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RE: best oil to use - 1/12/2013 4:42 PM   
dadragon


 

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Status: offline 		Brian; me too,penz @ 40:1,and I do not fly wide open all through the flite.Geo.

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RE: best oil to use - 1/12/2013 4:47 PM   
Lightspeed1551


 

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Status: offline 		My dad and I are running a Brision 52, OS GT55, (50:1) and a DLE 20 (30:1) on Klotz model lube. The engines could not be more different from each other but all of them are running strong and clean.


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RE: best oil to use - 1/12/2013 5:22 PM   
RCFlyerDan


 

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ORIGINAL: dadragon

I do not fly wide open all through the flite.Geo.


Hum....have no issues flying full throttle for the whole flight here.........vertical climbs, hovers, other high temperature engine stresses.........quality of engine? or quality of oil? Or both?


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RE: best oil to use - 1/12/2013 9:34 PM  1 votes
thepamster


 

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Status: offline 		It has been stated here by obviously experienced modelers that they have had success using Amsoil Saber at 100:1.
However, when someone has to ask the question which oil to use I would rather recommend a more basic oil easily mixed at a more standard 32/40:1 ballpark ratio as the question was asked by a likely beginner to gas airplanes.
You should follow the engine manufactures recommendation on oil ratios, at least for the breakin period.
 I use Stihl HP Ultra at 40:1 and regular gas from the same gas station every time.



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RE: best oil to use - 1/12/2013 10:42 PM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		Anyone that uses Amsoil at 100 : 1 is just asking for trouble.

I have a Brison 6.4 that I bought for $100 with brand new pistons and cylinders on it.  This engine had been run on Amsoil at 100 : 1

I have the original galled parts too.  The old pistons were galled on the exhaust side and there was aluminum transfer on the cylinders.

Amsoil is more silicones and friction modifiers than synthetic oil.

If you feel you must use Amsoil to prove a point or something, use it at a more realistic ratio. At 100:1, the slightest mixing error will be the ticket to failure.




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RE: best oil to use - 1/12/2013 10:43 PM  1 votes
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		Me too.I'm using klotz200 @ 20:1 in my fg57

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RE: best oil to use - 1/13/2013 1:29 AM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		I have talked with some of the small engine repair shop mechanics around here and they all say to stay away from Amsoil products it just destroys the engines. That may be users trying to mix it at 100:1 and not getting the mix correct too. At such a low oil to fuel ratio of 100:1 there is little to no margin for error. But since they repair the engines a lot, I figure they have seen it all already. They do not even have the stuff in their shops to sell either.

My main reason for useing Amsoil Saber Pro 100:1 was that it stated it could lube a engine at a 100;1 ratio. So I figured that if I used it at ratios that my current engines used, then it would work great. Well it does work great at the 20:1 to 25:1 and 32:1 ratios I have used. But it may be leaving a little too much carbon residue though. So I'll try something else for a while.  But I just cannot see trying it at 100:1 in any engine, unless I had the parts on hand to rebuild the engine, just in case. So I am impressed with those who pioneered the way and use it at 100:1 ratios. Way to go, my hats off to you.  I sure hope you all aren't Amsoil dealers trying to fake it though.







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RE: best oil to use - 1/13/2013 1:48 AM   
seagull extra


 

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Status: offline 		Use any 2 stroke dino oil on the market at 30 to 1 and you will be okay. Over many years of using 2 stroke engines I have noticed one thing in common with people who use synthetic oil. Most of them get to see what the inside of their engine looks like.

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RE: best oil to use - 1/13/2013 3:05 AM  1 votes
BarracudaHockey



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Status: offline 		+1, been there done that with Amsoil, hence my recomendation of using Red Line

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RE: best oil to use - 1/13/2013 11:17 AM  1 votes
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		From experience as a spraypainter re mixing volumes or weights to make a certain total i noticed how easy it was to screw up very small additions of tinters/to a colour you are mixing on a digital scale,made me more carefull dripping the oil into the petrol.

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RE: best oil to use - 1/13/2013 11:44 AM   
RCFlyerDan


 

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Status: offline 		Too each his own....guess I am careful with my mixing. Not sure what is so hard about puting 1 1/3 oz per gallon? If you are one of those who just guesses and pour oil from the bottle, Amsoil isn't for you, and probably some of the reasons of failure....operator error. I also buy quality engines, know how to tune them, AND Desert Aircraft recommends it for their 3 year warranty!! I have run my DA's and Zenoah's past warranty with no issues, and still running strong!! I think that the Amsoil is a higher vescosity, and thus you can mix it more diluted? I truly don't know, but it is all I use, and all my gas students use, and we all don't have engine issues. I also never said that you couldn't mix Amsoil in a higher concentration, such as 50:1, etc.

Like the one guy said, you can't go wrong mixing any oil at 32:1 and go fly! Again, it is do you like a Chevy or a Ford? And, NO, I am not a dealer....I buy it off of the Amsoil web site.

< Message edited by RCFlyerDan -- 1/13/2013 1:49 PM >


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RE: best oil to use - 1/13/2013 3:36 PM   
MTK



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Status: offline 		I make sure that after I add the oil, I add a little gas to the oil bottle and take out whatever oil was left on the wall of the bottle. I mix 5 gallons at a time at 50:1 so the error would be small regardless.

At 100:1, error margin is really very small, meaning, if 1 gallon was mixed at a time, small differences are exaggerated. If 5 gallons were mixed, error would be smaller, even at 100:1. Ratios such as 30:1 buy lots of margin for error, a good thing

But the bottom line is how well any oil attaches to the moving parts to provide the necessary lubricity. If the oil attaches well, and most of the oils mentioned do, a 5% error shouldn't amount to much in terms of long term engine service.


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RE: best oil to use - 1/13/2013 4:50 PM  1 votes
karolh


 

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Status: offline 		But why run the risk of damaging your engine by using such a high ratio of gas to oil mix.

Karol

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RE: best oil to use - 1/13/2013 5:06 PM   
earlwb


 

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Status: offline 		The larger gasoline engines are still holding up to this engine displacement versus oil needed rule (I discuss below) although the base oil levels needed is different. The big gas engines are typically running 32:1, 40:1 to 50:1 ratios in them. The mid size engines running around 32:1 ratios and the smaller engines running 20:1 to 25:1 ratios. Some folks were mentioning success at 80:1 too. as well as some others having success at 100:1.

I guess I'll have to accumulate the parts to rebuild a engine and run one at a 100:1 ratio and see what happens. Or maybe have a spare on hand instead.

Actually the oil ratio needed to lubricate a glow engine properly varies with that engine's displacement. A small engine such as a .020 engine may need as much as 33% oil in the fuel whereas a big  30cc engine may only need 8% to 12% oil in the fuel.
ref Model Airplane News January 2010. http://www.modelairplanenews-digital.com/man/201001?pg=51#pg51
In reference to Model Airplane News article in May 1974, they had really good success running 14% oil in a .40 engine for high performance too.
Duke Fox in the MAN 1989 August issue staed that larger motors need less oil than a smaller motor did. The reason was as the engine size increases its displacement goes up as the cube while the area to be lubricated goes up as the square. This is known as the lubricating area to displacement ratio. A engine with a 1.5 inch bore would be lubricated well with a 10% ratio of oil as well as a engine with a .75 inch bore would be at a 20% ratio.
They had a chart in the article that shows a 2.2 cubic inch engine requiring 10% oil whereas a .60 engine needed 16% oil.

Actually the glow fuel manufacturers have taken note of those articles and over time reduces the oil in the glow fuel to those levels too.

How much oil is needed with bushed rod gasoline engines is still a issue though. I would think everyone needs to err on the side of having more oil than is needed. Due to the special needs of four stroke engines having issues getting oil into the camshaft, followers and valve train a little more oil shouldn't hurt anything.

A engine with all needle bearings, roller bearings or ball bearings on all of the rotating surfaces along with advanced cylinder to piston plating methods may be able to get away with very little oil lubrication in it too.   If I remember right a Swedish engine company made the Daimo 1.20 twin glow four stroke  engine, and when it first came out, they suggested no oil at all for lubrication. Later they changed it to suggest something like 5% oil.




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RE: best oil to use - 1/13/2013 11:12 PM   
MTK



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Status: offline 		At 50:1 ?? That's worked great for 3 years and 7 gas engines, using BelRay MC1. I'm not changing my technique until something better comes along. The chances of that happening are slim and none....Just saw Slim leave the room...LOL


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RE: best oil to use - 1/15/2013 8:09 PM   
Granpooba


 

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Status: offline 		KLOTZ ! No more needs to be said on this subject.

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RE: best oil to use - 1/15/2013 10:36 PM   
ZAGNUT



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Status: offline 		klotz benol, been using it for years. first time i put it in dad's chainsaw he gave me a funny look and said "hey, why does this smell like your model engines"?

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RE: best oil to use - 1/16/2013 12:14 PM   
Old Fart


 

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RE: best oil to use - 1/16/2013 9:11 PM   
rexbirk


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

I'm glad y'all said something, reminds me I put oil in the gas can the other day and need to fill it up on the way to the field when I knock off at lunch time and head out

You Florida Guys make me so mad. If I knocked off and went flying now the only thing I would get is frostbite!

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RE: best oil to use - 1/17/2013 1:32 PM   
Brian Smith


 

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Status: offline 		Well handy man. Did you get an answer to your question. ? . I suggest from now on when starting oil questions, the thread starter should ask, "What is the safest oil for my motor" Then you can easily see 90% of those responding will Say Red line, Stihl Ultra or Pennzoil for air cooled engines. And I suggest they take the advise of the vast majority. Brian


quote:

ORIGINAL: handyman

ok guys whats the best oil to use...........i have 70cc twin (MLD)..........also..sould i use high test or reg gas



< Message edited by Brian Smith -- 1/17/2013 3:09 PM >

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RE: best oil to use - 1/17/2013 2:48 PM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: offline 		NO BEST OIL.....MORE IMPORTANT IS CORRECT OIL TOO GAS RATIO AND CARB NEEDLE MIXTURE SETTINGS.       Capt,n

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RE: best oil to use - 1/17/2013 11:36 PM   
Granpooba


 

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NO BEST OIL.....MORE IMPORTANT IS CORRECT OIL TOO GAS RATIO AND CARB NEEDLE MIXTURE SETTINGS.       Capt,n


And what exactly are the correct CARB NEEDLE MXTURE SETTINGS for each OIL TO GAS RATIO ?

Kust kidding ! I know you can not answer that one.

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RE: best oil to use - 1/18/2013 4:12 PM   
karolh


 

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Status: offline 		Of course he could and would possibly tell you that the correct needle settings are those that allows the engine to develop it's best performance in all attitudes.

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RE: best oil to use - 1/18/2013 6:52 PM   
captinjohn


 

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Status: offline 		Granpooba, If I did reply to that how too...it would be a book too long too read and too long to type!  Just about all the data you would need is already posted anyway.  Search is the key word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Capt,n

< Message edited by captinjohn -- 1/18/2013 7:17 PM >

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RE: best oil to use - 1/21/2013 2:07 PM   
Brian Roth


 

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Status: offline 		I just finished breaking in a new DA 50. Is it alright to remove the carburetor bolts to install an intake extension? Will I have to replace the seals?

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