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Sherman M4A4???? - 1/22/2013 8:29 PM   
Patski


 

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From: St-Constant, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		i'm looking for my first Canadian build for the summer, and I found this M4 Sherman nicknamed "Bomb" Great history and it's actually very close to me.. 1h drive to see it, History says that it's an M4A4 but somebody on RC tank Warfare pointed out that in fact, looking close at the idlers it look in fact more like a M4A2..the idlers are too close to each others to be a M4A4...what do you guys think?

http://en.tracesofwar.com/article/27270/M4A4-Sherman-Tank-Bomb.htm

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/22/2013 9:08 PM   
Ex_Pat_Tanker


 

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From: Brentwood, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		It has what looks like the British style track hangers on the glacis plate, but this wouldn't rule out the A2 variant, only that its not a US issued M4.
The hull could conceivably be an M4A4, the springs would compress over time and make the bogies push out and closer together - closing the gap between them some what. - only way to check to look at the rear engine deck (or measure the hull length).

What does make me wonder tho is that I had read that all the Shermans in depots were taken in hand and modified at the end of 1943 or so, to add the armour upgrades (hull plates present, but turret patch missing) and the wider M34A1 mantlet with the telescopic sight (M34 mantlet and periscope sight on this turret) (and also some other stuff I don't recall off the top of my head). Could be the hull is original and the turret added later?

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/22/2013 9:15 PM   
septon


 

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From: dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		looks more like an M4A2 to me

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/22/2013 9:27 PM   
septon


 

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From: dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		and all m4a4 shermans have a 3 piece trans covers and pics of bomb from ww2 show it was fitted with the 1 piece trans cover


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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/22/2013 10:17 PM   
Patski


 

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Status: offline 		I actually sent an email to the museum where it is exposed to have more details... I hope somebody in that museum knows about tanks a bit...


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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/22/2013 10:28 PM   
septon


 

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From: dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		hers a pic of bomb in the war


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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/22/2013 11:20 PM   
modelbob71


 

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Status: offline 		Looks like it could be the BOMB to me. Same sproket, tow lugs,direct vision visors, gun mantlet, remains of rack on glacis plate and standard M4 suspension.

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/23/2013 1:44 AM   
Patski


 

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From: St-Constant, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Found that on Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherbrooke_Hussars


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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/26/2013 5:00 AM   
WhiteWolf McBride


 

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Status: offline 		Well, lesse... (yea, I'm still alive guys!)

At first, I thought perhaps someone malf'd up, and confused an M4A4 (aka Sherman V) with an M4A3 (aka Sherman IV or '4') Then I decided I had to consider the angle of the photograph.

PrimePortal has these pics of an M4A4 (aka Brit Sherman V) Firefly: you can see the noticably larger gap between the bogiewheels (I tried to pic images with a comparable viewing angle)



The gap is MUCH more noticable when you look at it squarely from the side, as in this image of the same vehicle:



Compare it to this pic of an M4A3 from the same website, and at a similar angle:



From that angle, the bogiewheels on the A3 seem to be almost touching.

Considering the angle of the shot, I'd bet that it ~is~ an A4. Its the shot-angle thats making the 'gap' thats there seem smaller.

Just my opinion/assessment,
WhiteWolf
- with 1:1 wheels, ~w/o~ idjit nephew, & sadly, w/o $ he owes me too ;-(

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/26/2013 11:46 AM   
Patski


 

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From: St-Constant, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		wow! thanks for the pics! it makes sense now


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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/26/2013 12:00 PM   
septon


 

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Status: offline 		well i have done some looking and it is a M4A2 not a M4A4 i have found some video of bomb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE8FtfhJ98

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/26/2013 12:42 PM   
septon


 

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From: dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Serial Number 8007
Type M4A2(75)
Manufacturer Fisher
Correct R/N 3063256
Notes DV, "The Bomb" (Original); combat vet. Build number 898 (side)
Location Sherbrooke Hussars regiment, Sherbrooke
Country Canada
French or British R/N WD No. T-152656



R/N : Registration Number (the number painted in white on the sides of the tanks)

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/26/2013 2:24 PM   
YHR



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From: Grande Prairie, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		WOW What a great video. I can't say I have ever seen a better done wartime battle film. It breaks my heart to see Bomb with Graffiti on it. A truly amazing little Sherman that saw a lot of action. Looks like the dog survived as well!!!!!.

Thanks so much for posting that video. A pretty unique perspective to see a video history of a WWII tank throughout it's battle campaigns. Looks like it had some great commanders and crew along the way.

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/26/2013 4:25 PM   
Patski


 

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From: St-Constant, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		I guess it answers all my questions now!


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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/26/2013 5:48 PM   
Panther G


 

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Status: offline 		I thought the M4A2's where all sent to Russia under lend lease. It was an export only wasnt it? And they where also diesel powered weren't they?
 I guess going to the Canadians does fall under Lend Lease just didn't realize the Brits and Canadians used them too.


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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/26/2013 6:56 PM   
Panther F



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther G

I thought the M4A2's where all sent to Russia under lend lease. It was an export only wasnt it? And they where also diesel powered weren't they?
 I guess going to the Canadians does fall under Lend Lease just didn't realize the Brits and Canadians used them too.




Lend Lease is Lend Lease although it was more popularly used by the Soviets it was only primarily the one they wanted because of the fuel. I also read the Steve Zaloga reported that the Soviets replaced some of the 75MM with their own 76.2 gun, making the Sherman an M4M.













~ Jeff

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/27/2013 12:33 AM   
Panther G


 

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Status: offline 		I have seen pictures of Russian M4A2's with the long 76's but thought they were the same as our 76's. Muzzel brakes were the same. I'm sure they could have used thier 76 in some. I don't know if thier barrel was the same length as the one we used.

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/27/2013 8:59 AM   
WhiteWolf McBride


 

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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		*shrug*

Told ya judging from such an angle shot was tough. Guess I was wrong, and if I'm down that way, I'll try to get pics. Mebbe one of the Mtl tankers can slip over when the weather is better?

I hope someone is going to send a note to the Hussar's website to update them, and someone edits the Wiki with the corrected data? Its even a bigger shame when an historical site about a unit has incorrect data about one of the regimental artifacts. Then again, if they checked the data-plate (if she still has hers) it might confirm or deny thats the ~real~ 'Bomb'.

Its a pain when someone uses 'assumed' data to edit an online encyclopedia that many use, and then cite it as fact, when almost anyone can edit it.

I think the Hussars would love a copy of the video from youttube, for their archives, if they don't already have it.

WhiteWolf

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/27/2013 2:12 PM   
Patski


 

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From: St-Constant, QC, CANADA
Status: offline 		i'm an hour away from Sherbrooke, I will probably go and see it in person next spring... and take more detailed pics as well for my build


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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/27/2013 2:17 PM   
Panther F



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From: Franklin, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Nick sells the Early M4A3 with a low bustle turret and Early M34 mantlet & gun.

This I'm quite sure you can convert it easily into the M4A4.














~ Jeff

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/28/2013 6:48 PM   
rgallant


 

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From: Mission, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Just for general information the bulk of the Shermans used by Canada were A4's with some A2's as well. There were some other models used but they were somewhat rare. Generally they broke out on a unit basis but not always, most the Sherbrooke images I have show A2's

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RE: Sherman M4A4???? - 1/29/2013 1:06 AM   
WhiteWolf McBride


 

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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Guys...

Some of you are still pegging 'Bomb' as an M4A4.

The video shows both close-set VVSS bogies of most M4 models, and characteristic wide-set VVSS bogies of the A4, BUT... the final shot in that video (10:17 time-hack) of 'Bomb' after she was returned to Canada, shows close-set bogies, so it is NOT an A4. Septon has posted the data, she was an M4A2, hence a diesel beastie.

Some of the pics show M4's with other tracks, but 'Bomb' appears to have the T54E1 type... (freeze it at 09:38, when Bomb is loaded onto the lowboy) and no duckbills as of her loading onto the lowboy.

Lets hope the Sherbrooke Fusileers update their site, and someone edits the Wiki listing so that history is not corrupted by guesses.

if I get a good reason to head down that way, I'll have a gander myself.

WhiteWolf

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