 105
Joined: 4/11/2002
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: Erie, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Bill
I have a fuel pressure gauge that I use to verify the health of my pumps, I hooked it up to my Rhino Pump tonight and I recorded a hair under 50 PSI when in the test pump mode with the pump being driven full on,

Note: It takes about 20 seconds or so for the ECU to ramp the pump up to full when in the test mode.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

Rich
Jet Central Rabbit, Cheetah, Super Eagle & Rhino owner

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 39

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 3:21 AM   
RCISFUN



Posts: 4462
Score: 105
Joined: 4/11/2002
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: Erie, PA, USA
Status: offline 		p.s. forgot to mention I was using a 4000 mA 2S liPo for the ECU power.

_____________________________

Rich
Jet Central Rabbit, Cheetah, Super Eagle & Rhino owner

Hide Signatures

(in reply to RCISFUN)
       Post #: 40

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 3:37 AM   
advent996


 

Posts: 116
Score: 100
Joined: 8/17/2009
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: ANACORTES, WA, USA
Status: offline 		To All,

I appreciate all of the comments and input while working to resolve this problem.

So let's see:

Gunradd - You are absolutely correct.  The battery is buried forward in a YA F15.  Room is at a premium and I really can't  move it
from it's current location.  I'm not interested in Lipo's and certainly not while having to leave in fuse...

Dr Honda - For some it may be a pain in the butt to charge after each flight but I don't see it that way.  Just a matter of personal choice.  I rarely fuel, fly, fuel, fly, fuel, fly.  I don't see this bird as a daily flyer.  In 8 hours at the field  I'll probably fly it once or twice mixed in with one of my others.  Also, thx for the offer on the RX.  I do fly spektrum and I have a spare RX.

Rcisfun - Good idea with the fuel pressure gauge.  Looks like it would be well worth putting one together.  Thx for the info on the pump pressure.

Eric - Maybe I just need to buy a new Rhino with V-10 ECU !!!

I really prefer to have consistancy with my equipment.  I run A123 on my other jets and like the performance of it's chemestry.  My other turbines are all Jetcat.  I would have preferred for this F15 to have a Jetcat as well but it has a Jet Central.  I don't say that because I'm not happy with Jet Central.  I only say it because when I go out to dinner I like a rib eye steak, medium rare, with a baked potato, mixed vegetables, and a green salad with ceasar dressing !!!!!  In other words when I find something that works for me I tend to stick with it !!!!!!!  L.O.L.
 
I had someone PM me and state that they have over 50 hours on their Rhino and it's run on A123 the whole time.   It sounds to me like it should work...
                                                
I'll be giving a Lipo a shot with a new receiver.  We'll see what happens.  I'm sure the problem will get resolved and I anticipate that the turbine will run like a top !!!

Thx again for everyones suggestions...  I'll keep you posted !!!  In the mean time keep your fingers crossed for some decent weather this weekend up in the Pacific Northwest.  I probably won't be at the field in the pouring down rain...

Bill 



 

Hide Signatures

(in reply to RCISFUN)
       Post #: 41

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 5:38 AM   
smitty1001



Posts: 1855
Score: 103
Joined: 6/30/2002
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		You could also just purchase the v1o ecu only from Eric. Everything you already have would plug right in - you only need the box and data terminal. You would then have the a123 3c capability. Another option would be the 2C li-mag battery - ran these for many many hours with the battery buried in the nose of a bobcat.

_____________________________

Jet Central Tejas

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 42

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 5:58 AM   
advent996


 

Posts: 116
Score: 100
Joined: 8/17/2009
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: ANACORTES, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe,

Runninng it with the Lipo should tell a lot.  At least if it doesn't make full RPM with the Lipo that takes the battery out of the equation.  If it does make full RPM, (not that this would be a bad thing) I'll have to determine what I want to bury in the nose !!!  I  keep going back to what Eric has said, "It should work"  I know, I know I'll have to charge it up before each flight !!!!! LOL

Bill 

Hide Signatures

(in reply to smitty1001)
       Post #: 43

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 6:02 AM   
smitty1001



Posts: 1855
Score: 103
Joined: 6/30/2002
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I hear ya, good luck Bill. Keep us posted.

_____________________________

Jet Central Tejas

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 44

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 11:35 AM   
RCISFUN



Posts: 4462
Score: 105
Joined: 4/11/2002
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: Erie, PA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: advent996


I only say it because when I go out to dinner I like a rib eye steak, medium rare, with a baked potato, mixed vegetables, and a green salad with Cesar dressing !!!!!  In other words when I find something that works for me I tend to stick with it !!!!!!!  L.O.L.
 
 



I like Filet Mignon, that's why I run Jet Central and Futaba radios

Before you do anything drastic I would try to eliminate the fuel system as others have mentioned, such as using your taxi tank directly to your fuel pump.

I am a bit curious why it was suggested to try a different receiver?

I am not a Spectrum user, I know my Futaba works every time once it is trained.

_____________________________

Rich
Jet Central Rabbit, Cheetah, Super Eagle & Rhino owner

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 45

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 1:25 PM   
Dr Honda



Posts: 1588
Score: 100
Joined: 4/4/2005
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Latrobe, PA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCISFUN



I like Filet Mignon, that's why I run Jet Central and Futaba radios





So... I guess I only like SPAM... since I fly Spektrum, and have other engines too. I knew you hated me!!! (j/k)


_____________________________

Tony
Owner of A&L Motorsports (formerly ARO Products) Manufacture of custom alloy parts.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to RCISFUN)
       Post #: 46

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 4:26 PM   
BluFox



Posts: 955
Score: 100
Joined: 1/2/2002
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: North Port, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Advent996. . .Bill:


We want to send you a replacement ECU (same as you have) or an upgrade V10 for an additional cost of $200 plus shipping. Please note the following:

1. In our opinion there is no fuel system problem because PW is within range and you have not recorded "fuel pump limit reached" which would be indicative of a fuel restriction or failing pump.

2. We want to try a replacement ECU to insure the present unit has not let the previous battery V take a set (laymans term) and overwriting of memory with A-123 6.6 V is not possible.

3. We are willing to upgrade for the new V10 ECU if you prefer. Then you can use 9.9v A-123. If you wish to do this, we will need the time readings. Total time, last cycl. and total cycles for flashing in the new V10 ECU or your present ECU replacement (n/c).

After testing with LiPo or LiMag or LiIon battery, please advise.

Reason for suggesting a substitute Rx with a clean throttle channel is to insure there are absolutely no mixes, end point limits or anything else which could prevent the pulses and percentages on the throttle channel from reaching adjusted maximum.

We are here to help. . .

Eric


_____________________________

Managing Director
Jet Central Turbines

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 47

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 5:30 PM   
advent996


 

Posts: 116
Score: 100
Joined: 8/17/2009
Last Login: 5/23/2013
From: ANACORTES, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Eric,

I absolutely know you are here to help.  I certainly did not expect to hear from you over the weekend when my issue came up, but I did !!!  I have a Lipo soldered up and charged up and still plan to give it a run up this weekend.  I will be using a new RX as well so we will have a clean slate.  I'll keep you updated on the results and we'll go from there.  I am confident we will resolve the issue in a manner that will be acceptable to me.  Also, as you know, I am in your LTW system as well. 

Thx again Eric and everyone for your comments and input in helping me to get my Rhino to roar !!!!

Bill

Hide Signatures

(in reply to BluFox)
       Post #: 48

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 6:38 PM   
Planecrazy232



Posts: 141
Score: 100
Joined: 2/11/2002
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Cape Coral, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Bill,

I suggest you do your next test with just the battery change or just the rx change- not both at the same time. You want to find out which one is the fix.

Anthony Greco, Jr.
Team Horizon

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 49

RE: Need Help with JC Rhino - 1/9/2013 8:19 PM   
Gaspar



Posts: 227
Score: 105
Joined: 6/10/2002
Last Login: 5/22/2013
From: Arenys de Munt- BARCELONA, SPAIN
Status: offline 		Hi,

The rhino should arrive to full power at 6,6V, given that the pump is healthy and there aren't restrictions on the fuel line.

What you are experiencing is that the ecu is "used" to work with a higher battery voltage, and need a bit of running time to refresh the internal running tables for to adapt to new battery voltage.

First, disconnect the ecu battery to prevent a unwanted startup, go to second screen on the terminal, and check if the percentage displayed at right side of the "Pulse" reading is 100% when throttle is set to full power. If it does, then discard all transmitter/receiver possibilities, all is OK on throttle side. If you never see the 100%, then you have incorrectly learned the radio, repeat the procedure again, remember to push the "+" button to store the settings on the ecu. Changing the RX will do nothing.

If the radio is fine (100% displayed) then start the engine, set full power and wait. You will see that the rpm and pump power increase gradually while the ecu self adjust. If during this process, the message "pump limit reached" is displayed, then this mean that the pump can't deliver enough juice at 6,6V, but this could be caused by a tired pump, a fuel restriction, or a too low pump limit, in either case annotate the PW value when this happen and check with manufacturer about what can be done. But, given that you have checked that your radio is commanding the 100%, until you see the message "Pump Limit Reached" is displayed, the ecu will be in calibration process, just wait.

Gaspar

_____________________________

Owner of: www.xicoy.com Partner of:www.jets-munt.com

Hide Signatures

(in reply to advent996)
       Post #: 50

Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>  
All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Jets >> RE: Need Help with JC Rhino
Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>  




Jump to:


 
Google 



Search | Marketplace | Event Calendar | Local Clubs | Magazine | Product Ratings | New Products | Discussion Forums

Photo Gallery | Instructor Search | Field|Track|Marina Search

Advertisers | Hobby Vendor Resources | Rate Manufacturers | Sign In/Sign Up

SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

RC Universe is a service of Internet Brands, Inc. Copyright © 2001-2013.

Charities we support that also need your help
Yorkie Rescue | Humane Society | ASPCA | Crohn's-Colitis America


1.017RCU1