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Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 2:15 AM

wmh0901

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I bought a cheap ZD Racing car for $90 at Christmas and the place I bought it actually sent me two. I emailed them but never heard back so I kept it. We have had a lot of fun with these but I stripped the differential on the first day..bought a cheap part and fixed it but now one of the servos is gone. I have now spent about the same price that I paid for the car in parts to keep it running. I do have the fever and had more fun repairing them. This is a 4wd brushless Truck with lipo batteries. It is a 1/16th scale. For the money it was a great deal but cheaply built. I have read and searched as much as I can and then finally joined this forum. I am 42 years old with no kids yet....we are adopting a son and he could be here anyday. I have the 2s LIPO batteries that I would like to continue to use. I don't want to set speed records. The little ZD racer got up to 25mph...(I taped my iPhone to it with a GPS app!) That is fast enough for me but the truck does flip over a lot in the turns. I want a 1/10 scale brushless 4wd vehicle that can run the full size LIPOs that I already have. Prices are all over the place. From what I see here on this site, Traxxas seems to be the favorite but from what I understand they use a smaller battery in the smaller scale cars so I don't think the batteries I have will work. I looked at Redcat racing but they do not seemed to be a favorite becuase of durability. I want something that I can take out on Saturday morning and just have fun with. I do want to jump it and run it through the dirt without worrying about something breaking. So my question to the froum is, if you were me and had $300 to spend, what would you suggest? I don't think I can get LIPO batteries stock at that price point and that is OK. I f I can use the ones I have that would be great but not a deal breaker. I am sure this has been posted before so I apologize if this is in the wrong place. I am posting a picture of the battery that I have in case someone can recognize it.

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 2:27 AM

t9dragon

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You should take a look at the Savage XS.. HPI calls it a mini but it isn't much smaller than a 1/10 rc and it uses 1/10 scale batteries and electronics.

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 2:33 AM

nitrosportsandrunner

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wmh0901

I bought a cheap ZD Racing car for $90 at Christmas and the place I bought it actually sent me two. I emailed them but never heard back so I kept it. We have had a lot of fun with these but I stripped the differential on the first day..bought a cheap part and fixed it but now one of the servos is gone. I have now spent about the same price that I paid for the car in parts to keep it running. I do have the fever and had more fun repairing them. This is a 4wd brushless Truck with lipo batteries. It is a 1/16th scale. For the money it was a great deal but cheaply built. I have read and searched as much as I can and then finally joined this forum. I am 42 years old with no kids yet....we are adopting a son and he could be here anyday. I have the 2s LIPO batteries that I would like to continue to use. I don't want to set speed records. The little ZD racer got up to 25mph...(I taped my iPhone to it with a GPS app!) That is fast enough for me but the truck does flip over a lot in the turns. I want a 1/10 scale brushless 4wd vehicle that can run the full size LIPOs that I already have. Prices are all over the place. From what I see here on this site, Traxxas seems to be the favorite but from what I understand they use a smaller battery in the smaller scale cars so I don't think the batteries I have will work. I looked at Redcat racing but they do not seemed to be a favorite becuase of durability. I want something that I can take out on Saturday morning and just have fun with. I do want to jump it and run it through the dirt without worrying about something breaking. So my question to the froum is, if you were me and had $300 to spend, what would you suggest? I don't think I can get LIPO batteries stock at that price point and that is OK. I f I can use the ones I have that would be great but not a deal breaker. I am sure this has been posted before so I apologize if this is in the wrong place. I am posting a picture of the battery that I have in case someone can recognize it.

the traxxas options are good, but as you noted a 4wd 1/10 traxxas runs well over $300.
And even then, they are only good with a few rpm and other upgrades.
The speeds brushless models can hit means that even fully upgraded ones (with $$$ invested) can still break.
I have owned all of the redcat epx pro models. If a buggy works for you, the tornado epx pro is a good option. Its brushless, rtr, and 4wd. Unlike its volcano (mt) version, the buggies smaller wheels means less stress on the driveline/suspension parts.
And I have found that small mods that dont cost a dime make big difference in the durability of these models.
That said, they will break. But at $200 RTR its a heck of a buggy. Parts are also cheap. Only real upgrade thats worth it is the billet alloy shock towers and better tires. Will do over 35mph on a 2s lipo.

I dont know if I can think of any other $300 or less, 4wd brushless RTR models. There are a few $200 kits, but then you have to buy a brushless system/radio/servo...which will be more than $100 for sure.

You can sometimes find a used traxxas slash 4wd or stampede 4wd for $300 rtr.

So, you kinda either gotta save up more $$$, finda used big brand 4wd brushless, or settle for a redcat. If you enjoy tinkering on RC's, the last option isnt so bad. Redcat gets a bad rep sometimes because those totally new to the hobby buy one because of the price, then blame the brand when it breaks and they dont know how (or dont want to) fix it.

This is my honest opinion, the redcat epx pro models would be nearly as durable as the traxxas 4x4 models if they had a slipper clutch. The lack of a slipper clutch means if you land a jump with the throttle on, something is likely to give. Again, not a problem for someone who has been driving RCs for awhile. We all know not to land with the throttle wide open.

I know I will get ragged on for the above statement, but as I said, Ive had all the redcat brushless models...and the traxxas vxl 2wd and 4wd models. I can honestly say I replaced as many parts on my slash 4x4 as I have my tornado epx pro. But then, I lucked out and bought my slash 4x4 used for just over $200!

pretty cool that place sent you 2 of the ZD models. Never had a ZD myself. (never seen one for sale actually)

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 2:35 AM

nitrosportsandrunner

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quote:

ORIGINAL: t9dragon

You should take a look at the Savage XS.. HPI calls it a mini but it isn't much smaller than a 1/10 rc and it uses 1/10 scale batteries and electronics.

when I saw it for the 1st time up close, I was depressed. Its just to small and to tall. I havent owned/driven one so I cant say how it handles. But with that power plant there is no reason the wheel base and width couldnt have been just 1 inch longer/wider. It would have been twice the truck it is, if they had made it just a bit bigger.

Plus, isnt it still over $300 new???

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 2:49 AM

SyCo_VeNoM

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those lipos are pretty crummy only 30Amps max draw 1/10th scale 4wd RC's will destroy them in short order.

If you want to stay cheap could get a DF-02, do a few mods to it for durability (there's a simple cheap fork mod that strengthens it drastically) the kits like $125 throw in a cheap Hobby wing 35A Brushless combo (prolly $85), and a cheap 2.4ghz radio (unless the ZD has a 2.4ghz radio then you can probably use that) with a servo. Parts are not the most common, but can be ordered from Japan, China, or tamiyausa. Japan a few parts I needed were cheaper than tamiyausa even after shipping, and came way faster than from tamiya(hell I even got a free gundam model like 2 months later from the hobby shop as I guess I won a customer prize drawing

). That is literally one of the lowest cost 1/10th scale 4wd RC's you will find.

It can take $20 lipos (I know of one that fits good).

the traxxas 1/16ths take a weird sized battery http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-25c-1550-2s1p.html battery fits so you can use the measurements to compare yours to that.

Also note the merv needs some work out of the box to get it to handle even remotely decent with its stock setup it was one of the worst handling RC's I've drove

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 5:58 AM

SyCo_VeNoM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wmh0901

That's the thing, from what I have read here, everyone has an opinion on which is the most durable. One post said he has owned several of the Red Cat products and they seem as durable as some of the other high end models and then others say they broke the first day. For what I am going to be doing with it, I can't justify (yet) spending $400+. I hear ya though. I like repairing them but I would rather not have to everytime I run it. I can see now why most of you have multiple cars.

well theres multiple reasons to own multiples lol

reasons I own multiples of the same model

In my DF-02s case I got one setup as a brushless speed machine buggy, other is set up with Stadium truck tires/rims, and a stadium truck body, and was kept brushed for my 5yo nephew to drive.
Jammin .5's I got one setup as a 1/8th scale buggy (used a scrt chassis to extent it) other is setup as a 1/12th scale truggy. I'll be honest if they still sold the kit I would have recommended this as the kit was $75, and for $25 more you could get the parts to make it electric easily. This sucker was really a steal.
MT1's one was bought as a box of spare parts cheap for the 1st one I got. Looked in the box, and found I had a 100% complete RC laying in pieces in the box and reassembled it.

last reason most the ones I got duplicates of I got for deals I couldn't refuse

Like the 2nd df-02 was actually a bootleg I bought at target a few years back that was like $90 with tax, The jammin .5 I needed another body for mine, and my LHS wanted $45 for the body vs the whole kit was $75... (hard call eh?), and the 2nd MT1 I paid $40 for vs $120 for the lemon (I mentioned in the bottom of the post I did prior)

One guy who used to work at my LHS had 3 of every model he owned cause he liked to keep one setup for racing, one for bashing, and one just in case one of the other 2 broke, and he needed one fast. There was a guy that had like 20 savages on this forum(he had a pick of all of em) he had each one setup different. So it all comes down to the person.

Now if you just mean multiple RC's period its easy its cause one RC can't do everything, and all the different styles(and even brands) behave differently, and some are better for some situations than others

Plus if you have to wait for parts to be in stock for one(like I am currently for my merv) you have another to drive

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 1:23 PM

nitrosportsandrunner

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wmh0901

Wow, great advice. We have a small hobby shop in my town and he only carries Traxxas and Team Associated parts. The owner is also kind of a jerk because when I asked him about parts he laughed and told me I got what I paid for. I knew that and bought the little car on a whim and now I am hooked. I have developed a good relationship with Wondertrail hobbies as they were the only ones that I found that carried all the parts I needed for the little ZD racer. I have narrowed it down to these three. Thanks again for all of the advice and I think I will end up with the RedCat buggy. I just have a feeling that wing on the back cannot be that durable but the low center of gravity will be a huge help and the fact that it is a 1/10. I have to admit for me the little 1/16th is so much fun. It flips around and cartwheels all over the place so I am already preparing for the two I have to surely die soon. Here is what I have come up with.

RED045 Volcano EPX Pro 1/10 Electric Monster Truck by Redcat

RED046 Tornado EPX PRO 1/10 Scale Brushless Buggy by Redcat

TX7107 E-Revo VXL 1/16 Scale RTR 4WD Monster Truck by Traxxas - I love the way this one looks and it has sealed differentials and some waterproofing around the electronics. the other two can be had for $200 or less around the web and I can use the extra $100 for upgrades. This Traxxas is $300 and then I have to upgrade the battery and charger. Decisions Decisions. Thank you again for the input.

I will second syco's reccomendation of the tamiya DF-02. It will cost more than a tornado epx pro (kit plus brushless system and a decent radio) but with 1 or 2 small mods is a tough buggy.
If you think you'd enjoy building your model, then the tamiya is a plus there.
The tamiya plasma edge (df-02) is around $130. Then add a $80 ezrun brushless system, a $30 flysky 2.4 ghz radio and Id throw in a better servo for $20. So around $250 not including a battery.

Possible issues with the redcat are:
dogbones break
body cracks
shock towers bend
diff gears strip.
The diffs stripping is rare., but I have had it happen. The other 3 can be avoided with simple mods. Tape the inside of the body, add nitro fuel tubing to the inside of the diff cups (cushions dog bones and reduces play) and upgrading to the billet alloy shock towers.

Im not going to tell you the tornado is the most durable 1/10 4wd buggy. The DF-02 is a bit more durable. But for the money its hard to beat.
Oh, the buggy is more durable than the volcano due to its smaller tires. Puts less stress on the driveline and suspension parts.

tbone racing has a good front bumper for the tornado. I also found that with a simple mod a RPM bumper for a traxxas rustler fits nicely.

the df-02 plasma edge I owned, and 2 vids of my tornado:
second video is a box stock tornado running a 2s 5000mah lipo battery. Ran the whole pack with no breakage.

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 2:39 PM

phmaximus

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Ive never heard anything badabout the DF02, I love my DF01/TA01 and the DF02 is said to be better.

I cant comment on the 1/16 revos, but I can say the 1/16 ken block rally car is the worst handling unpredictable car ive ever driven and owned.

Personally I would get something 2nd hand, u should be able to get something really good for $300 2nd hand.

If u have to buy it new, Check out Thunder Tiger, people say they are good.

If it was me. I would get a Losi Mini 1/14 8ight

• Length: 11.49 in (292mm)
• Width: 8.03 in (204mm)
• Height: 4.33 in (110mm)

Even tho its 1/14, its really not that much smaller than the Tamiya DF02

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 3:00 PM

nitrosportsandrunner

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with the exception of the mini slash, I wouldnt own any of the 1/16 vxl's. and the mini slash I would only own in brushed form.
why, any thing smaller than 1/10 that can do better than 30mph just sucks (my opinion)
and I have little use for a brushess model that cant handle grass or rough terrain.
Ive had a mini summit vxl. I was pumped, expecting a sweet mini that could go alot of places, would have speed and be fun. I spent more time walking over to the model and putting it back on its wheels than anything else.
Stock shocks fall apart as well.

Id own the mini slash brushed version because for a mini it handles well and has a nice scale look. It leans nice like the bigger trucks. But again, make it brushless and that handling goes to crap.

ANY model, no matter how expensive or what brand makes it, will need repairs at some point. And most every model has a weakness known to anywone who has owned it.
DF-02, the front suspension arm mounts snap off (requiring a whole new chassis) but the fix is simple with some longer suspension pins that tie into the rest of the chassis.
The tornado epx pro lacks a slipper clutch. these means if you dont know how to drive you will end up with broken driveline parts. There is also to much play with the dogbones (fuel line tube fixes that) and the stock servos are so-so. Some die kinda quick, mine has lasted many packs. Upgrade metal gear servos are cheap tho.
There are owners of the savage flux who are replacing diffs. Thats a pricey truck to have to replace diffs on. For that kinda money youd think the would build a driveline that could handle the power better.

But thats my point. NO model, no matter how expensive is without issues.
And lets face it guys, the RC companies do this on purpose. They make more money on parts then they do on the models! I mean, you can buy a traxxas rustler vxl for a bit over $300....but to replace the vxl system alone is $150. See where the profit is there for them?

to the OP, review youtube vids of the models in your price range. vids always help me decide if I want a model or not.

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 8:14 PM

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I'm not a car guy, so most of the guys on this forum would know more than I do, but you might look into the Traxxas Rustler XL-5. I bought one of these for my 15 yr old daughter for xmas and she has been thrilled. It is very durable, will run on your existing 2s batteries and is a 1/10 scale stadium truck. Price at hobbytown USA was $214.00 with tax. While the XL-5 isn't bushless, it is fast and, according to Traxxas, is capable to 35mph, with the lipo battery and the extra gear they include in the box.

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/23/2013 10:46 PM

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Calling the df02 a piece of junk because your grandson broke 2 parts in one day and you can't even tell us which parts doesn't make sense.

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/24/2013 12:42 AM

wmh0901

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Wow, you guys are hardcore. Great pieces of advice like the Revo being the size of what I have now. Almost pulled the trigger on Amazon and then read the one post where he spends a lot of time flipping it back over. With the 2 lipos I could see me doing this a lot. I am progessing so I need to go to a 1/10th scale. Really cool advice on different views. I think I would mostly be running through dirt and leaves and such as we have down here in Tennessee. Also good comments that made me think "do I really need to go 50mph through leaves?" I would destroy that thing. I'll go with the RedCat buggy for under $200 and spend the rest on upgrades and then fish around here for advice on how to keep it in the best shape. Thanks again and I appreciate the advice. Try not to kill each other on here. I would like to know why Traxxas does not appear favorably on here. At least not in this post. Is it becuase they are like the Wal-Mart of RCs or is their stuff crap? They seem a bit on the high side so I thought it would be higher grade product. ON ANOTHER NOTE......This is the Chinese 1/16th car that geeks.com accidentally sent me two of. This is what got me started. It is called a ZD Racer? You can get parts from the outer reaches of the internet but they are dying quick. Can anyone tell me by looking at these pics if there is something else out there with similar parts?

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/24/2013 12:45 AM

wmh0901

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Picture of the box.

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/24/2013 1:46 AM 1 votes

SyCo_VeNoM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wmh0901

Wow, you guys are hardcore. Great pieces of advice like the Revo being the size of what I have now. Almost pulled the trigger on Amazon and then read the one post where he spends a lot of time flipping it back over. With the 2 lipos I could see me doing this a lot. I am progessing so I need to go to a 1/10th scale. Really cool advice on different views. I think I would mostly be running through dirt and leaves and such as we have down here in Tennessee. Also good comments that made me think ''do I really need to go 50mph through leaves?'' I would destroy that thing. I'll go with the RedCat buggy for under $200 and spend the rest on upgrades and then fish around here for advice on how to keep it in the best shape. Thanks again and I appreciate the advice. Try not to kill each other on here. I would like to know why Traxxas does not appear favorably on here. At least not in this post. Is it becuase they are like the Wal-Mart of RCs or is their stuff crap? They seem a bit on the high side so I thought it would be higher grade product. ON ANOTHER NOTE......This is the Chinese 1/16th car that geeks.com accidentally sent me two of. This is what got me started. It is called a ZD Racer? You can get parts from the outer reaches of the internet but they are dying quick. Can anyone tell me by looking at these pics if there is something else out there with similar parts?

Well that's easy IMO its cause the price point vs quality.
Honestly the XL-5's I USED to recommend all the time, but then traxxas raised the prices of them by over $50 and well that was all that they changed on them. They didn't give the 2.4ghz radio, or make any other type of change like fixing the problematic front pins that have been issues since the design was used (I think it was 14 years ago).
Then you have companies that are selling 2WD's that are in the same exact class, with a 2.4ghz radio(spectrum so its not a cheap one) for under $190(they used to be $120 till they included the new radio). And from what I saw in reviews they could take more of a beating without breaking.
Then there are their other models the maxx line that has the same exact flaws as the day they came out (I think it was 7-10 years ago) prices went up the same issues persist, same with a few other models.
Currently IMO one of their better RC's they sell is the pede 4X4, but even that is pretty high in price for a 1/10th scale.

Then there is the somewhat deceptive packaging where some new person reads OMG 70 MPH than takes it off road not reading the extremely fine print that says on-road for short bursts, and burns their electronics out asking for help.

Also ask nitrosportsandrunner about that redcat model as he is a redcat dealer, and knows the ins and outs of most of them (well he knows the good ones at least)

kyleshrub Its fine to disagree with me I only asked what in the world broke on your grandsons supposed DF-02, that would have ended that. Instead you ignored the easy question, then went and hand picked certain words, rearranged em in your head, and started accusing me of typing things thing that were never even said in the thread, then act like the victim. As for disagreeing with me there are quite a few members that do, in civilized manners, and when they will disagree they wil usually put why not just say its a piece of junk with no reason.
I'll be honest there was only a handful of members I can think of slamming, and guess what they were pretty much exactly like you. Came in started talking trash immediately, putting down people asking questions*, calling certain RC's crap, and when asked what in the world they owned got hyper defensive just like you.

*the post about the guy asking for help with his redcat and you butted in telling him to go read the manual, while a guy who is a redcat dealer was trying to help him out. I can tell you never owned a redcat as the manual doesn't have a spot for issues like he had(hell can't even remember the one I had having a FAQ period). Personally if I had nothing to add to a topic I wouldn't have posted(like I didn't in that thread).

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/24/2013 3:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SyCo_VeNoM

quote:

ORIGINAL: wmh0901

Wow, you guys are hardcore. Great pieces of advice like the Revo being the size of what I have now. Almost pulled the trigger on Amazon and then read the one post where he spends a lot of time flipping it back over. With the 2 lipos I could see me doing this a lot. I am progessing so I need to go to a 1/10th scale. Really cool advice on different views. I think I would mostly be running through dirt and leaves and such as we have down here in Tennessee. Also good comments that made me think ''do I really need to go 50mph through leaves?'' I would destroy that thing. I'll go with the RedCat buggy for under $200 and spend the rest on upgrades and then fish around here for advice on how to keep it in the best shape. Thanks again and I appreciate the advice. Try not to kill each other on here. I would like to know why Traxxas does not appear favorably on here. At least not in this post. Is it becuase they are like the Wal-Mart of RCs or is their stuff crap? They seem a bit on the high side so I thought it would be higher grade product. ON ANOTHER NOTE......This is the Chinese 1/16th car that geeks.com accidentally sent me two of. This is what got me started. It is called a ZD Racer? You can get parts from the outer reaches of the internet but they are dying quick. Can anyone tell me by looking at these pics if there is something else out there with similar parts?

Well that's easy IMO its cause the price point vs quality.
Honestly the XL-5's I USED to recommend all the time, but then traxxas raised the prices of them by over $50 and well that was all that they changed on them. They didn't give the 2.4ghz radio, or make any other type of change like fixing the problematic front pins that have been issues since the design was used (I think it was 14 years ago).
Then you have companies that are selling 2WD's that are in the same exact class, with a 2.4ghz radio(spectrum so its not a cheap one) for under $190(they used to be $120 till they included the new radio). And from what I saw in reviews they could take more of a beating without breaking.
Then there are their other models the maxx line that has the same exact flaws as the day they came out (I think it was 7-10 years ago) prices went up the same issues persist, same with a few other models.
Currently IMO one of their better RC's they sell is the pede 4X4, but even that is pretty high in price for a 1/10th scale.

Then there is the somewhat deceptive packaging where some new person reads OMG 70 MPH than takes it off road not reading the extremely fine print that says on-road for short bursts, and burns their electronics out asking for help.

Also ask nitrosportsandrunner about that redcat model as he is a redcat dealer, and knows the ins and outs of most of them (well he knows the good ones at least)

kyleshrub Its fine to disagree with me I only asked what in the world broke on your grandsons supposed DF-02, that would have ended that. Instead you ignored the easy question, then went and hand picked certain words, rearranged em in your head, and started accusing me of typing things thing that were never even said in the thread, then act like the victim. As for disagreeing with me there are quite a few members that do, in civilized manners, and when they will disagree they wil usually put why not just say its a piece of junk with no reason.
I'll be honest there was only a handful of members I can think of slamming, and guess what they were pretty much exactly like you. Came in started talking trash immediately, putting down people asking questions*, calling certain RC's crap, and when asked what in the world they owned got hyper defensive just like you.

*the post about the guy asking for help with his redcat and you butted in telling him to go read the manual, while a guy who is a redcat dealer was trying to help him out. I can tell you never owned a redcat as the manual doesn't have a spot for issues like he had(hell can't even remember the one I had having a FAQ period). Personally if I had nothing to add to a topic I wouldn't have posted(like I didn't in that thread).

Man I wish I could be that level headed and diplomatic, I just get so annoyed with new members like that, and all I see is red

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/24/2013 5:41 AM

wmh0901

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Well I just pulled the trigger on a 1/10 Caldera from RedCat. For the truck, a lipo and an adapter plug....$266 shipped with one day shipping from Amazon. Thanks for all of the advice.

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/24/2013 7:52 AM

Haddi Taha

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have fun with your truck wmh0901, tell us how it runs when you receive it

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/24/2013 11:23 AM

lifeismuddy

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I was going to chime in and recommend the caldera xb! Great great buggy even the 10e is a great truck! You will need to upgrade the steering servo tho 3kg does not cut it and fails pretty quick. On 2s they are fast 3s and you cant control them! I feel you made a good decision and will be happy. Let us know what you think.

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/24/2013 6:33 PM

DieHard1207

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Get the savage XS...Period!

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBFNA&P=ML

EDIT: I'm actually in the process of saving for one. I have thought this through for a year now, and I am now completely sure this is what I want.

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RE: Can I get anything decent for under $300? - 1/24/2013 6:41 PM

SyCo_VeNoM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DieHard1207

Get the savage XS...Period!

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBFNA&P=ML

EDIT: I'm actually in the process of saving for one. I have thought this through for a year now, and I am now completely sure this is what I want.

the OP already ordered his he ended up getting a redcat Caldera

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