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Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered war birds - 1/30/2013 1:44 PM   
mikes68charger


 

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Status: offline 		 Ok I have been doing a lot of resurching on the different ways to add detail to your already covered war brides. The ones I'm working on are TF Gaint P47,P40, and P51

i need some ideals how to fix this

I got my P47 from my buddy who passed away and he got it last year at Teleto in OH

It's covered in silver and has nice panel lines in a dark silver with a ton of rivits.  I have spent over $40 looking for a silver marker to finish the job on this plane with no luck. (Office Max, Joians, HobbyLobby) Everything I find has to much metallic/shinny.  I just fig out last night I can remove the rivits with some paint thinner. Even thou it will be a pain as for some reason he used the big rivit methought with the canopy glue only on one side if the plane, I guess the original owner planed on going back over these with a marker

I have seen the vid on you tube about useing a heat tool to make nice rivits with brass fuel tubes wich look great, but if any one can point me in the direction on a flat silver marker for rivits I may just finish it as is.







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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 1:48 PM   
mikes68charger


 

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Status: offline 		 Here are some pics. 



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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 2:02 PM   
mikes68charger


 

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Status: offline 		 The othere issue I'm haveing in finishing this modles is the cowl. It's real nice and feels thick but there is cracking in the paint that makes it look like crap

Were the white is cracked you can see black in the crack marks. These cracks are deep. Can hang your nale in them. So I dont know if it is a clear coat or primer/base coat issue. And why some of it turned pink is beyond me. And its odd as it looks like the stock base silver is un effected.

How would you fix this?



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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 2:53 PM   
Dash7ATP



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My first question would have to be is the present finish on the plane. Plastic film or paint?  If it's an ARF with a film, fon't worry about it. The only type of rivits you couild use will be on a tape of press on dry transfer. The tape looks like crap and the press on (think ProMark) will require more pressure to apply and you'll bruise the balsa underneath it.

IF it's a painted surface, you can do it pretty easily, but will pprobably have to add more paint to make it look OK.  The burned in rivits do look good. I'v done several projects using that technique. HOwever for the best results, it should be used only on a glassed and painted surface, and I'm thinking an epoxy or automotive type paint.  Iuse a wood burning tool with a modified tip. You need to be able to use different sized brass tubes with sharpened edges for the differfent sizes of rivits or fasteners. You will also need to be able to control the voltage going to the tool as the temperature is very critical and changes from one surface to another. By that I mean a fiberglass cowl will requier a different temperature than a glassed balsa surface. These are ony for flush type rivits, obviously.

For the raised style rivits, a small blunt type needle filled with white glue is what I use.

The cowl paint is obvoously due to a mismatch in type of paint.   Sand it all off and start over.  Sorry.

Dash



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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 3:06 PM   
John Redman


 

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Status: online 		On a film covered model you can easily add the traditional flush rivets done the same way on many Top Gun or Scalemaster's quality models. I outline the entire process in my Hangar 9 P-47 build series of videos.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/article/2349-john-redman-builds-the-hangar-9-p-47d-thunderbolt-30cc

See videos 13, 14, and 15 for the panel lines, rivet detail, and weathering. Easy Peasy!!!

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 3:15 PM   
mikes68charger


 

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Status: offline 		Mr John I wached your you tube clip last night and I think you way is going to be my only option.

I was planing on going to the hobby store durning lunch to see if they had that heat iron you used.

My qestion to you is, you have to spray the flat coat down first then do the rivets? Or as Mine already hase the lines should I do the rivits then the clear coat?

Would you mind showing a close up pic of our work?

It was a little hard to tell how the finsih product looked up close on your clip.

Thanks for sharing.



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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 3:57 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		Take the cowl and sand off all the paint, you'll need to repaint it.

You dont want to rivet over the rivets that are already on the plane. You have two options. Remove the covering and recover. Then follow John's Videos and use his method to detail. Or leave the rivets etc. as they are. That is unless you can remove them via alcohol or another solvent.

A trim iron from any of the manufactures will work just fine. You'll need to make the adaptor for the brass tubing. Not a difficult chore.

FYI not to get to anal or anything but the "rivets" on the canopy should be phillip head screws and not huge.

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 4:18 PM   
Ron101



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Status: offline 		I think fritz dezings clear rivits for ARF's look pretty cool... in fact that is what I'm planning for my Giant Scale H9 P-47
looks easy and gives a good effect... also like the fact I can iron out wrinkles and they will be fine...
I've pressed in rivits in monokote and after bubbles form when you heat the film it pulls out the rivits

http://www.fritzdezings.com/products-main-decals.html



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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 4:49 PM   
John Redman


 

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Status: online 		As Bob said, any trim iron will work fine. Hangar 9, monokote, any or them.

I sprayed the flat clear before so the pencil would have something to grab onto and show the line compared to striaght plastic covering.

If you are happy with your lines, then just rivet. You do not need to clear the rivets, the clear is only needed if you do the weathering I show to seal it.

I believe there are better close ups in this thread where I showed the full build thread of the model.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10906674/anchors_10906674/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#10906674

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 6:40 PM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		John, fyi. thank you for doing the tutorial. It's a good starting point for people who lack the knowledge but have the desire to create something better than just what came in the box.

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 7:11 PM   
mikes68charger


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobH

Take the cowl and sand off all the paint, you'll need to repaint it.

You dont want to rivet over the rivets that are already on the plane. You have two options. Remove the covering and recover. Then follow John's Videos and use his method to detail. Or leave the rivets etc. as they are. That is unless you can remove them via alcohol or another solvent.

A trim iron from any of the manufactures will work just fine. You'll need to make the adaptor for the brass tubing. Not a difficult chore.

FYI not to get to anal or anything but the "rivets" on the canopy should be phillip head screws and not huge.



Thanks guys I Just went to my Local Hobby store and place my order for this iron.

BobH

I know the rivits look bad, but I did not do them, Im trying to save the plane.

The marking all seem to come off with some paint thiner, so I think I will strip the whole plane down and do like shown.

I don't like the rivits on here, but  only paid $500 for this bird with DLE55 and retracts...

Also I took the cowl to the HB store and they think the white turned pink becouse that part of the cowl was orginaly red and it bleed throw.

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 10:08 PM   
mirce


 

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Status: offline 		Check this web site, maybe you find something interesting for your project...

www.nsmodelers.rs

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 10:47 PM   
JSZ



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Status: offline 		Or if you prefer you could contract the job out. I have done five of these over the past year. Completely uncover, glass, panel line and rivets and paint a scheme of your choice.



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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 10:49 PM   
JSZ



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Status: offline 		Or if you prefer you could contract the job out. I have done five of these over the past year. Completely uncover, glass, panel line and rivets and paint a scheme of your choice.



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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/30/2013 10:50 PM   
JSZ



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Status: offline 		Sorry about the double post, don't know why that happened.

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/31/2013 12:28 AM   
TTRotary


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dash7ATP

My first question would have to be is the present finish on the plane. Plastic film or paint?  If it's an ARF with a film, fon't worry about it. The only type of rivits you couild use will be on a tape of press on dry transfer. The tape looks like crap and the press on (think ProMark) will require more pressure to apply and you'll bruise the balsa underneath it.

Dash



Actually, you can dress up the film covered ARFs a bit as well, as per the pictures below. I started by ironing on the Kote for full adhesions everywhere, and then I used 1.5/16 alum tube in a small drill chuck to indent the wood and film. I used a cuticle tool for the panel lines - you want something sharp enough to make a fine mark, but not x-acto knife sharp obviously. It's not scale but it looks decent and the indents are not affected by re-ironing. The trick is really to understand how much pressure to use and to use the wood for the indent mark. Id did this freehand in about 1 hour. No big deal.



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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/31/2013 12:32 AM   
TTRotary


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dash7ATP

My first question would have to be is the present finish on the plane. Plastic film or paint?  If it's an ARF with a film, fon't worry about it. The only type of rivits you couild use will be on a tape of press on dry transfer. The tape looks like crap and the press on (think ProMark) will require more pressure to apply and you'll bruise the balsa underneath it.

Dash



Actually, you can dress up the film covered ARFs a bit as well, as per the pictures below. I started by ironing on the Kote for full adhesions everywhere, and then I used 1.5/16 alum tube in a small drill chuck to indent the wood and film. I used a cuticle tool for the panel lines - you want something sharp enough to make a fine mark, but not x-acto knife sharp obviously. It's not scale but it looks decent and the indents are not affected by re-ironing. The trick is really to understand how much pressure to use and to use the wood for the indent mark. Id did this freehand in about 1 hour. No big deal.



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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/31/2013 1:07 AM   
BobH


 

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Status: offline 		That looks pretty good to me.. Good technique and good job.

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/31/2013 1:48 AM   
aircraftbuilder67


 

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Status: offline 		I would like to add that I watched Mr. Redman's videos on panel lines, rivets and weathering several times before going for it on my 47.  I have the 1.50 version that pre-dates the current 30 cc version and is OD on top and grey on the underside vs. the current aluminum.  So far, I think I can report success and very satisfying results.  When I first started spray painting the flat coat and scribing, I was quite nervous.  This is the first time I have detailed out a plane, but the videos couldn't have been done any better in teaching and demonstrating the techniques.  One thing I have tried and liked was using the stainless steel ruler laid on the wing when doing the rivets which allowed me to make straight rivet lines and as a bonus, the ruler gradations allowed me to have some semblance of consistant distance between the rivets.  I used a low power soldering iron that had a screw in tip to do the riveting.  I removed the tip and used successively smaller K&S brass tubes to get down to the size I wanted for the rivets.  For the 1/6 P-47, a 0.250" rivet is about 0.041" as per the video.  I think the tube I am using is about 0.062" and the next larger OD for the larger fasteners.  Good luck!



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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/31/2013 3:15 AM   
essyou35


 

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Status: offline 		You can get cracks like that if you dont wait long enough for a coat to dry before adding another.

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/31/2013 12:57 PM   
TomCrump



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quote:

ORIGINAL: essyou35

You can get cracks like that if you dont wait long enough for a coat to dry before adding another.



Or if the surface isn't properly prepared before you paint over it.

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/31/2013 1:04 PM   
redbiscuits



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quote:

ORIGINAL: mirce

Check this web site, maybe you find something interesting for your project...

www.nsmodelers.rs


Mirce's finish/detail set works very well and you don't have to burn holes in anything, damage the wood or covering, and you get constancy. It is no shortcut in riveting by any means, but the results are pretty nice. If it were me I would start over on a fresh fiberglass cowl from Fiberglass Specialties, your going to have a lot of time in sanding and re-prepping the surface for new paint.
Good Luck.

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/31/2013 1:50 PM   
mikes68charger


 

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Status: offline 		What is the diff between the fiberglass specilties and the stock TopFlite cowl?

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/31/2013 2:20 PM   
redbiscuits



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Status: offline 		Not sure if there is a size difference, you would need to ask them if it will fit the ARF, it should. Other than that it will be bare fiberglass.

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RE: Adding panel Lines and Rivits to already covered wa... - 1/31/2013 6:27 PM   
on_your_six


 

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Status: offline 		and a beautiful job he duz.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JSZ

Or if you prefer you could contract the job out. I have done five of these over the past year. Completely uncover, glass, panel line and rivets and paint a scheme of your choice.





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