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It was only a matter of time..... - 1/9/2013 10:36 PM

1QwkSport2.5r

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I don't know if they make all of their engines in China now or not.... But now they're no better than the normal run of the mill RTR engines IMHO...

Manufactured for half the price and charge twice as much...

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/9/2013 11:01 PM

mattster1971

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I don't know if they make all of their engines in China now or not.... But now they're no better than the normal run of the mill RTR engines IMHO...

Manufactured for half the price and charge twice as much...

That is a shame. Until trade regulations are leveled against China to even the playing field no type of manufacturing is safe in the US. What names still manufacture in the US?

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/9/2013 11:07 PM

1QwkSport2.5r

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mattster1971

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I don't know if they make all of their engines in China now or not.... But now they're no better than the normal run of the mill RTR engines IMHO...

Manufactured for half the price and charge twice as much...

That is a shame. Until trade regulations are leveled against China to even the playing field no type of manufacturing is safe in the US. What names still manufacture in the US?

Well, OS *used* to be made in Japan.

The main USA manufacturers that I know of make aircraft engines only. Fox, K&B, and Jett. Some stuff from K&B is imported but I'm not sure what nowadays.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/10/2013 12:56 AM

proptop

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AFAIK the only K&B made outside the U.S. was the little, squarish looking .18 that was also known as a Toki IIRC.

I wonder if the O.S. .46AX II has a real ABC set-up? We will soon find out if the "new" .55 AX does...someone will be the proud owner..(er, I mean Guinea Pig...er...Beta Tester ) and report I'm sure....but it won't be me...

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/10/2013 3:04 AM

1QwkSport2.5r

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quote:

ORIGINAL: proptop

AFAIK the only K&B made outside the U.S. was the little, squarish looking .18 that was also known as a Toki IIRC.

I wonder if the O.S. .46AX II has a real ABC set-up? We will soon find out if the ''new'' .55 AX does...someone will be the proud owner..(er, I mean Guinea Pig...er...Beta Tester ) and report I'm sure....but it won't be me...

It's the same crappy ABL as the FX series. Only thing different in the AX II is the carb and muffler AFAIK.

The Toki was made in Japan I think. Not the kind of quality one would expect from a company like Enya though. I would be interested in an Enya car engine if they made one bigger than a .21. My monster trucks weigh 13lbs, a .21 is nowhere near enough grunt to push these pigs around.

After my Jett comes, I only want to buy Enyas and a Como .51 ABC if I can find one. Maybe one more Jett.

Someday...

p.s. The ST S90K I got from you is a serious runner now that I have a few gallons through it. Crazy compression.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/10/2013 10:03 AM

proptop

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Thought it was ABN...and I think it's only the .46 AX II and now the .55 AX II that are being made in China?

Yeah, the Toki is / was made in Japan...and looks like some of the other car engines I've seen being sold as HPI (I think ) and a few others that I can't recall right off hand. (wasn't there a Fantom engine several years back that looked like a Toki? a .27 maybe? )

You will love that Jett

...there are quite a few of them around here, in the various local clubs...never seen or heard of any of them having any serious problems...just a few "user induced" tuning issues...

Glad you are getting some use out of that Super Tigre...I told my ole flyin buddy that I got it from that you were someone who could tune it properly...

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/10/2013 11:16 AM

1QwkSport2.5r

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quote:

ORIGINAL: proptop

Thought it was ABN...and I think it's only the .46 AX II and now the .55 AX II that are being made in China?

Yeah, the Toki is / was made in Japan...and looks like some of the other car engines I've seen being sold as HPI (I think ) and a few others that I can't recall right off hand. (wasn't there a Fantom engine several years back that looked like a Toki? a .27 maybe? )

You will love that Jett ...there are quite a few of them around here, in the various local clubs...never seen or heard of any of them having any serious problems...just a few ''user induced'' tuning issues...

Glad you are getting some use out of that Super Tigre...I told my ole flyin buddy that I got it from that you were someone who could tune it properly...

I have an HPI .15FE that I got from a buddy that has never ran; the rear bearing literally fell apart. It wouldn't turn over brand new... Me and a buddy are/were going to try to put a prop on it and see if it will run well enough to fly a plane. With new bearings of course. I think this is a Toki; it's stamped 'Made in Japan'.

As for the Jett; it will be a BSE .35. Sexy looking engine.

The S90K was the most stubborn of the 3 ST engines I have now. If I hand start it, I backflip start it. It will whack your hand like a 4-Stroke will if you're not careful. I rarely use the starter on it as it doesn't need it usually. 1 or 2 backflips is all it takes. I think this engine will fly my big 'ol Goldberg Mig-27 foamie pretty well.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/10/2013 1:55 PM

HerrSavage

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I don't care where an engine is made, if it's power, price, quality etc are good.

Alpha engines are awesome.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/10/2013 2:15 PM

supertib

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I dont care where an engine is made.... what I care about is the quality of materials being used............If all I ran was stock engines this probably wouldn't matter much, but since all I run is modifieds the material quality is the #1 factor that I am concerned with........As a general rule the expensive engines are overbuilt, capable of handling a substantial amount more load and RPM then they come with stock...the cheaper engines typically are built just good enough to handle the performance they come with stock...And once We add more power and RPM to the cheaper engines we generally see them wear down extremely fast, only showing a fraction of the lifespan we see from the more expensive engines.........One Italian $200.00 engine has no issue giving 20 gallons of service life from the crank, while the "Cheaper" $200.00 engine has its crankpin burnt down in under 3 gallons........Once we starting increasing the loads and RPM the gap between the engines gets quite massive.....whats amazing is sometimes the higher grade engine sells for the same price as the lower grade engine...One made in Italy, the other made in Taiwan.......For some reason the Taiwanese do not have the steel quality of the Italians....

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/10/2013 3:10 PM

HerrSavage

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IMO, a stock Alpha will last as long as a stock Italian, all other factors being equal. In some cases, longer.

There are people about who swear at Novarossis, not by them. Not just clueless newbs either..

I'm currently looking for someone to trade me an Alpha A852 straight up for my RB...

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/10/2013 3:56 PM

supertib

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HerrSavage

IMO, a stock Alpha will last as long as a stock Italian, all other factors being equal. In some cases, longer.

There are people about who swear at Novarossis, not by them. Not just clueless newbs either..

I'm currently looking for someone to trade me an Alpha A852 straight up for my RB...

I guess it depends on what criteria you are judging engine life by....As in what is lasting longer on the Alpha's then the Nova's ? Are the pistons lasting longer ? the bearings,., the cranks ? The real truth is Nova's are generally higher strung and require a little more skill to operate, if someone is cursing at Nova it just means they are not skilled enough with engines to get the Nova working right, or not mechanical enough to figure out why their Nova is not acting right.....Nova makes fantastic engines that are extremely consistent from the factory, every engine is serial numbered and comes with a hand signed inspection tag.....99.9% of the time someone has an issue with a Nova it is because the person is doing something wrong, not the other way around..... Under 100% equal conditions the Taiwanese last nowhere near as long as the Nova's do...If a Nova wears out early it is because some form of mechanical damage has happened, most likely ingesting dirt..........But hey what do I know about nitro engines.....

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/10/2013 4:28 PM

HerrSavage

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Nobody's doubting what you know about engines. But I've seen a good many people with WAY - WAY more experience and mechanical knowhow and insight than me, who just don't like Novas.. Switching from Novarossi to OS doesn't seem to be all that uncommon.. They might be as great as you say under some set of circumstances, but - understandably - not everyone wants to deal with those circumstances. Some people want the easier tuning - and still undeniably good power and running - of an OS...

As for me, I would never buy a Bonito for ex. just because of price. I buy engines at a price level at which I expect them to last seven or eight gallons without so much as a bearing change, pinch, or anything else. Then I'll buy something else.. And I honestly see no reason to expect that a Nova in the same price class as an Alpha (a P5 or Plus 4, say..) is gonna' last any longer whatsoever.

Actually, if I were going to buy a higher end engine right now, it would be the new Picco Torque R5T(or whatever it's called..) I couldn't care less about it being Italian - I just like what I hear about them - good power, easy to tune, low hassle, etc.. Given that I don't race that much currently though, and am just a budget-minded nitro head, I would - and will - get an Alpha. The value for money is too good to ignore IMHO.

ps I know I know - I read often about OS's needing rebuilds pretty quickly.. But people sure do seem to like them.. - wherever they're made..

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 12:06 AM

purenitro33

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Take an old Italian engine crank, and an old Taiwan crank and try grinding on them, you will instantly see that what Neal is saying is 100% the truth. As for the pistons, bearings and rods, it's the same scenario.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 1:29 AM

nitroexpress

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One of my favorite engines was (long departed) my Picco .21. Not the best mileage, not that smooth, but it went like spit. I had hoped that it would lead a long life, but the rod went at an early age, I thought that maybe the reason was an inappropriate break in or the tune had been off. I didn't think so, but maybe. Then one of the engine Guru's stated that the engine had a history of rapid rod wear, which made me feel better. So much for Italian engines. But then, what does he know about engines.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 1:52 AM

supertib

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quote:

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One of my favorite engines was (long departed) my Picco .21. Not the best mileage, not that smooth, but it went like spit. I had hoped that it would lead a long life, but the rod went at an early age, I thought that maybe the reason was an inappropriate break in or the tune had been off. I didn't think so, but maybe. Then one of the engine Guru's stated that the engine had a history of rapid rod wear, which made me feel better. So much for Italian engines. But then, what does he know about engines.

Picco's are hard on the rod during breakin.... they have a very hard piston and a very tight pinch in the upper zone of the sleeve... so the the rod takes a hammering during breakin...and because the piston is so hard the breakin takes them longer .......... As a rule with the Picco's we would change the rod the very first day we noticed the engines nuts dropped... That first time the engine feels like it really woke up is when the rod needs to be changed, as by the time the piston breaks in the rod is usually stressed..... Replace that rod and you have one of the longest lasting nitro engines money can buy....Dont replace that rod and it could be game over in only a few gallons..... Today some of us are hand fitting engines, so tight breakins are a thing of the past...I have had Picco's that were 6 gallons into their life and would still jam my starter box....and that's 6 gallons of racing and it would still lock tight at TDC...Picco have a unique taper to them, the upper last stage of the sleeve has a very aggressive taper to it, the piston will slide to the top effortlessly and all of a sudden would lock up tight int he sleeve, requiring far more force to dislodge then it took to put it there int he first place...Anyways it is what it is, with a tight Italian race engine with a hard billet piston the rods will take a beating during breakin..........

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 2:22 AM

1QwkSport2.5r

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You don't need to have an Italian engine to have a high quality engine. This engine is made in Houston, Texas. The case is made from barstock, and the piston is made from a special high strength alloy. The liner is chrome plated aluminum which is a $25 upgrade over the standard ABC. The pinch of this AAC engine is absolutely insane. Yes, its an aircraft engine, but its proof you dont need to buy something from Italy or Japan to have ridiculously high quality. If they made car engines, I'd replace everything in my fleet with them. I'd have to take out a loan to afford all those engines, but they would likely outlast me in life.

'Made in USA' has a beautiful ring to it....

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 2:42 AM

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Got a picco 28 with almost 11 gallons, rebuilt at gallon 4 and has plenty of compression left. My second picco 28 was rebuilt at gallon 3 and it getting ready for another break in. The 3rd picco 28 I own is still on gallon 2 but will soon get rebuilt, probably around the 3rd gallon as well. These motors are built extremely well and you can drive them hard and put them up wet and its like they keep asking for more. My Lrp 30 was a joke compared to the picco in terms of quality, when replacing the front bearing it fell out with temps below 150f. Even with temps above 275f to get the rear bearing out, the front bearing wouldnt grab until it was near 100f. Thats not cool imo. The picco has never done this.

Now why is it getting harder to get picco 28s?

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 3:07 AM

purenitro33

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I did a quick calculation one day and the rough estimate I came up with was about 3,000,000 revolutions per gallon on a .28 sized engine. If you think of it like that, then it shouldn't be hard to agree that after 3-4 gallons 9,000,000 - 12,000,000 it's a good idea to change out both the rod and bearings, and your good to go.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 3:14 AM

nitroexpress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: supertib

Picco's are hard on the rod during breakin.... they have a very hard piston and a very tight pinch in the upper zone of the sleeve... so the the rod takes a hammering during breakin...and because the piston is so hard the breakin takes them longer .......... As a rule with the Picco's we would change the rod the very first day we noticed the engines nuts dropped... That first time the engine feels like it really woke up is when the rod needs to be changed, as by the time the piston breaks in the rod is usually stressed..... Replace that rod and you have one of the longest lasting nitro engines money can buy....Dont replace that rod and it could be game over in only a few gallons..... Today some of us are hand fitting engines, so tight breakins are a thing of the past...I have had Picco's that were 6 gallons into their life and would still jam my starter box....and that's 6 gallons of racing and it would still lock tight at TDC...Picco have a unique taper to them, the upper last stage of the sleeve has a very aggressive taper to it, the piston will slide to the top effortlessly and all of a sudden would lock up tight int he sleeve, requiring far more force to dislodge then it took to put it there int he first place...Anyways it is what it is, with a tight Italian race engine with a hard billet piston the rods will take a beating during breakin..........

The original GoTech engines were so hard on rods during break in that they included a spare. Wouldn't it be nice if Picco did the same. But considering the Italian rods usually cost almost 3 times that of an Asian rod, it isn't going to happen.

I'd really like to try a Picco Boost 5TR .21 But $150 for a crank and $64 for a rod. Unreal.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 3:39 AM

purenitro33

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Why would you need a new crank? you should only need a rod and bearings for a rebuild so it shouldn't be too bad.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 6:44 AM

kochj

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I don't know if they make all of their engines in China now or not.... But now they're no better than the normal run of the mill RTR engines IMHO...

Manufactured for half the price and charge twice as much...

What engine ars you showing?
All of the engines in the rc planes and even the new 60cc single is made in japan...
I could see the engine industry like many others havedone.
Build the runof the mill to middle in China, and the high end priced engines in Japan.
With the recent shift from nitro to electrics they have to find a way to make up for the losses to survive.

China has some of the very best factories in the world. It isnt the specs or precision that is lacking....
It is the metal quality that makes thing not last..IMHO.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 9:32 AM

1QwkSport2.5r

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kochj

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r

I don't know if they make all of their engines in China now or not.... But now they're no better than the normal run of the mill RTR engines IMHO...

Manufactured for half the price and charge twice as much...

What engine ars you showing?
All of the engines in the rc planes and even the new 60cc single is made in japan...
I could see the engine industry like many others havedone.
Build the runof the mill to middle in China, and the high end priced engines in Japan.
With the recent shift from nitro to electrics they have to find a way to make up for the losses to survive.

China has some of the very best factories in the world. It isnt the specs or precision that is lacking....
It is the metal quality that makes thing not last..IMHO.

I know for sure the OS 46AX II and 55AX II are made in China, but I am not sure what others are. I doubt OS would only have two engines made in China, I'm sure there are others.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 11:56 AM

Luchnia

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So will OS drop the price to reflect the "new" china made engines? If other manufacturers can sell a competitive engine for 50% less then OS, maybe OS needs to get with the program!

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 1:24 PM

1QwkSport2.5r

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Luchnia

So will OS drop the price to reflect the ''new'' china made engines? If other manufacturers can sell a competitive engine for 50% less then OS, maybe OS needs to get with the program!

I doubt it. I speculate the 55AX II has been made in China for at least a year.

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RE: It was only a matter of time..... - 1/11/2013 3:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: purenitro33

Why would you need a new crank? you should only need a rod and bearings for a rebuild so it shouldn't be too bad.

Although rods generally are the first to go, it is not unusual for crank pins to wear out. For example, although many fanboys of O.S. will disagree, non DLC coated O.S. cranks have a tendency to depart early.

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